Thread: EV general discussion

Originally Posted by DiscoDB

With the current used car market - more like asking $16K to $22K on a vehicle that was $47K +ORC when new in 2012.

So even if selling for half this - not worthless by any measure but could be a good buy for someone wanting an affordable entry point into an EV that will just be used around town.

The point remains - yes the used car market is high at present, but electric vehicles do not become worthless after 10 years. You will also start to see companies offer aftermarket battery pack upgrades to even the older Leaf models which will give them another 10-15 years life.

I could "ask" $40K for my old Jag and you could say a 1976 XJ6 is worth $40K - but it's not...

Originally Posted by Homestar

I could "ask" $40K for my old Jag and you could say a 1976 XJ6 is worth $40K - but it's not...

Economically speaking what some one is prepared to pay is the price. Items selling 1000% + more than they cost when brand new is not that rare. Things selling for a faction of what they cost is also not rare Rather common really

The changes coming have always left "Stranded assets" behind in hands of people who think they got it Cheap My current and about to be new EV will be very much outdated IF solid state batteries and all the dozen plus battery gigafactories start output they loudly promise.

Noting of course Britishvolt. They are now apparently "Australia-based company Recharge Industries will take over collapsed battery maker Britishvolt after finalising a deal with administrators"

Gent up the road with several classic Lanndrovers is likely to appreciate them more than the $$$ they may or may not be worth.

My temporary wheels will be a new 2023 MG XS ev long range OR a MG4 ev long range. The latter is a rear wheel drive. The polestar test was for some one with more money than me who does not want a 4wd/3.5 tonne towing option

Slightly interested to note the MG4 has a 500kg tow rating.

Edit- PWC report on Gigafactories and raw materials is interesting

Originally Posted by Homestar

I could "ask" $40K for my old Jag and you could say a 1976 XJ6 is worth $40K - but it's not...

You could and you may be surprised what you do get for it - but even if you sold it for $4K it certainly is not worthless.

EV’s depreciate like all cars - but they don’t become worthless after 10 years. Battery life is proving to be better than expected with EV’s - especially if trickle charged and kept between 20-80% - with 12-15 years battery life now being expected if looked after correctly.

Like all used cars, a second hand EV can in fact be an excellent value purchase as long as the battery has not been abused.

And if you do plan to keep an EV for more than 12-15 years, then replacement batteries means you can keep that EV going for another 12-15 years. 200-250K km battery life and 400-500K km car life is proving to be easily achievable with EV’s if looked after.

I’m sure all the Nissan Leaf owners with stuffed battery packs that are just out of warranty and an OEM that doesn’t care less and sends them a quote for $30K for a new battery on a car that cost $50K when new 5 years ago may disagree with you, but each to their own.

Homestar - plenty of Disco owners would feel the same way with a $40K bill from LR to replace the 3.0 TDV6. Doesn’t mean most people had the same experience or a D4 becomes worthless because of the experience of the minority.

You are comparing a first generation battery technology and set up that is just not used anymore. Those early failures with the 2011-2012 Leafs were mostly in hot climates with a battery which had no cooling or active thermal management. Problems that have since be solved.

Was also a time when batteries cost 4-5 times more to make compared to what they cost today. Even a first generation Leaf can have its battery replaced for a lot less than what was paid 5 years ago.

You have been pushing the case for 3 years now that EVs become worthless after 7 years and 100,000kms and for this reason you should not buy.

It is just not true - just look at the used car market for 2014 Tesla’s to see how they hold value. 8 year old Tesla’s hold their values the same as an 8 year old Discovery and would be much cheaper to run and maintain.

I like this following diagram which shows what to expect with EV battery life if set up and looked after correctly. The chart shows the upper range, whilst the lower range of expectations (which is typically what is guaranteed) is half this.



Ideally you want your battery management to keep in the 20%-80% change range for at least the first 150,000kms. Software updates then should start to limit the upper charging capacity to protect the battery life. By 225,000kms, you have lost the upper buffer capacity and the loss in driving range starts to fall off quicker.

Tesla owners report even better data and battery life expectancy than the chart above. Real user data collected by a group of 350 Tesla owners show on average they see less than 5% degradation over the first 75,000 kms, and around 10% battery degradation over the first 250,000kms.

Tesla batteries are expected to last at least 1500 charging cycles, and many owners expect the batteries to last up to 500,000kms which will probably out last the car. How you manage the charging cycles has a big influence on this.

The data does show you do get outliers that don’t get these results - superfast charging in hot climates is one likely explanation for this.





Of course don’t expect these results from the first generation Nissan’s. They are at the other end of the spectrum and see much higher degradation rates. Teslas have a much more advanced battery management system, and use better technology. Even the humble MG ZS EV uses better technology and battery management than the first generation Nissan Leaf.

Originally Posted by DiscoDB

I like this following diagram which shows what to expect with EV battery life if set up and looked after correctly. The chart shows the upper range, whilst the lower range of expectations (which is typically what is guaranteed) is half this.



Ideally you want your battery management to keep in the 20%-80% change range for at least the first 150,000kms. Software updates then should start to limit the upper charging capacity to protect the battery life. By 225,000kms, you have lost the upper buffer capacity and the loss in driving range starts to fall off quicker.

Tesla owners report even better data and battery life expectancy than the chart above. Real user data collected by a group of 350 Tesla owners show on average they see less than 5% degradation over the first 75,000 kms, and around 10% battery degradation over the first 250,000kms.

Tesla batteries are expected to last at least 1500 charging cycles, and many owners expect the batteries to last up to 500,000kms which will probably out last the car. How you manage the charging cycles has a big influence on this.

The data does show you do get outliers that don’t get these results - superfast charging in hot climates is one likely explanation for this.





Of course don’t expect these results from the first generation Nissan’s. They are at the other end of the spectrum and see much higher degradation rates. Teslas have a much more advanced battery management system, and use better technology. Even the humble MG ZS EV uses better technology and battery management than the first generation Nissan Leaf.

When Apple started limiting battery life as you describe the public screamed blue bloody murder!

If my ICE vehicle de-rated 5% in 75,000km I’d be furious.

Originally Posted by Homestar

I think expecting any new MG to be worth more than scrap value (ICE or EV) after 10 years is wishful thinking IMO…

Even straight off the showroom, why people buy these ****boxes is beyond me.