Defenders on "Car Sales."

[steane]

Yes I think most would agree Ozscott. Most would see replacement due to imminent failure of a critical part of the engine as unreliability.

Many Defender owners are used to doing major 'maintenance', but most people would not classify an engine-out bearing replacement as DIY.

It's not an engine out job and takes less time than adjusting the valve clearances on the latest Mitsubishi diesels (for example). Head gasket on a 300Tdi takes less time...

But see it how you want to, it's just my opinion, although I had to laugh at maintenance being described as oil changes...

On the way to 300k kms in a modern diesel you'd be;

Replacing injectors
Coolant changes and radiator maintenance
Fuel filters x lots
Valve clearances in some cases (big job)
etc
etc

And no, Defenders are not safe cars. Not by today's standards, not by a long shot.

[donh54]

Yes I think most would agree Ozscott. Most would see replacement due to imminent failure of a critical part of the engine as unreliability.

Many Defender owners are used to doing major 'maintenance', but most people would not classify an engine-out bearing replacement as DIY.
But you still get into an aeroplane with your family, even though they are so unreliable (by your definition) that the engines are subject to a complete teardown and rebuild every X number of hours, whether they "need" it or not. It's called maintenance.
Like top fuel drag racing, every so many runs, you replace the conrods. If their MTBF is 10 runs, replacing them at 8 is good sense.

[Zeros]

All good points...so reliability is about maintenance, but also about perceptions as to what is standard maintenance and what is failure.

I didn't think I should need a new clutch at only 70,000 km (no towing) but because my rear main seal 'failed' and was replaced twice! The second time it was deemed a new clutch was also needed as clutch springs had 'failed' and the clutch is seen as a consumable so no warranty on that part.

Many would see all of the above as another string of failures in a low km Land Rover. As I've owned Defenders for a long time, I don't, but perhaps it's just what I'm used to?.

Enjoying the discussion. Cheers guys.

[manic]

Haha. I love Land Rovers but these last few posts are showing why some other makes owners take the **** out of LR owners. I mean really a rebuild using new main bearings, head gaskets etc is hardly maintenance. Maintainence is an oil change. Replacement due to imminent failure of a critical part of an engine is somewhat different. Ned Kelly's / Grandad's axe analogy is coming to mind. It's a bit hard to keep a straight face and say it's so reliable I have done 300k with just maintenance...

CheersHardly.

My comments were made from experience owning a TDI and rolling it past half a million km

Main bearing shells on a TDI are sacrificial, eventually they are due to be replaced. Most people dont own them long enough to get there. On a TDI the procees is almost as easy as popping off the sump and rotating some new ones in place of old. The shells are cheap.

Head gaskets are consumable, you replace them when they go. Easy for DIY so piece of **** for any mechanic. Gasket is cheap and they seem to be weaker around the 250k mark so you could change it as you would a timing belt. Or you could wait for it pop.

My point was that on some engines the required maintanence at high mileage is reasonable and on others it is not.

Some people own a new motor for 5 years and sell on at under 200k km. If the engine does not stray from its service schedule during that time then they would consider it reliable.

We are talking about the second hand market for defenders where km can be HIGH. Based on my experience I would still buy a 300-400k TDI engine and be confident that it has another cheap and cheerful 200k left in it. Would I be as confident with a 400k TDV6/puma engine? Less is known so not so sure.

To add something else to the mix when considering prices. The older defenders have less restrictions when it comes to engine conversions. I think the older ones will be highly sought after when the market sees the potential in rebuild/restore.

[ozscott]

I'm just about to do a little spot of maintenance on my D2 at 330k. Just need to pop inside the transfer case and replace all.the bearings before catastrophic failure...at least then I can say it's all original and only requires maintenance. Meanwhile my mate with the untouched Toyota transfer case in the 75 series with same miles and zero noise etc is probably thinking wow what a gr8 vehicle...only needs maintenance. Got them fooled.

Just keep up that maintenance and you will.never need a whole new anything. So if rings need changing because they are colapsing that would be maintenance too? When I replaced the head gaskets on my D2 4.6 that was maintenance...if I replace.them every 100k they will never blow.

Cheers

[steane]

Hardly.

My comments were made from experience owning a TDI and rolling it past half a million km

Main bearing shells on a TDI are sacrificial, eventually they are due to be replaced. Most people dont own them long enough to get there. On a TDI the procees is almost as easy as popping off the sump and rotating some new ones in place of old. The shells are cheap.

Head gaskets are consumable, you replace them when they go. Easy for DIY so piece of **** for any mechanic. Gasket is cheap and they seem to be weaker around the 250k mark so you could change it as you would a timing belt. Or you could wait for it pop.

My point was that on some engines the required maintanence at high mileage is reasonable and on others it is not.

Some people own a new motor for 5 years and sell on at under 200k km. If the engine does not stray from its service schedule during that time then they would consider it reliable.

We are talking about the second hand market for defenders where km can be HIGH. Based on my experience I would still buy a 300-400k TDI engine and be confident that it has another cheap and cheerful 200k left in it. Would I be as confident with a 400k TDV6/puma engine? Less is known so not so sure.

To add something else to the mix when considering prices. The older defenders have less restrictions when it comes to engine conversions. I think the older ones will be highly sought after when the market sees the potential in rebuild/restore.


In 2 years time the first of the 300tdis will comply with the North American DOT 25 year rule. Watch the prices of original chassis/engine examples (even those with their main bearings replaced!) go north then. This will bump the prices of the dung heaps (98 per cent of all 300tdis by now) as the importers will be looking to rebuild, but only those that are mostly original (chassis/drivetrain). Defender prices in the US are going up and up.

You can now pay US$1,500.00 a day to drive a vintage Defender!

I'm sending invoices to my mates for the times they've spent out on the tracks in mine.

http://media.landrover.com/en-us/news/2017/09/land-rover-celebrates-iconic-defender-new-land-rover-experience-center-heritage

[Jake93]

Someone needs to tell this bloke to go get his head read 😂😂 my favorite part is the 'price is firm' bit. Lol good luck mate
http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/1161333815?utm_campaign=socialbuttons&utm_content=app_ios&utm_medium=social&utm_source=sms

[Zeros]

It looks like an immaculate Defender, low kms, leather, etc ...it's actually not far off an equivalent price to other large HD 4x4 Wagons on the market with equivalent kms eg, Tojo 76, G Wagen. ...if he's not in a hurry, prices for immaculate Defenders are probably going to rise.

[Robmacca]

Someone needs to tell this bloke to go get his head read 😂😂 my favorite part is the 'price is firm' bit. Lol good luck mate
http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/1161333815?utm_campaign=socialbuttons&utm_content=app_ios&utm_medium=social&utm_source=sms

Interesting.... as the years go on these low mileage Defenders will start having some problems I reckon from not being driven.... Seals drying up and things starting to leak, etc.

Will the price continue to rise then? Will depend on the buyer/s.....

[donh54]

If the new Deefers are any good, the "old" ones will drop in price, I reckon. Then all the yuppies that bought them as an "investment" will start off-loading theirs, and they'll drop even more! Then I might be able to afford one!

[Pickles2]

If the new Deefers are any good, the "old" ones will drop in price, I reckon. Then all the yuppies that bought them as an "investment" will start off-loading theirs, and they'll drop even more! Then I might be able to afford one!
I agree that the future value of "öur" Defenders will very much depend on how good the "new" one is. I also think that what seems to be an ever increasing gap from our last production to introduction of the new one, can't do "üs" any harm either.
Pickles.

[incisor]

I agree that the future value of "öur" Defenders will very much depend on how good the "new" one is. I also think that what seems to be an ever increasing gap from our last production to introduction of the new one, can't do "üs" any harm either.
Pickles.
I believe you've hit the nail on the head mr pickles...

I have been watching for 2 years for the right vehicle to pop up at a price point I am prepared to pay.

the silly season seems to be abating and the pricing in the segment of the market I was peering into is now at the level I believe it will not sink below...

been a long wait :p

hopefully someone won't rain on my parade .....

[Classic88]

All classics seem to have shot up in value over the last 12-18 months (I've been looking at 60s Alfas and similar) which is worrying as it always happens before a crash particularly housing as people start divesting into other 'investments'.

[Graekynn]

What about this little gem? Looks like a hipster threw up all over it :P

We've taken a wrong turn (https://www.carsales.com.au/private/details/Land-Rover-Defender-2016/SSE-AD-4979872/?Cr=0)

[ninetubes]

What about this little gem? Looks like a hipster threw up all over it :P

We've taken a wrong turn (https://www.carsales.com.au/private/details/Land-Rover-Defender-2016/SSE-AD-4979872/?Cr=0)

yes, curated by a bogan under the instruction of "money is no object, but keep it classy..." each to their own i suppose, but it's not for me. Especially for that money!

[Zeros]

I agree that the future value of "öur" Defenders will very much depend on how good the "new" one is. I also think that what seems to be an ever increasing gap from our last production to introduction of the new one, can't do "üs" any harm either.
Pickles.

Absolutely and also whatever price point the new Defender is introduced at... but going by LRA's current pricing I cant see it being under $60K starting price and possibly higher. Previous Defenders were always the under-priced bargains of the HD 4x4 world IMO. I can't see prices for excellent examples of the outgoing classic coming down. ...not many low km Tojo 76 wagons for under $70-75K and they're boring run of the mill, cart sprung dinosaurs compared to Defender? [bigwhistle]

(by the way, anyone who thinks a car is a safe investment is bonkers).

[Pickles2]

Huge dollars, can't see it selling for that sort of money.
Pickles.

[DeanoH]

What about this little gem? Looks like a hipster threw up all over it :P

We've taken a wrong turn (https://www.carsales.com.au/private/details/Land-Rover-Defender-2016/SSE-AD-4979872/?Cr=0)

Doesn't look too bad from the outside, paint the bash plate and grille surround black and get rid of the silly number plate and it looks pretty good. But the interior ............................ totally binable IMO [bigsmile]

What is that horrible looking piece of Thule plastic over the spare wheel ??

Deano :)

[Zeros]

What about this little gem? Looks like a hipster threw up all over it :P

We've taken a wrong turn (https://www.carsales.com.au/private/details/Land-Rover-Defender-2016/SSE-AD-4979872/?Cr=0)

Fugly.

[austastar]

Hi,
The laser jammer is illegal in Tas.
Cheers

[dawsey]

What about this little gem? Looks like a hipster threw up all over it :P

We've taken a wrong turn (https://www.carsales.com.au/private/details/Land-Rover-Defender-2016/SSE-AD-4979872/?Cr=0)

I like the wheels, the seats looks like a sad clown.

[fitzy]

Is this the owners?
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171007/31dcc1e4dfed56693c4bcddc22d1469a.png

[ozscott]

Where is the single balloon?

[filcar]

Grays had a lot of trouble selling the last Defender they had listed, don't they will have any trouble with this one ... $9 start no reserve.

http://www.graysonline.com/lot/0001-3418909/motor-vehiclesmotor-cycles/2012-land-rover-defender-90-turbo-diesel-manual-wagon

[Pickles2]

Grays had a lot of trouble selling the last Defender they had listed, don't they will have any trouble with this one ... $9 start no reserve.

http://www.graysonline.com/lot/0001-3418909/motor-vehiclesmotor-cycles/2012-land-rover-defender-90-turbo-diesel-manual-wagon
Up to $18409?
Pickles.

[Jake93]

Saw this whilst cruising scumtree. https://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/bardon/cars-vans-utes/2012-land-rover-defender-130-ute/1163151003

Surely he's wrong, this can't be 1 of only 2 130's in all of brissy.

[Tombie]

Saw this whilst cruising scumtree. https://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/bardon/cars-vans-utes/2012-land-rover-defender-130-ute/1163151003

Surely he's wrong, this can't be 1 of only 2 130's in all of brissy.

Regardless. Anyone who pays that price - is an idiot.

[Mark130]

He might mean only two grey 2012 130's in Brissie

[Zeros]

Nice looking 130. It's still less expensive and better than an equivalent Toyota 70 series dualcab.

[ATH]

I've got an adv. on carsales and the gumnutters sites but for some reason can't now access carsales to edit it. Not sure of the problem but it doesn't matter much as there doesn't appear to be a lot of interest out there.
I get the odd offer from those who haven't bothered seeing the vehicle though...... probably they come from other owners who are having problems moving their Defeaner. [wink11]
AlanH.

[Greg4427]

I’m tempted to wait to see what the new Defender will be. I think my current 2016 110 will still be the “keeper” though. Interesting that they are slow moving on Carsales. I’d also imagine there will be a downward price correction of “old” Defenders when the newer version is released. I’ve heard that April 2018 will be the reveal!

[Beatlloydy]

I just put a deposit down from a dealer selling a 2012 90 series. It has the 2.4 diesel motor and 189000k on the clock. I paid 33k which is probably a bit more than its worth. However I had a pretty messed up IMAX as a trade and I wanted to get away with 25k changeover. I was hones up front with the dealer and I think he was pretty honest with me. I am buying it purely as a vehicle to get from a property I am purchasing to bunnings and back as I am rebuilding a shed. The property has some tricky sections even in the dry so the defender was my choice. I figured the SWB would be easier for a newbie. Hope I am correct. Not a hipster just a realist and wanted a practical vehicle.

It's my first time in a 4wd, first time on the land and first time on my own in a remote area. It's going to be hard work but fun. I hope my deeper doesn't let me down.

[Beatlloydy]

Sorry about typos. The phone does some weird autocorrect stuff 😀

[Jake93]

Grays had a lot of trouble selling the last Defender they had listed, don't they will have any trouble with this one ... $9 start no reserve.

http://www.graysonline.com/lot/0001-3418909/motor-vehiclesmotor-cycles/2012-land-rover-defender-90-turbo-diesel-manual-wagon


Looks like it ended up selling for $38,500 which is a pretty decent price for that car. I haven't seen another 2012 90 go for less than 40 and this one looked immaculate.

[filcar]

Looks like it ended up selling for $38,500 which is a pretty decent price for that car. I haven't seen another 2012 90 go for less than 40 and this one looked immaculate.

Winning bid was $35,809 plus 5.5% buyers premium would make it $37,778.50 for an unregistered car with no warranty that has to be transported to the winning buyer in NSW. Then add rego costs and I think the winner has paid over the odds at an auction. The last seven bidders were all from interstate so would probably be buying sight unseen.

The car did look like a neat and tidy unit in the photos, but I have inspected some vehicles at Grays and the photos on the site always look much better than the car does in the flesh.

[Pickles2]

Winning bid was $35,809 plus 5.5% buyers premium would make it $37,778.50 for an unregistered car with no warranty that has to be transported to the winning buyer in NSW. Then add rego costs and I think the winner has paid over the odds at an auction. The last seven bidders were all from interstate so would probably be buying sight unseen.

The car did look like a neat and tidy unit in the photos, but I have inspected some vehicles at Grays and the photos on the site always look much better than the car does in the flesh.
Can't comment on this vehicle, but yes, color photos?...they invariably tend to show a vehicle in better condition than it actually is, particularly one with a few "blemishes".
Pickles.

[Jake93]

Winning bid was $35,809 plus 5.5% buyers premium would make it $37,778.50 for an unregistered car with no warranty that has to be transported to the winning buyer in NSW. Then add rego costs and I think the winner has paid over the odds at an auction. The last seven bidders were all from interstate so would probably be buying sight unseen.

The car did look like a neat and tidy unit in the photos, but I have inspected some vehicles at Grays and the photos on the site always look much better than the car does in the flesh.


Apologies about my dyslexia [bighmmm] $35,800.

[Colmoore]

I’m tempted to wait to see what the new Defender will be. I think my current 2016 110 will still be the “keeper” though. Interesting that they are slow moving on Carsales. I’d also imagine there will be a downward price correction of “old” Defenders when the newer version is released. I’ve heard that April 2018 will be the reveal!

I don't think there will be much correction in old defenders - they are a completely different machine from what the new one will be. Look at the Tojo fj40 v the new fj thing.
Seems to me the new ones will be more disposable, more breakable, more comfortable more safe, more expensive etc etc.
I don't think I'll be buying one but I'll never say never

[Tombie]

I don't think there will be much correction in old defenders - they are a completely different machine from what the new one will be. Look at the Tojo fj40 v the new fj thing.
Seems to me the new ones will be more disposable, more breakable, more comfortable more safe, more expensive etc etc.
I don't think I'll be buying one but I'll never say never

More breakable? [emoji6]

[Colmoore]

Yes, even more breakable than a puma......

[fitzy]

This just sold https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/11/228.jpg
I had a hunch it was the dealer in Doncaster from the photos, was driving by and thought I might take a test drive [emoji20]
Sold sticker
They also had some rebadged mx5’s with arbarth badges.

[Pickles2]

This just sold https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/11/228.jpg
I had a hunch it was the dealer in Doncaster from the photos, was driving by and thought I might take a test drive [emoji20]
Sold sticker
They also had some rebadged mx5’s with arbarth badges.
Big dollars, but wow, it does look to be pretty nice,...what would its new price have been?
I think the little sports car that you noticed would be the Fiat Arbarth 124 Spyder, which is of course based on the MX5, but which has a 1.4L Turbo SOHC 4cyl engine & a different (to the MX5) 6 speed gearbox.
Pickles.

[ramblingboy42]

I’m tempted to wait to see what the new Defender will be. I think my current 2016 110 will still be the “keeper” though. Interesting that they are slow moving on Carsales. I’d also imagine there will be a downward price correction of “old” Defenders when the newer version is released. I’ve heard that April 2018 will be the reveal!

Where did you hear that Greg?

Land Rover have not released that information......

[Tote]

Big dollars, but wow, it does look to be pretty nice,...what would its new price have been?
I think the little sports car that you noticed would be the Fiat Arbarth 124 Spyder, which is of course based on the MX5, but which has a 1.4L Turbo SOHC 4cyl engine & a different (to the MX5) 6 speed gearbox.
Pickles.
My MY16 was $65K on the road with partial leather, ABS/Traction control and heated seat/screen pack. Mine's a Cab chassis though, From memory the HCPU back was about 3-4K extra

Regards,
Tote

[fitzy]

Fair price then.

[4wheeler]

I'd be interested to know what the seller supplying Doncaster Land Rover with the 130 got for the trade. The vehicle had only been in the yard for a few weeks from what I could see as I drive by there most days. When I looked up the price I had to read it twice. $80K which would purchase a V8 Toyota. Seriously! I hope the person who bought it got a good deal. It did look to be in good condition though.

They have just serviced mine so I should see what they think it is worth.[wink11]

[Greg4427]

Where did you hear that Greg?

Land Rover have not released that information......

Rumour from Defender2 (UK) forum that JLR have cleared the decks at that time for a big announcement. The new Defender is already undergoing testing in disguise under other bodies and is reportably due to be in production for 2019. The word is that April will see the release of information regarding the new Defender [smilebigeye].

[Zeros]

I'd be interested to know what the seller supplying Doncaster Land Rover with the 130 got for the trade. The vehicle had only been in the yard for a few weeks from what I could see as I drive by there most days. When I looked up the price I had to read it twice. $80K which would purchase a V8 Toyota. Seriously! I hope the person who bought it got a good deal. It did look to be in good condition though.

They have just serviced mine so I should see what they think it is worth.[wink11]

I don't understand what makes a Toyota at $80K better than a Defender at $80K? I think Defenders are worth more than Toyota 70 series.

[Tombie]

I don't understand what makes a Toyota at $80K better than a Defender at $80K? I think Defenders are worth more than Toyota 70 series.

I don’t think either of them are **worth** more than $50k NEW..

Whomever thinks that a 130DC HCPU that was $65k new is worth more than new price now - has rocks in their head..

And anyone who pays more than new price - should seek medical advice - because they’re having a momentary lapse of intelligence..

And the Toyota... ok if you don’t like your internal organs and just want to lug hay around a paddock occasionally.

[ozscott]

Well said Tombie. $50k new is about the mark and paying over that for a used one is madness.

Cheers

[Zeros]

Well said Tombie. $50k new is about the mark and paying over that for a used one is madness.

Cheers

Hey Ozscott, I'm curious, would you say the same about a Toyota 70 series? Only worth $50K? I would.

I reckon Landcruisers have always been overpriced, but the market doesn't seem to think so. ...If it's the market that determines prices, the upward correction in Defender prices shouldn't really be any surprise. Compared to a 70 series, Defender always looked like a bargain to me considering they are a superior vehicle in many ways. Which is why I went into debt to buy one for $50K before end of production. ...now second hand, 70 series and Defenders are about on par pricewise. And if you want a heavy duty 4x4 the choice is limited. I don't think either are 'worth' $80k, but that seems to be what the market is saying for immaculate, low km examples.

I very much doubt the next Defender will be only $50K. But then I guess if it's lighter duty and competing with Hilux it might be. Either way, the last of the current Defenders will continue to hold their value IMO. Time will tell.

[ozscott]

Probably. The seats in the cruiser are awful and prone to collapse. They ride hard. They are not as good off-road as a Defender when stock. Tough though.

Cheers

[Zeros]

Probably. The seats in the cruiser are awful and prone to collapse. They ride hard. They are not as good off-road as a Defender when stock. Tough though.

Cheers

Agreed. They are also not as good on road as a Puma Defender with four coils, they remain more agricultural, louder, more expensive to repair, part time 4x4, etc. The only advantages of a 70 series over Defender IMO are airbags and bigger engine if you need it (offset by fuel consumption). I value the smaller engine / better economy more highly. Tough yes, to a point, but they really rust, I've seen many fail mechanically in the desert (gearbox, diff and even engine mounts on one less than a year old! And a lower % are still on the road 20 years later.

cheers

[Vern]

Agreed. They are also not as good on road as a Puma Defender with four coils, they remain more agricultural, louder, more expensive to repair, part time 4x4, etc. The only advantages of a 70 series over Defender IMO are airbags and bigger engine if you need it (offset by fuel consumption). I value the smaller engine / better economy more highly. Tough yes, to a point, but they really rust, I've seen many fail mechanically in the desert (gearbox, diff and even engine mounts on one less than a year old! And a lower % are still on the road 20 years later.

cheersAnd there is more cabin space in the cruiser than the defender.

[Zeros]

And there is more cabin space in the cruiser than the defender.

Yes Toyota can be better for larger/ taller drivers, but load space is less in 76 wagon, while load space in a troopy is larger, but more difficult to access without side doors.

[Vern]

Yes Toyota can be better for larger/ taller drivers, but load space is less in 76 wagon, while load space in a troopy is larger, but more difficult to access without side doors.Load space isn't really the issue if you can't even fit in the car. I have tried to sit in a few pumas, i can barely get in at 6'5", would hate to have to do that every day, i would have to move the seat back, then there is even less room for my family, sucha bad design imho. This is the reason i will never get a defender, being comfortable is the first priority.

[Zeros]

Load space isn't really the issue if you can't even fit in the car. I have tried to sit in a few pumas, i can barely get in at 6'5", would hate to have to do that every day, i would have to move the seat back, then there is even less room for my family, sucha bad design imho. This is the reason i will never get a defender, being comfortable is the first priority.

Yup if I was 6'5" I wouldn't buy a Defender either! Cheers!

[ramblingboy42]

Rumour from Defender2 (UK) forum that JLR have cleared the decks at that time for a big announcement. The new Defender is already undergoing testing in disguise under other bodies and is reportably due to be in production for 2019. The word is that April will see the release of information regarding the new Defender [smilebigeye].

People have been waxing lyrical about the "new" defender since well before production ceased.
Not one post in this forum about "the new defender"... not one... has been sourced from JLR and JLR have not released one item of information about a new model.
When that occurs I will stop contradicting posts , sorry but I want facts from JLR not rumours. If we took rumour and innuendo out of this forum it would only be half the size.

[Colmoore]

Yep and if you need a dc ute the only options are 130's or 75 series tojos. The 75 is ridiculously overpriced and I met 10 owners with the Toyota v8 having injector issues - 2 of those had replaced injectors twice as have my mates with hiluxes. The 75 suspension is tough but rustic and the cars as a whole are not what they used to be I think.

[Vern]

People have been waxing lyrical about the "new" defender since well before production ceased.
Not one post in this forum about "the new defender"... not one... has been sourced from JLR and JLR have not released one item of information about a new model.
When that occurs I will stop contradicting posts , sorry but I want facts from JLR not rumours. If we took rumour and innuendo out of this forum it would only be half the size.Any jlr are members of this forum?
I was told by someone that works for jlr that its release is 2019. They also told me a few other things but i will wait and see if that eventuates.

[Vern]

Yep and if you need a dc ute the only options are 130's or 75 series tojos. The 75 is ridiculously overpriced and I met 10 owners with the Toyota v8 having injector issues - 2 of those had replaced injectors twice as have my mates with hiluxes. The 75 suspension is tough but rustic and the cars as a whole are not what they used to be I think.I've met a few that have had clutch issues, one has had 3 front diffs, now has a hybrid patrol diff in it.

Well they aren't the only duel cab utes on the market, but they are the only duel cab that looks like it still belongs in the 60's.

[Greg4427]

That HCPU at Doncaster is still for sale on CarSales.

[Pickles2]

Load space isn't really the issue if you can't even fit in the car. I have tried to sit in a few pumas, i can barely get in at 6'5", would hate to have to do that every day, i would have to move the seat back, then there is even less room for my family, sucha bad design imho. This is the reason i will never get a defender, being comfortable is the first priority.
Lol!!...6'5"?!!...My son in law is 6'8", and He really LOVES our 90, but He simply CANNOT get behind the wheel to drive it!
Pickles.

[4wheeler]

I don't understand what makes a Toyota at $80K better than a Defender at $80K? I think Defenders are worth more than Toyota 70 series.

I don't think I said the Toyota was better value than a Defender but for me 80K for a used 130 is over-priced. I think Toyotas are over-priced as well and like all 4x4's, have their issues. If others are happy to pay that sort of money then good luck to them. I might be wrong but I feel that if I sat a non-Defender/ Land Rover fan in a Defender which cost 80K used, took them for a drive and then told them what I paid, they might have a slight chuckle to themselves.

I can't complain about the high prices as I have a low km 2.2 Puma 110 and if they stay high that is great. I look at the prices being asked though and the movie "The Castle" comes to mind.

[Zeros]

I don't think I said the Toyota was better value than a Defender but for me 80K for a used 130 is over-priced. I think Toyotas are over-priced as well and like all 4x4's, have their issues. If others are happy to pay that sort of money then good luck to them. I might be wrong but I feel that if I sat a non-Defender/ Land Rover fan in a Defender which cost 80K used, took them for a drive and then told them what I paid, they might have a slight chuckle to themselves.

I can't complain about the high prices as I have a low km 2.2 Puma 110 and if they stay high that is great. I look at the prices being asked though and the movie "The Castle" comes to mind.

[thumbsupbig][bigrolf]

[4wheeler]

Zeros,
There is a nice looking MY07 with 77,000km on it for around $48,000. If it has been looked after, I think that could be better value as you get all the joy of a 130 with a decreased potential to lose heaps if the prices drop when/if the mythical replacement Defender actually comes on line and proves to be a good replacement. On the other hand if the new Defender isn't much chop then the $80K for a 2016 130 might turn out to be a good long term investment.

I must admit that a 130 would be my dream Defender. My biggest problem is I'm conflicted as I enjoy driving my Defender but hate putting km's on it! Having it sit in the drive and only doing what it is designed for occasionally seems such a waste.

[D90 orkney]

Load space isn't really the issue if you can't even fit in the car. I have tried to sit in a few pumas, i can barely get in at 6'5", would hate to have to do that every day, i would have to move the seat back, then there is even less room for my family, sucha bad design imho. This is the reason i will never get a defender, being comfortable is the first priority.


Getting used to the defender seating took a while for me. I’m 6’3 and don’t have a problem fitting in my 90. The factory seats aren’t great. Since putting recaros in I feel the longer I drive the better it feels. 3-4 hour stints are a breeze.

[Vern]

Getting used to the defender seating took a while for me. I’m 6’3 and don’t have a problem fitting in my 90. The factory seats aren’t great. Since putting recaros in I feel the longer I drive the better it feels. 3-4 hour stints are a breeze.And how much leg room is in the back seat?

[D90 orkney]

And how much leg room is in the back seat?


Im in a 90. I removed my back seats [biggrin]

[Vern]

Im in a 90. I removed my back seats [biggrin]So no room then[emoji6].
I would have to fit my recaros, on rails to lift them and push the seat back further, then sell my kids because there is no way they would fit with any comfort at all.[emoji4]

[D90 orkney]

So no room then[emoji6].
I would have to fit my recaros, on rails to lift them and push the seat back further, then sell my kids because there is no way they would fit with any comfort at all.[emoji4]

Defenders can have their impracticalities. But...DEFENDER!

[Vern]

Defenders can have their impracticalities. But...DEFENDER!Yeah main impracticality, myself and family don't fit[emoji6] DEFENDER[emoji16]

[D90 orkney]

Yeah main impracticality, myself and family don't fit[emoji6] DEFENDER[emoji16]

Lol

[1nando]

Well, im going to post mine up in the next week at 69k. For my year model and kms 55-60 seems to be the going rate for a good one. Mines a LE and has all the fruit. I know it seems high but you couldn't build an equivalent at the moment (50-55k) for less the way i see it, you'd probably need an extra 10k on top of that price (69k) to get even close.

[Edo89]

Hey guys,

im in the market for a defender 130. ive seen this on carsales

We've taken a wrong turn (https://www.carsales.com.au/dealer/details/Land-Rover-Defender-2010/OAG-AD-14974989/?Cr=4)

does anyone know of this car or its history as it is on sale by a dealership so cant get any background info on it?

Thanks in advance

[Chops]

I don't know the car at all, but is this the one at Dandy?

I'm not sure, but if you get the vin, you can check its history online.

[Pickles2]

We bought Gracie, our 90, from ULR.
Just, on the spur of the moment, had a look at their website to see if anything had changed, looked at the used stock, and they've got a couple of Low Klm. 110s for around the $80K mark!
Pickles.

[Zeros]

We bought Gracie, our 90, from ULR.
Just, on the spur of the moment, had a look at their website to see if anything had changed, looked at the used stock, and they've got a couple of Low Klm. 110s for around the $80K mark!
Pickles.

Was intrigued so had a look. Now only one for $74K, low kms.

[Pickles2]

Was intrigued so had a look. Now only one for $74K, low kms.
One gone,....already?
The dearer one was a dark color?....the one left is white?,....very basic, no extras?
Still massive dollars, IMHO, but,.....the dearer one has obviously sold?
Pickles.

[Zeros]

One gone,....already?
The dearer one was a dark color?....the one left is white?,....very basic, no extras?
Still massive dollars, IMHO, but,.....the dearer one has obviously sold?
Pickles.

Yup white one only. Approx $20k above original new price. Seems to be what they're going for. Similar price to comparable Toyota Landcruiser 76.

[1nando]

Finally posted mine up;

Access Denied (https://carsales.mobi/cars/details/Land-Rover-Defender-2013/SSE-AD-5092385)

[emoji24][emoji24]

[D90 orkney]

Finally posted mine up;

Access Denied (https://carsales.mobi/cars/details/Land-Rover-Defender-2013/SSE-AD-5092385)

[emoji24][emoji24]


Beautiful 110. If I could add it to my collection I would. Wouldn't mind a 110 and a 130 in the LE, although I don't think a 130 came in LE

i don't know if could ever bring myself to sell mine. Sucks buddy

[1nando]

Beautiful 110. If I could add it to my collection I would. Wouldn't mind a 110 and a 130 in the LE, although I don't think a 130 came in LE

i don't know if could ever bring myself to sell mine. Sucks buddyHonestly mate.....devastated comes to mind.
I have to put my family before my heart on this one. Spewing.......if only i won the lotto

[D90 orkney]

Honestly mate.....devastated comes to mind.
I have to put my family before my heart on this one. Spewing.......if only i won the lotto


Yeah youre doing the the right thing mate. Just sucks. Feel for you. Great rig

[Colmoore]

Check this out!!
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/11/449.jpg

[Edo89]

I don't know the car at all, but is this the one at Dandy?

I'm not sure, but if you get the vin, you can check its history online.


Yes its from Dandy dealership on Lonsdale Rd.
Might give that a shot.

[Robmacca]

Can this be for Real !!! We've taken a wrong turn (https://www.carsales.com.au/dealer/details/_/OAG-AD-15335585?WT.seg_4=AutoAlert;PCAA&sdmvc=1&utm_campaign=bau&utm_medium=email&utm_source=transact&utm_content=autoalert&wt.z_driver=Email_SearchAlert?WT.seg_4=AutoAlert)

652625kms for the small amount of $59,990..... really ???
2013 Land Rover Defender Manual 4x4 MY13Dealer Car - Used


https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/11/657.jpg (https://www.carsales.com.au/gallery/OAG-AD-15335585/Image?index=0&wt.z_driver=Email_SearchAlert?WT.seg_4=AutoAlert) 15
6 people recently viewed
✕ (https://www.carsales.com.au/dealer/details/_/OAG-AD-15335585?WT.seg_4=AutoAlert;PCAA&sdmvc=1&utm_campaign=bau&utm_medium=email&utm_source=transact&utm_content=autoalert&wt.z_driver=Email_SearchAlert?WT.seg_4=AutoAlert#)



https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/11/658.jpg (https://www.carsales.com.au/gallery/OAG-AD-15335585/image?WT.seg_4=AutoAlert%3bPCAA&sdmvc=1&utm_campaign=bau&utm_medium=email&utm_source=transact&utm_content=autoalert&wt.z_driver=Email_SearchAlert%3fWT.seg_4%3dAutoAle rt&index=1&initialMediaType=Image&wt.z_driver=Email_SearchAlert?WT.seg_4=AutoAlert)
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/11/659.jpg (https://www.carsales.com.au/gallery/OAG-AD-15335585/image?WT.seg_4=AutoAlert%3bPCAA&sdmvc=1&utm_campaign=bau&utm_medium=email&utm_source=transact&utm_content=autoalert&wt.z_driver=Email_SearchAlert%3fWT.seg_4%3dAutoAle rt&index=2&initialMediaType=Image&wt.z_driver=Email_SearchAlert?WT.seg_4=AutoAlert)
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/11/660.jpg (https://www.carsales.com.au/gallery/OAG-AD-15335585/image?WT.seg_4=AutoAlert%3bPCAA&sdmvc=1&utm_campaign=bau&utm_medium=email&utm_source=transact&utm_content=autoalert&wt.z_driver=Email_SearchAlert%3fWT.seg_4%3dAutoAle rt&index=3&initialMediaType=Image&wt.z_driver=Email_SearchAlert?WT.seg_4=AutoAlert)
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/11/661.jpg (https://www.carsales.com.au/gallery/OAG-AD-15335585/image?WT.seg_4=AutoAlert%3bPCAA&sdmvc=1&utm_campaign=bau&utm_medium=email&utm_source=transact&utm_content=autoalert&wt.z_driver=Email_SearchAlert%3fWT.seg_4%3dAutoAle rt&index=4&initialMediaType=Image&wt.z_driver=Email_SearchAlert?WT.seg_4=AutoAlert)
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/11/662.jpg (https://www.carsales.com.au/gallery/OAG-AD-15335585/image?WT.seg_4=AutoAlert%3bPCAA&sdmvc=1&utm_campaign=bau&utm_medium=email&utm_source=transact&utm_content=autoalert&wt.z_driver=Email_SearchAlert%3fWT.seg_4%3dAutoAle rt&index=5&initialMediaType=Image&wt.z_driver=Email_SearchAlert?WT.seg_4=AutoAlert)






$59,990
Drive Away
(https://www.carsales.com.au/pricing/PriceModal?ShowEGC=True&ShowDAP=True&ShowPOA=False)


652,625 kmODOMETER


SUVBODY TYPE


ManualTRANSMISSION


4cyl 2.2L Turbo DieselENGINE

[1nando]

Can this be for Real !!! We've taken a wrong turn (https://www.carsales.com.au/dealer/details/_/OAG-AD-15335585?WT.seg_4=AutoAlert;PCAA&sdmvc=1&utm_campaign=bau&utm_medium=email&utm_source=transact&utm_content=autoalert&wt.z_driver=Email_SearchAlert?WT.seg_4=AutoAlert)

652625kms for the small amount of $59,990..... really ???
2013 Land Rover Defender Manual 4x4 MY13Dealer Car - Used


https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/11/657.jpg (https://www.carsales.com.au/gallery/OAG-AD-15335585/Image?index=0&wt.z_driver=Email_SearchAlert?WT.seg_4=AutoAlert) 15
6 people recently viewed
✕ (https://www.carsales.com.au/dealer/details/_/OAG-AD-15335585?WT.seg_4=AutoAlert;PCAA&sdmvc=1&utm_campaign=bau&utm_medium=email&utm_source=transact&utm_content=autoalert&wt.z_driver=Email_SearchAlert?WT.seg_4=AutoAlert#)



https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/11/658.jpg (https://www.carsales.com.au/gallery/OAG-AD-15335585/image?WT.seg_4=AutoAlert%3bPCAA&sdmvc=1&utm_campaign=bau&utm_medium=email&utm_source=transact&utm_content=autoalert&wt.z_driver=Email_SearchAlert%3fWT.seg_4%3dAutoAle rt&index=1&initialMediaType=Image&wt.z_driver=Email_SearchAlert?WT.seg_4=AutoAlert)
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/11/659.jpg (https://www.carsales.com.au/gallery/OAG-AD-15335585/image?WT.seg_4=AutoAlert%3bPCAA&sdmvc=1&utm_campaign=bau&utm_medium=email&utm_source=transact&utm_content=autoalert&wt.z_driver=Email_SearchAlert%3fWT.seg_4%3dAutoAle rt&index=2&initialMediaType=Image&wt.z_driver=Email_SearchAlert?WT.seg_4=AutoAlert)
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/11/660.jpg (https://www.carsales.com.au/gallery/OAG-AD-15335585/image?WT.seg_4=AutoAlert%3bPCAA&sdmvc=1&utm_campaign=bau&utm_medium=email&utm_source=transact&utm_content=autoalert&wt.z_driver=Email_SearchAlert%3fWT.seg_4%3dAutoAle rt&index=3&initialMediaType=Image&wt.z_driver=Email_SearchAlert?WT.seg_4=AutoAlert)
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/11/661.jpg (https://www.carsales.com.au/gallery/OAG-AD-15335585/image?WT.seg_4=AutoAlert%3bPCAA&sdmvc=1&utm_campaign=bau&utm_medium=email&utm_source=transact&utm_content=autoalert&wt.z_driver=Email_SearchAlert%3fWT.seg_4%3dAutoAle rt&index=4&initialMediaType=Image&wt.z_driver=Email_SearchAlert?WT.seg_4=AutoAlert)
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/11/662.jpg (https://www.carsales.com.au/gallery/OAG-AD-15335585/image?WT.seg_4=AutoAlert%3bPCAA&sdmvc=1&utm_campaign=bau&utm_medium=email&utm_source=transact&utm_content=autoalert&wt.z_driver=Email_SearchAlert%3fWT.seg_4%3dAutoAle rt&index=5&initialMediaType=Image&wt.z_driver=Email_SearchAlert?WT.seg_4=AutoAlert)






$59,990
Drive Away
(https://www.carsales.com.au/pricing/PriceModal?ShowEGC=True&ShowDAP=True&ShowPOA=False)


652,625 kmODOMETER


SUVBODY TYPE


ManualTRANSMISSION


4cyl 2.2L Turbo DieselENGINE



I thought pumas blow up at 200,000kms? Well the td5 and 300 tdi owners will all scream typo.
As for the price; i think it reflects the owners amazing experiences, but i don't knpw who'll pay for those.

[Ancient Mariner]

470 k per day 7 days aweek:Rolling:

[ATH]

Looks like someone inadvertently added a "6" to the front of the mileage! Appears to me that there's some fancy prices out there but are they really seeling? I've had some interest for mine which others who know it say "Why so cheap?" maybe the answer is there's not that much money around or the fancy prices are just dreams.
AlanH.

[Tombie]

I think you may be on it Alan.
Whilst they may sell and disappear from Carsales etc, you’ll often never know how much the price was dropped to move it on...

[ozscott]

For regular cars, basic Commodores, Honda etc the average reduction of advertised price to sale price is only about 3 percent...but that is out the window on more unique vehicles or cases like the Defender where heaps of people have hyped it all up. The actual sales prices of some of these would be good to know but I would bet that the actual sale prices would be way down on advertised price. Honestly the advertised prices for a lot of second hand Defender of late are just silly. You wouldn't feel that warm glow paying anything like asking price.

Cheers

[Pickles2]

Well, I reckon the seller will need some "luck" with this one,....just noticed a "new" Heritage, albeit with only 38 klms on the clock,...at $115K!!..I don't think so.
Pickles.

[Mark130]

Alf Barbagallo still hasn't sold his 'special' either, listed at $114k. I thought I saw it a couple of months ago for $125k. I'd prefer the heritage, or maybe the $$

[Grappler]

My son just sold his 2015 90 for $4000 more than he paid
Good luck to him, but sadly one less Landrover in the family
Didnt like the poor service with Perth dealers and now he has a Ranger?

[ATH]

I've dropped our 110s price as far as I'm going. It's a top car only being sold because of my sometimes failure to change gear due to joint probs. I'll gradually put back in all the stuff I took out and we'll use it as our main off road vehicle.
Faultless vehicle which we've made even better by doing the necessary like new half shafts and driven ends etc.
I'll keep it on carsales for now just in case but Xmas is a hard time to sell something like a Defender I think.
AlanH.

[danny_]

I sold my 2014 90 for $49k at the start of the week and it has 80,000km on it, My asking price was $53k and i think the new owner will be happy with it.

[BlackD90]

Hey mate,
what options did you have on it? very curious, as I'm selling mine at the moment.


I sold my 2014 90 for $49k at the start of the week and it has 80,000km on it, My asking price was $53k and i think the new owner will be happy with it.

[danny_]

Snorkel, Terrafirma bull bar and drawer in the rear.
I bought it for $40k 1 year 3 days ago and put $30,000km on it.

[cuppabillytea]

Snorkel, Terrafirma bull bar and drawer in the rear.
I bought it for $40k 1 year 3 days ago and put $30,000km on it.

Which begs the question: Where to now Danny?

[Zeros]

I suspect that if people are paying prices higher than they were two years ago new, they are less likely to say what they paid. If they got a 'good' price they might be more likely to say. So maybe the higher prices are where the market's at? Excluding the $100+K limiters, which is really speculation.

I still think all Defenders were under priced for years, compared to Toyota 70 series and now they are generally equivalent on the second hand market which I reckon is about right.

[BlackD90]

I'm confused, you sold your 90 with those extras for 49K or 40k???



Snorkel, Terrafirma bull bar and drawer in the rear.
I bought it for $40k 1 year 3 days ago and put $30,000km on it.

[Chops]

He got 9G more for it, basically a year later,, even after putting an extra 30K on it. Not a bad little investment package 😏

[danny_]

I'm confused, you sold your 90 with those extras for 49K or 40k???

Sold for 49 bought for 40 a year ago.
Sorry yesterday was a long day.

[danny_]

Which begs the question: Where to now Danny?


Perentie :)
I can't wait for the sweaty bum crack to appear.

[ozscott]

There is some craziness in the air that's 4 sure...
Cheers

[ATH]

Don't have to be crazy to buy mine, just need to have a good vehicle that's been well over serviced and had many improvements done. Luckily I can wait until a genuine buyers comes along..... although the Cook doesn't care if that never happens. [bigsad]
AlanH.

[Jake93]

93 grand for a 2012? We've taken a wrong turn (https://www.carsales.com.au/private/details/Land-Rover-Defender-2012/SSE-AD-5189299/?gts=SSE-AD-5189299&gtssaleid=SSE-AD-5189299&rankingType=Spotlight)

This is getting out of hand

[ATH]

I started a thread on the "general" section (with virtually no responses) about the state of 2 Defenders I saw recently both advertised on carsales which I checked out.
No doubt both these vehicles have been through the dealers extensive checks before being putting out the front but I wouldn't touch either of them.
And they were both priced way above mine which although it has more kays on it, has probably had more attention paid to it as well especially when it comes to servicing and upgrading things like axles etc.
AlanH.

[Stinkler]

I've been keeping a close eye on carsales as Ive been in the market. It's pretty amazing how the defenders across the board are being priced. Some hefty tags about for sure.

I understand for top end, upgraded, low km cars, but the mid/lower end sees some pretty rough cars for way too much money. You'd have to drop a small fortune into some that have been well used and abused.

Still, if you look after your vehicle it shows it should hold its value!

[Zeros]

There's nothing heavy duty like a Defender on the market anymore. A low km quality Defender is better than a new Tojo 70 series and prices are reflecting that. No surprise here. What else would you buy? Happy to be corrected, but I don't see anything coming close...even a $120K G Wagen is not any better. Plus there are no wagon versions for sale anywhere.

[martnH]

I don't think defender is heavy duty.....

In fact I think most owners sell their defenders because it's not heavy duty enough/not reliable.

People are spending lots of money just because they don't trust the factory components hahaha

Prices up because city boys want them. That's all......

[martnH]

I started a thread on the "general" section (with virtually no responses) about the state of 2 Defenders I saw recently both advertised on carsales which I checked out.
No doubt both these vehicles have been through the dealers extensive checks before being putting out the front but I wouldn't touch either of them.
And they were both priced way above mine which although it has more kays on it, has probably had more attention paid to it as well especially when it comes to servicing and upgrading things like axles etc.
AlanH.Upgrade yours with led lights, makes the paint shine and perhaps paint the grill, light surounds and wheel arch GLOSSY BLACK.
And she will sell.....:D

[Zeros]

Interesting. Which 4x4 do you think is heavy duty then?

[Tombie]

Prices on Carsales don’t necessarily reflect the sale price... at all...

If somebody on here can say they got the inflated place they advertised for then perhaps there is some truth to it.

As it stands, the high price units sit advertised for a long period, I’m suggesting an interested party negotiates heavily on the list price and the sellers give in...

[martnH]

Interesting. Which 4x4 do you think is heavy duty then?I have yet come across a defender owner who is satisfied with the build quality.

Don't get me wrong. We all love our defender but deep down we all know the quality is ****, evident by the so called "preventive maintenance". I.e. replace perfectly functioning factory gear with aftermarket upgrades.

To a point one will remove a functioning transfer box just to check the adapter shaft

Heavy duty 4wd should be designed to withstand the streets of demanding use. Perhaps you mean solid beam axle?

[martnH]

Prices on Carsales don’t necessarily reflect the sale price... at all...

If somebody on here can say they got the inflated place they advertised for then perhaps there is some truth to it.

As it stands, the high price units sit advertised for a long period, I’m suggesting an interested party negotiates heavily on the list price and the sellers give in...A close friend paid $78k for his my15 110.
I told him everything about the defender and also I paid $40 for my my13 110 brand new, and he still bought it and happy
He had never been off road before then

It's just like bitcoin. People buy it because they think it has value. And then greed is involved as some started to buy it because they believe price will go up.

And what follows is people will come up with theories to support their expectation of price appreciation.

Cheers

[ATH]

"paint the grill, light surounds and wheel arch GLOSSY BLACK." Thnx. for the advice MartinH but no way would I do that. My vehicles don't need tarting up and quite frankly anyone who falls for that crap is going to be sorely disappointed when the gloss wears off those 2 vehicles I saw recently in yards.
Besides when I say it's in good condition, I mean it.
"Used well not abused to hell."
AlanH.

[Zeros]

I have yet come across a defender owner who is satisfied with the build quality.

Don't get me wrong. We all love our defender but deep down we all know the quality is ****, evident by the so called "preventive maintenance". I.e. replace perfectly functioning factory gear with aftermarket upgrades.

To a point one will remove a functioning transfer box just to check the adapter shaft

Heavy duty 4wd should be designed to withstand the streets of demanding use. Perhaps you mean solid beam axle?

No I don't, but a solid beam axle is heavy duty yes.

All brands of 4x4 vehicles have known faults and require upgrades. Some more than others.

...so back to my question, I'm genuinely interested to know - if Defender isn't heavy duty in your opinion, what vehicle is?

[DeanoH]

......................... so back to my question, I'm genuinely interested to know - if Defender isn't heavy duty in your opinion, what vehicle is?

How about one of these ? :)

134708

Australian designed and built Oka

Deano :)

[martnH]

No I don't, but a solid beam axle is heavy duty yes.

All brands of 4x4 vehicles have known faults and require upgrades. Some more than others.

...so back to my question, I'm genuinely interested to know - if Defender isn't heavy duty in your opinion, what vehicle is?Define heavy duty in your opinion
It seems reliability is not included.

I think you sounds like you want to sell.....

[Graekynn]

No I don't, but a solid beam axle is heavy duty yes.

All brands of 4x4 vehicles have known faults and require upgrades. Some more than others.

...so back to my question, I'm genuinely interested to know - if Defender isn't heavy duty in your opinion, what vehicle is?

Don't think you're going to get an answer mate [bigrolf]

[Andrew86]

It's just like bitcoin. People buy it because they think it has value. And then greed is involved as some started to buy it because they believe price will go up.

It's nothing like Bitcoin. Cryptocurrencies have limited real world utility and their true value is impossible to accurately quantify because they have no intrinsic worth. There's also the issue that nobody understands them fully. It's all pure speculation.

A Defender is a tangible asset with features and functionality that can be seen, understood and compared to other assets with similar attributes. It has true value. What we're seeing on Carsales simply demonstrates that the retail price of new Defenders was lower than market value. When Defenders were being sold brand new there was effectively a cap on prices which dictated the prices of used vehicles too. Obviously you couldn't sell a used Defender for anything near the RRP for a new one.

Now that production has ceased and the RRP cap has been removed, there's been a correction to more accurately reflect what these vehicles are actually worth and it has nothing to do with hipsters and city slickers. The cap is now the price of alternatives, of which there are very few. The Mercedes G Professional starts at $110k, the 70 Series Cruiser is $90k+, and that's about it.

A Defender might not me the most mechanically reliable or well built vehicle, but it's a heavy duty vehicle that will easily last half a century and beyond if looked after. The same can't be said for most modern vehicles which have become disposable by design.

For what it's worth, when I tell people I paid $55k for my 2016 110 the response every single time has been 'Oh is that all? I thought it would have been more than that'. That says it all, really.

[martnH]

It's nothing like Bitcoin. Cryptocurrencies have limited real world utility and their true value is impossible to accurately quantify because they have no intrinsic worth. There's also the issue that nobody understands them fully. It's all pure speculation.

A Defender is a tangible asset with features and functionality that can be seen, understood and compared to other assets with similar attributes. It has true value. What we're seeing on Carsales simply demonstrates that the retail price of new Defenders was lower than market value. When Defenders were being sold brand new there was effectively a cap on prices which dictated the prices of used vehicles too. Obviously you couldn't sell a used Defender for anything near the RRP for a new one.

Now that production has ceased and the RRP cap has been removed, there's been a correction to more accurately reflect what these vehicles are actually worth and it has nothing to do with hipsters and city slickers. The cap is now the price of alternatives, of which there are very few. The Mercedes G Professional starts at $110k, the 70 Series Cruiser is $90k+, and that's about it.

A Defender might not me the most mechanically reliable or well built vehicle, but it's a heavy duty vehicle that will easily last half a century and beyond if looked after. The same can't be said for most modern vehicles which have become disposable by design.

For what it's worth, when I tell people I paid $55k for my 2016 110 the response every single time has been 'Oh is that all? I thought it would have been more than that'. That says it all, really.I have only heard about terms like "true value" in Marxian economics. Karl Marx suggested the value of something is the labour embedded and this "true value" acted as a gravity for price (price up and down but fluctuates around this value). But nobody cares about him anymore hahaha

You may have already know this. But when we trade/exchange, we will generate a number in our mind called "willingness to pay /buy" and compared this with the price to determine whether to proceed the trade or not. In the sense everyone has a unique utility function to determine how much satisfaction (utility) we can obtain from a product, compared to its price. And this function dominates our purchasing decisions.

This "willingness to pay" has nothing to do with market price. Market price is determined by supply and demand. That's all. You may value defender as $100k because it is heavy duty etc.. But this number only matters when you are in the market as a buyer/seller. Say if you pay $60k for one, then theory says you obtain a consumer surplus of $40k. You should be happy in the sense the defender is $40k cheaper than what you would otherwise pay

Also RRP is never a "cap"..... RRP is commonly seen as a reference price. We had that reference price when defenDer was in production, under the assumption of unlimited supply.

Back to the topics, I believe the price for second hand defenders being high at the moment is because some has a appreciation expectation for these vehicles. And also current sellers assumes the potential defender buyers will use the RRP of 2016 as a reference to value second hand defender....

Nothing wrong with the prices at all....

And finally $55k will only be considered low because of the brand image of Land rover.
And that's also why Land Rover desperately want to get rid of defender and peasant owner like me [emoji14]

[martnH]

One thing interesting is that in economics, there is Veblen good or luxury goods where demand increase as prices increase. (Usually demand decrease with increased price

So what happened in the last two year suggests defender is regarded as Veblen goods by many of its new owners hehe

And the reason is these consumers think defender (now with a higher price) are more exclusive and indicate status.

Just saying...

So the said economics theory suggest that
As a seller facing buying demand a exclusive luxury product, it would be wise to paint the grill, light surrounds and wheel arch glossy black (or maybe the roof as well) and to make the defender shiny

Because the way you view the defender (probably as a capable workhorse) is vastly different from what potential buyers think


Cheers

[Tombie]

Yep. Because world taught economic theory has worked out so well in practice!

[Andrew86]

You may have already know this. But when we trade/exchange, we will generate a number in our mind called "willingness to pay /buy" and compared this with the price to determine whether to proceed the trade or not. In the sense everyone has a unique utility function to determine how much satisfaction (utility) we can obtain from a product, compared to its price. And this function dominates our purchasing decisions.

This "willingness to pay" has nothing to do with market price. Market price is determined by supply and demand. That's all. You may value defender as $100k because it is heavy duty etc.. But this number only matters when you are in the market as a buyer/seller. Say if you pay $60k for one, then theory says you obtain a consumer surplus of $40k. You should be happy in the sense the defender is $40k cheaper than what you would otherwise pay

Something is only worth what someone is willing to pay, it has everything to do with market price. You can take away all the supply in the world, but if no one is willing to pay more than $80k for a Defender then the price won’t go beyond that. To put it into your economics 101 syntax, willingness to pay is where the demand curve intersects the fixed supply line which gives you your market price. As we’re seeing with Carsales, people are willing to pay much more for a Defender than JLR ever charged and I believe this has little to do with any increases in demand. Given the lack of available substitutes, that demand curve is probably highly inelastic anyway so the quantity sold won’t change dramatically even if prices do come down a bit. It’s always been a slow market, hence why it was killed off.


Also RRP is never a "cap"..... RRP is commonly seen as a reference price. We had that reference price when defenDer was in production, under the assumption of unlimited supply.

No dealer charged more than RRP for a new Defender, even as the last available build slots diminished. RRP may only be a reference, but no Defender prior to February 2016 sold for more so it absolutely acted as a cap and that price ceiling is now gone.


Back to the topics, I believe the price for second hand defenders being high at the moment is because some has a appreciation expectation for these vehicles. And also current sellers assumes the potential defender buyers will use the RRP of 2016 as a reference to value second hand defender....


That may have driven some people to buy new Defenders leading up to the end of production, but I very much doubt anyone paying $80k for a Defender now is doing so thinking it will be worth significantly more in the future. The costs of storing and maintaining a car as cumbersome as a Defender for the time required to generate any significant return would far outweigh the costs of doing so. They’d be much better off buying an air cooled Porsche and saving the garage space.

According to my dealer, most people who bought Defenders from him in the final year of sales were repeat buyers. I was one of the few first time owners he had sold to. One guy on the list was buying his fifth!


And finally $55k will only be considered low because of the brand image of Land rover.

I disagree. The Defender is a classless vehicle that has little in common with its prestigious brothers and sisters that wear the JLR badge – no one is buying a Defender thinking they’re getting a cut-price Vogue. As I said before, and as others have mentioned repeatedly, it’s the price of substitutes that is the biggest factor.

[Andrew86]

So what happened in the last two year suggests defender is regarded as Veblen goods by many of its new owners hehe

And the reason is these consumers think defender (now with a higher price) are more exclusive and indicate status.

You're the first person I've ever known to associate Defenders with anything even resembling luxury. We're not talking about Chanel handbags here, no one steps into a Defender and feels fancy. Happy, deaf and sweaty, but not fancy. You can toss that theory straight in the bin.

[1nando]

My defender is gone. Its was picked up today by its new owner.

When we agreed on $65k he was in Israel and he had not even seen the car, put a $1000 deposit on it and i waited until today.

When he saw it for the first time he could not believe how good it looked in real life, how much work was done to it and how beautifully it drove.

After he paid the balance and got the paperwork out of the way i watched him drive out of my driveway.....its was the saddest moment ive ever felt in regards to a vehicle. I walked into the house with tears running down my face, my mrs gave me a hug and reminded me of our priorities.

Sad day[emoji24]

[Zeros]

A Defender is a tangible asset with features and functionality that can be seen, understood and compared to other assets with similar attributes. It has true value. What we're seeing on Carsales simply demonstrates that the retail price of new Defenders was lower than market value. When Defenders were being sold brand new there was effectively a cap on prices which dictated the prices of used vehicles too. Obviously you couldn't sell a used Defender for anything near the RRP for a new one.

Now that production has ceased and the RRP cap has been removed, there's been a correction to more accurately reflect what these vehicles are actually worth and it has nothing to do with hipsters and city slickers. The cap is now the price of alternatives, of which there are very few. The Mercedes G Professional starts at $110k, the 70 Series Cruiser is $90k+, and that's about it.

For what it's worth, when I tell people I paid $55k for my 2016 110 the response every single time has been 'Oh is that all? I thought it would have been more than that'. That says it all, really.

Exactly.

[Zeros]

How about one of these ? :)

134708

Australian designed and built Oka

Deano :)

Yeah the OKA is trouble free! :Rolling: ...yes heavy duty. The only remaining Australian made vehicle? Not sure

[Zeros]

Define heavy duty in your opinion
It seems reliability is not included.

I think you sounds like you want to sell.....

Pffffft....

[Zeros]

My defender is gone. Its was picked up today by its new owner.

When we agreed on $65k he was in Israel and he had not even seen the car, put a $1000 deposit on it and i waited until today.

When he saw it for the first time he could not believe how good it looked in real life, how much work was done to it and how beautifully it drove.

After he paid the balance and got the paperwork out of the way i watched him drive out of my driveway.....its was the saddest moment ive ever felt in regards to a vehicle. I walked into the house with tears running down my face, my mrs gave me a hug and reminded me of our priorities.

Sad day[emoji24]

I feel for you man. 😰

[Mittsy]

There was a nice td5 for sale few weeks back, sadly it went before I had a chance, the search continues

We've taken a wrong turn (https://www.carsales.com.au/private/details/Land-Rover-Defender-2003/SSE-AD-5157242) We've taken a wrong turn (https://www.carsales.com.au/private/details/Land-Rover-Defender-2003/SSE-AD-5157242)

[Stinkler]

There was a nice td5 for sale few weeks back, sadly it went before I had a chance, the search continues

We've taken a wrong turn (https://www.carsales.com.au/private/details/Land-Rover-Defender-2003/SSE-AD-5157242) We've taken a wrong turn (https://www.carsales.com.au/private/details/Land-Rover-Defender-2003/SSE-AD-5157242)

Damn that sounded great! Much rather a Td5 for that price than a $60-70k Puma!

[DeanoH]

Yeah the OKA is trouble free! :Rolling:

Don't really know what you're getting at here ? The Oka is basically trouble free from a design and build viewpoint though the first production models needed a bit of tweaking here and there, no different to any other vehicle really.



...yes heavy duty. The only remaining Australian made vehicle? Not sure

Alas, no more since about 5 years ago, but hold their prices well if properly maintained, very similar to the Defender really in a lot of ways.

A good choice for a heavy duty touring vehicle especially as a family tourer/camper. For the same price as a Defender you get a lot of Oka. In the right application better value for money IMO.

Deano :)

ps. Deano is biased as he owns an Oka and has owned two (older) Defenders :)

[tact]

Something is only worth what someone is willing to pay, it has everything to do with market price.


Yeah....Nah. A person (thief?) may not be willing to pay anything for an object he wants personally. The price he is willing to pay (zero) does not reduce the worth of the object to zero.

[Eevo]

Yeah....Nah. A person (thief?) may not be willing to pay anything for an object he wants personally. The price he is willing to pay (zero) does not reduce the worth of the object to zero.

there is a price he's willing to pay. he just doesnt have the money to pay it...

[tact]

there is a price he's willing to pay. he just doesnt have the money to pay it...

That is just one scenario, yours. There are other scenarios that support my assertion.

My assertion being that there are people who will want something, are not willing to pay anything for it. And the price they are willing to pay (zero) in no way changes the worth of the item.

The focus of the assertion is not on thieves or theft or ability to pay.

I'd go further and assert that that there are "things" that people don't want. Thus are not willing to pay anything for it. This too does not change the worth of the object.

All this being a counterpoint to the comment:
Originally Posted by Andrew86 https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (https://www.aulro.com/afvb/90-110-130-defender-county/232916-defenders-car-sales-post2760782.html#post2760782)
Something is only worth what someone is willing to pay, it has everything to do with market price.

[Andrew86]

Yeah....Nah. A person (thief?) may not be willing to pay anything for an object he wants personally. The price he is willing to pay (zero) does not reduce the worth of the object to zero.

If that person is the only person in the market for a Defender, it does. You can't sell it for anything, to anyone, a bit like the Lada Niva by good friend had back in the 90's. Worth, in this case, being the value of the asset if it were converted to cash.

Obviously the market for Defenders is much bigger than one person, but the same principle applies. If none of those people are willing to pay $100k then it isn't worth $100k.

[tact]

If that person is the only person in the market for a Defender, it does. You can't sell it for anything, to anyone, a bit like the Lada Niva by good friend had back in the 90's. Worth, in this case, being the value of the asset if it were converted to cash.

Obviously the market for Defenders is much bigger than one person, but the same principle applies. If none of those people are willing to pay $100k then it isn't worth $100k.

I still disagree in principle. But it comes down to semantics I guess. You want to define "worth" as whatever someone is willing to pay for it. I define worth differently.

Lets say someone might be willing to pay $1000k for a Defender. Would you say as I'd say, "I don't think its worth that"? (i.e. not worth what what someone is willing to pay for it).
If someone offered me $1M for my DCPU. And I took it. I'd be saying, "I got far more for it than what its worth".

These example pretty well illustrate why I don't equate/define "worth" as being the price someone might pay for something.

[Stinkler]

Worth is subjective, cost is not.

[Zeros]

Don't really know what you're getting at here ? The Oka is basically trouble free from a design and build viewpoint though the first production models needed a bit of tweaking here and there, no different to any other vehicle really.




Alas, no more since about 5 years ago, but hold their prices well if properly maintained, very similar to the Defender really in a lot of ways.

A good choice for a heavy duty touring vehicle especially as a family tourer/camper. For the same price as a Defender you get a lot of Oka. In the right application better value for money IMO.

Deano :)

ps. Deano is biased as he owns an Oka and has owned two (older) Defenders :)

Cheers Deano, good to hear your experience with Okas is good. I've heard of many breakdowns, trouble getting parts etc. but no more than any other brand though. So yes might be a good alternative to Defender 👍 ...how's the fuel consumption and spare parts etc in your experience?

[DeanoH]

Cheers Deano, good to hear your experience with Okas is good. I've heard of many breakdowns, trouble getting parts etc. but no more than any other brand though. So yes might be a good alternative to Defender 👍 ...how's the fuel consumption and spare parts etc in your experience?

Oka's break down just like anything else, generally from poor/neglected maintenance from my observations. Properly maintained though they are very reliable and best of all simple. No electronic crap to ruin your day/holiday :) and very easy to diagnose/fix should something play up. They're just like a large Series/Defender really, under powered with a 4 cyl Perkins 110 BHP old style diesel with the same Bosch IP as the Tdi, a rock solid Spicer/Turner 5 spd. all synchro gearbox, TC can be either a NP205 or Rockwell or Vickers HD150 (because it weighs 150 Kg :o) in later models, 4 wheel disc brakes, part time 4WD nothing special but rock solid :).

Spare parts availability is excellent as the whole vehicle uses generic off the shelf parts, it's actually easier to source parts than most vehicles because of this ie. Perkins engine is generic as :), gearbox's don't break anyway and NOS are still available anyway, drive train is all generic Dana/Spicer stuff used in many US 4WD's and so on.

Great for touring, the very long leaf spring/aeon rubber/dual shocker suspension is the best I've experienced on any off road vehicle. Not fancy but very, very effective especially on serious corrugations. Touring fuel consumption is around 16-17 litres/100 Km and doesn't change much unless you hit lots of sand or carry too much weight which is always a temptation with such a large vehicle.

Still, nothing wrong with the Defender, I've owned two and they're great. The Oka is really a Defender on steroids :) can't wait to see the 'new' Defender but can't really see it being anything other than a glorified SUV, but I live in hope :)

Deano :)

[Zeros]

Oka's break down just like anything else, generally from poor/neglected maintenance from my observations. Properly maintained though they are very reliable and best of all simple. No electronic crap to ruin your day/holiday :) and very easy to diagnose/fix should something play up. They're just like a large Series/Defender really, under powered with a 4 cyl Perkins 110 BHP old style diesel with the same Bosch IP as the Tdi, a rock solid Spicer/Turner 5 spd. all synchro gearbox, TC can be either a NP205 or Rockwell or Vickers HD150 (because it weighs 150 Kg :o) in later models, 4 wheel disc brakes, part time 4WD nothing special but rock solid :).

Spare parts availability is excellent as the whole vehicle uses generic off the shelf parts, it's actually easier to source parts than most vehicles because of this ie. Perkins engine is generic as :), gearbox's don't break anyway and NOS are still available anyway, drive train is all generic Dana/Spicer stuff used in many US 4WD's and so on.

Great for touring, the very long leaf spring/aeon rubber/dual shocker suspension is the best I've experienced on any off road vehicle. Not fancy but very, very effective especially on serious corrugations. Touring fuel consumption is around 16-17 litres/100 Km and doesn't change much unless you hit lots of sand or carry too much weight which is always a temptation with such a large vehicle.

Still, nothing wrong with the Defender, I've owned two and they're great. The Oka is really a Defender on steroids :) can't wait to see the 'new' Defender but can't really see it being anything other than a glorified SUV, but I live in hope :)

Deano :)

Hey man, thanks for your great reply. OKA's sound awesome. The stories I've heard must have ben about poorly maintained vehicles.

Intriguing that spares are so easy to source, do you have a goto online supplier? / mechanic?

Fuel consumption better than a land cruiser too. Although I do like my 10-11l / km!

What's the best year model to buy do you reckon?

[DiscoMick]

I think the Defender is certainly heavy duty. How many vehicles can be driven out of the showroom and set off around the world without needing modifications?
As for prices, they are worth what people will pay, so obviously $55,000 was too cheap, but the supply was limited by the factory and their long history meant they were still profitable for LR at 20,000 a year, whereas LR says the new one will have to sell four times that number to be profitable.
As I said to my Hilux-owning son the other day, when was the last time a Hilux appreciated in value like a Defender?

[martnH]

What is "heavy duty"?

Maybe you can drive a defender out of a show room and travel around the world but you may want to at the very minimal, replace the turbo hose, drive flange maybe also axles. Diffs may explore because of poor setup (not enough back lash) in factory. Also may be worth checking the adapter shaft (not greased). And finally you may be thinking of a remap from day 1 because we all know how a stock tdci defender drives......
And somewhere down the track, the clutch may **** itself and it may do it multiple times

By the time the defender is considered "reliable" or maybe "heavy duty", most of the factory stuffs are replaced

Some owners manage to keep the moral high and are happy to pay for such "maintenance"( towed) or "preventive maintenance (not towed) ; some do not survive, they give up so they sell

Some learn to drive the defender with "mechanical sympathy"...

I think I will consider selling the truck if clutch failed again within another 40k kms...

[filcar]

http://www.graysonline.com/lot/0001-9007860/motor-vehiclesmotor-cycles/1990-land-rover-110-tray-back-6-x-6-manual-ute-99-974-km-indicated

[Tombie]

Worth is emotive... driven by heart than head.

Humans inherent want/need to have something that only a limited number was produced is testimony to the fact we are mostly foolish. [emoji41][emoji12][emoji106]

[Zeros]

What is "heavy duty"?

Maybe you can drive a defender out of a show room and travel around the world but you may want to at the very minimal, replace the turbo hose, drive flange maybe also axles. Diffs may explore because of poor setup (not enough back lash) in factory. Also may be worth checking the adapter shaft (not greased). And finally you may be thinking of a remap from day 1 because we all know how a stock tdci defender drives......
And somewhere down the track, the clutch may **** itself and it may do it multiple times

By the time the defender is considered "reliable" or maybe "heavy duty", most of the factory stuffs are replaced

Some owners manage to keep the moral high and are happy to pay for such "maintenance"( towed) or "preventive maintenance (not towed) ; some do not survive, they give up so they sell

Some learn to drive the defender with "mechanical sympathy"...

I think I will consider selling the truck if clutch failed again within another 40k kms...

I know someone who'll take your Defender off your hands. No big deal.

My turbo hose hose is no prob, made sure I tightened the clamp when I bought it. I've replaced drive flanges $50. Replaced adapter shaft under warranty as a precaution when I had an oil leak fixed.

So... What will you buy?

Interesting info on Tojo 70...
Toyota 70 Series Landcruiser Fixes & Solutions. (http://www.4-wheeling-in-western-australia.com/toyota-70-series.html)
Gearbox/engine revs too high at 100km/hr, alternator located too low down, even the wheel track is still a problem! I've also seen 70 series clutches, diffs, gearboxes, engine mounts break within 100,000km. They have horse and cart springs, they rust more easily, they're noisier, they use twice as much fuel, they cost more to buy and maintain.

OKA's sound great, but more expensive, use more fuel. A few basic Defender mods looks like a bargain to me.

What else is there! A hummer?

[ATH]

But but but I saw a bit of a program recently saying that a Toyota (of some description) was unbreakable! Surely a commercial channel wouldn't tell lies, would they?
Went on a club run recently where one bloke has a 200 series and has had fuel system probs. fixed under warranty some years ago and he was asking if anyone knew of a reliable diesel place to check his injection etc.
He got told of one highly regarded place and he then said he didn't want to go to them in case they gave him bad news..... or words to that affect. What does he want then? The normal bull crap which he's already had from the stealers or the truth?
Amazes me how so many have stars in their eyes about their "unbreakable, unstoppable, bullet proof" vehicles yet suffer from some very serious probs.
Our boy had serious engine and transmission problems with his 200 series only fixed after much arguing with Tojo and the stealers with assistance from the local consumer affairs lot.
But deary me the uproar from the exploroz Tojo lovers was laughable when I dared mention it.
Give me a Deafener or Disco any time.
AlanH.

PS. I've got a top class Deafener for sale with all the "quirks" fixed.......

[Zeros]

...previous post not intended as Tojo bashing...just making it clear that all brands and HD vehicles have their foibles... but IMO Defender is better than others as a heavy duty 4x4.

By the way there are a few good looking Defenders on carsales, with relatively reasonable prices. Especially alongside comparable Tojo 70's (which is really the only direct competitor for Defender).

[Andrew86]

you may want to at the very minimal, replace the turbo hose, drive flange maybe also axles. Diffs may explore because of poor setup (not enough back lash) in factory. Also may be worth checking the adapter shaft (not greased). And finally you may be thinking of a remap from day 1 because we all know how a stock tdci defender drives...

Those issues are well known though, which means you can generally monitor and plan for them. As someone else has already said, fixing them doesn't cost much and it's a once-off cost on a vehicle that'll last decades longer than any modern car on the road.

Just out of interest, what do you drive and why on earth did you buy it?


Replaced adapter shaft under warranty as a precaution when I had an oil leak fixed

Just curious, how did you manage to get JLR to pay for a new adapter shaft as a precaution? Was is associated with the oil leak?

[Zeros]

Just curious, how did you manage to get JLR to pay for a new adapter shaft as a precaution? Was is associated with the oil leak?

I paid cost for adapter shaft and dealer didn't charge labour. 👍

[martnH]

I paid cost for adapter shaft and dealer didn't charge labour. [emoji106]Careful
Landy dealers hate applyong grease with a firey burning passion

[martnH]

I am thinking of buying a sprinter 4x4

Is it heavy duty? Any weakness about them?

[Zeros]

I am thinking of buying a sprinter 4x4

Is it heavy duty? Any weakness about them?

Not compared with a G Professional wagon (although they don't seem to be available in Australia yet).

It's a jacked-up delivery van, but could be great if it suits your purpose.

[1nando]

I am thinking of buying a sprinter 4x4

Is it heavy duty? Any weakness about them?Lol...according to you a defender isn't heavy duty but is a sprinter 4x4? The guy who does our welding had a sprinter and its the biggest piece of s..t hes ever owned he said. He bought it cause he wanted a "big tough" cab chassis to carry all his welding gear and ended up with constant suspension and wheel issues plus countless engine faults which cant seem to be fixed. It was so tough he got rid of it and bought a ford f150. Its doing the job no problem.

Anyone who says a defender is underpowered is missing the point of a defender! I know as ive got a 400hp patrol and i miss the defenders slow but steady "putting along". The defender is a tractor, a working vehicle and its supposed to do things as slowly as possible and as fast as necessary. You want a big horse power 4wd buy something else.

A defender is a canvas from which each individual can build their own idea of the perfect getaway vehicle providing a sense of adventure amd free spirit. Thats why they command such a great resale price. Vehicles like the defender are almost extinct and therefore if you want one you need to pay the premium.

My Patrol is better at a lot of things compared to what my defender was but let me tell you that if i had both sitting in the driveway and there was a zombie apocalypse tomorrow id take the defender every time! Why? Cause it was tough, could get me anywhere i pointed it and always got me home! I miss that car more than i missed any ex girlfriend after a breakup.....

Ps i made similar comments about how good my defender was compared to my bramd new my18 Patrol on the patrol forum and i was ridiculed and torn to shreds for making such a statement. One bloke actually told me my y62 was better offroad. I told that bloke that a y62, my mate mates twin locked and lifted gu on 35s, my mates 79 series, hilux, triton all struggled keeping up with it offroad and i was called a liar.....i eventually blew up and asked why they hated LRs so much? I eas told they were "unrelaible" yet none of them have owned one execpt one bloke who had one years ago. The bloke that owned one years ago said it was the most unrelaible car he ever had in his fleet. Maybe it was and maybe it wasn't i dont know but to judge a car cause of 1 model is unfair i think.
People love to hate defenders and can't handle the fact that a defender is better offroad than what they own....i stood my ground and will probably get banned from that forum eventually but its the truth!

My defender was and is tough. The bloke that bought it will love that vehcile and i hope i get it back one day [emoji24][emoji24][emoji24]
$65k was a bargin in my opinion.

[Andrew86]

My Patrol is better at a lot of things compared to what my defender was but let me tell you that if i had both sitting in the driveway and there was a zombie apocalypse tomorrow id take the defender every time! Why? Cause it was tough, could get me anywhere i pointed it and always got me home! I miss that car more than i missed any ex girlfriend after a breakup.....

Genuine question, why did you sell it?

[1nando]

Genuine question, why did you sell it?New responsibilities mate. Have a unfinished house reno, a growing family and I needed the cash

[martnH]

Lol...according to you a defender isn't heavy duty but is a sprinter 4x4? The guy who does our welding had a sprinter and its the biggest piece of s..t hes ever owned he said. He bought it cause he wanted a "big tough" cab chassis to carry all his welding gear and ended up with constant suspension and wheel issues plus countless engine faults which cant seem to be fixed. It was so tough he got rid of it and bought a ford f150. Its doing the job no problem.

Anyone who says a defender is underpowered is missing the point of a defender! I know as ive got a 400hp patrol and i miss the defenders slow but steady "putting along". The defender is a tractor, a working vehicle and its supposed to do things as slowly as possible and as fast as necessary. You want a big horse power 4wd buy something else.

A defender is a canvas from which each individual can build their own idea of the perfect getaway vehicle providing a sense of adventure amd free spirit. Thats why they command such a great resale price. Vehicles like the defender are almost extinct and therefore if you want one you need to pay the premium.

My Patrol is better at a lot of things compared to what my defender was but let me tell you that if i had both sitting in the driveway and there was a zombie apocalypse tomorrow id take the defender every time! Why? Cause it was tough, could get me anywhere i pointed it and always got me home! I miss that car more than i missed any ex girlfriend after a breakup.....

Ps i made similar comments about how good my defender was compared to my bramd new my18 Patrol on the patrol forum and i was ridiculed and torn to shreds for making such a statement. One bloke actually told me my y62 was better offroad. I told that bloke that a y62, my mate mates twin locked and lifted gu on 35s, my mates 79 series, hilux, triton all struggled keeping up with it offroad and i was called a liar.....i eventually blew up and asked why they hated LRs so much? I eas told they were "unrelaible" yet none of them have owned one. One guy said he had one years ago and it was the most unrelaible car he ever had in his fleet. Maybe it was i dont know but to judge a car cause of 1 model is unfair i think.
People love to hate defenders and can't handle the fact that a defender is better offroad than what they own....i stood my ground and will probably get banned from that forum eventually but its the truth!

My defender was and is tough. The bloke that bought it will love that vehcile and i hope i get it back one day [emoji24][emoji24][emoji24]
$65k was a bargin in my opinion.You win

For the record I never said defender is not heavy duty nor the sprinter is
In my opinion heavy duty means being durable, reliable and being designed to withstand demanding use.

[martnH]

Have you guys seen the latest defender?

Haha exact what I was talking about.

Defender is no longer regarded as a workhorse a utility Vehicle but a status symbol

City boys's new toy

[donh54]

Have you guys seen the latest defender?

Haha exact what I was talking about.

Defender is no longer regarded as a workhorse a utility Vehicle but a status symbol

City boys's new toy

I didn't think anyone had seen it yet?

The only pictures so far have been "artists impressions" or a few pics of a (supposed) mule that bears no relationship whatever to what the eventual sheetmetal will look like.

Unless you have an "in" with the factory, in which case you could be making thousands from all the car magazines with your scoop photos! [bigwhistle]

[martnH]

I didn't think anyone had seen it yet?

The only pictures so far have been "artists impressions" or a few pics of a (supposed) mule that bears no relationship whatever to what the eventual sheetmetal will look like.

Unless you have an "in" with the factory, in which case you could be making thousands from all the car magazines with your scoop photos! [bigwhistle]Sry I meant the defender with factory V8. I think 500some NM 200some horsepower (not that means much to me

Land rover know this. They know their customers. They buy land rover not for value but status

Following the same logic, the next generation defender will be another wrangler

[donh54]

Just doing what many other makers have done before them.

GMH and Ford were good at it, too. End of a particular model, they use up the last bits of sheetmetal, add all the final bits of bling they can find from the parts and accessories bin, tweak the biggest engine they have and throw it in, and market it as an "instant classic".

Even better if you whack an outrageous price on it. Some people will always equate that with desirability, and let the moths out of the cheque book. [bigrolf]

[Andrew86]

Sry I meant the defender with factory V8. I think 500some NM 200some horsepower (not that means much to me

Land rover know this. They know their customers. They buy land rover not for value but status

Following the same logic, the next generation defender will be another wrangler

I hope Land Rover follows exactly what Jeep has achieved with the 2018 Wrangler. They basically kept the formula exactly the same but rebuilt it from the ground up as a modern vehicle. The result, based on the glowing reviews so far, is an incredibly capable, charismatic 4x4 that's quieter, more refined and doesn't have the NVH drawbacks of the old model.

As for the 500hp Defender; that's just a bit of fun and publicity while we wait for 2020 to arrive. I'm not sure what point you're trying to make.

[pauloarg]

Prob not in Carsales but here is a nice manual Deefer 90 available at Subaru Docklands in Melbourne. MY11 and only travelled 35k.


2011 Land Rover Defender 90 (Black) for sale in Docklands - Subaru Interactive @ Docklands (https://www.subarudocklands.com.au/stock/details/'vehicle=2011_LAND_ROVER_DEFENDER_90&stock=427594)

[ATH]

I've just put our Puma 110 back on carsales after taking it off for Xmas and travelling. I'm might try the gum nutters site as well. :0
AlanH.

[Pickles2]

Put Gracie up on Carsales,...1st genuine inquiry after 2 days, saw Gracie, & bought her,...but He'd been looking, on & off, for a couple of years!.....Gracie was absolutely like new, even though she'd traveled 60ks.
Pickles.

[Chops]

Put Gracie up on Carsales,...1st genuine inquiry after 2 days, saw Gracie, & bought her,...but He'd been looking, on & off, for a couple of years!.....Gracie was absolutely like new, even though she'd traveled 60ks.
Pickles.


Hope you got what you were after for her,,, and the question now remains,,,, Whats next?

[YOLO110]

Hope you got what you were after for her,,, and the question now remains,,,, Whats next?

He is now the proud owner of one of the last Commodore HSV GTSR's! [biggrin]

[Pickles2]

He is now the proud owner of one of the last Commodore HSV GTSR's! [biggrin]
Yep, couldn't resist it, it's the last of the last, and the GTSR does have some pretty special stuff on it. We've ordered an auto. Went for a demo in one last week, and a flat out change from 1st to 2nd was quite, "exciting"!
Pickles.

[rrturboD]

Found this local vehicle: We've taken a wrong turn (https://www.carsales.com.au/private/details/Land-Rover-Defender-1996/SSE-AD-5212417/?Cr=0)

[Andrew86]

Yep, couldn't resist it, it's the last of the last

So was the Defender! [happycry]

[Chops]

Found this local vehicle: We've taken a wrong turn (https://www.carsales.com.au/private/details/Land-Rover-Defender-1996/SSE-AD-5212417/?Cr=0)


Thats nicely set up.

[karlz]

Found this local vehicle: We've taken a wrong turn (https://www.carsales.com.au/private/details/Land-Rover-Defender-1996/SSE-AD-5212417/?Cr=0)

very nice

[Tombie]

Yep, couldn't resist it, it's the last of the last, and the GTSR does have some pretty special stuff on it. We've ordered an auto. Went for a demo in one last week, and a flat out change from 1st to 2nd was quite, "exciting"!
Pickles.

And still gets its backside handed to it by an overgrown scalectrix car [emoji41]

(Just stirring) [emoji48]

[Fastrunn3r]

Prob not in Carsales but here is a nice manual Deefer 90 available at Subaru Docklands in Melbourne. MY11 and only travelled 35k.


2011 Land Rover Defender 90 (Black) for sale in Docklands - Subaru Interactive @ Docklands (https://www.subarudocklands.com.au/stock/details/'vehicle=2011_LAND_ROVER_DEFENDER_90&stock=427594)

I just bought this... although it was a My 2012... I thought it very well priced! It was advertised in Car Sales yesterday, put the deposit down this morning!

[pauloarg]

I just bought this... although it was a My 2012... I thought it very well priced! It was advertised in Car Sales yesterday, put the deposit down this morning!
Congratulations!!!
I drove past it on Sunday, and was thinking of coming in during this week until I saw the sold sign immediately.
I'm sure you will enjoy the LR experience. 👌

[filcar]

Looks reasonable from the pix ... http://www.graysonline.com/lot/0001-3420808/motor-vehiclesmotor-cycles/2003-land-rover-defender-110-td5-extreme-4x4-turbo-diesel-manual-wagon'spr=true

[donh54]

Lots of red dust, and oil & filters every 10 k points to heavy duty use. Of course, that's not necessarily a problem, as long as the rest of the maintenance is up to scratch.
I was at a Mannheim auction last year, looking at a 110 that looked quite tidy in the online photos. Sure glad I wasn't the guy bidding over the phone! The thing had been a beach hire vehicle apparently. Rotten as a chop underneath, and rough as guts inside- but it looked good in the photos!
Luckily for the phone bidder it had a stupid reserve on it, so he didn't end up getting it.

[Zeros]

Yeah looks like it's done some very hard work up north. Not to say it's not a good buy at the right price. And if all servicing done well every 10k it could be ok and will have had any issues sorted I'd reckon. Defenders like to work hard and keep going no matter what if properly serviced. But they also get loose and rattly all over! in those conditions. The roof and interior look like my 98 Tdi after 10 years in northern Aus, blistered peeled paint, and the red dust never comes out. ...go in with your eyes open and as advised above, don't buy sight unseen. If you want a workhorse, not a fancy city vehicle it could be a decent buy around $6k.

[Tins]

Oh my...

We've taken a wrong turn (https://www.carsales.com.au/private/details/Land-Rover-Defender-2014/SSE-AD-5159050/?Cr=1)

[Tins]

This one may reflect what Tombie was saying re prices.

We've taken a wrong turn (https://www.carsales.com.au/private/details/Land-Rover-Defender-2013/SSE-AD-5115231/?Cr=7)

[DiscoMick]

Oh my...

We've taken a wrong turn (https://www.carsales.com.au/private/details/Land-Rover-Defender-2014/SSE-AD-5159050/?Cr=1)
Those Icarus roofs are a nice piece of work.

[Tins]

Those Icarus roofs are a nice piece of work.

They surely are. I really want a car set up a lot like that one sometime in the next twelve months. I reckon I'll check out the Mulgo roof though. If function and price are roughly equal then I'd prefer to give my $$ to the local bloke.

[1nando]

This one may reflect what Tombie was saying re prices.

We've taken a wrong turn (https://www.carsales.com.au/private/details/Land-Rover-Defender-2013/SSE-AD-5115231/?Cr=7)That guys had that listed since i posted mine back late november. Mine had over $30ks worth of extras, was in excellent condition and completely sorted and went for 65k.
He's dreaming when he calls it the best looking defender; mine was[emoji6][emoji6]

[DiscoMick]

They surely are. I really want a car set up a lot like that one sometime in the next twelve months. I reckon I'll check out the Mulgo roof though. If function and price are roughly equal then I'd prefer to give my $$ to the local bloke.
Yes, you should ask Weeds about his.

[ATH]

I'm not sure that because a vehicle has been serviced every 10K you can take that as an indication of a hard life. My 2010 110 which is up for sale is always serviced at that mark regardless of if it's been used for towing our small van or done off road trips. Never would I leave an oil/filter change for 20K as the service book says.
Our D4 is done exactly the same way.
In fact every car I've ever owned has been over serviced...... I know many would think it's un-necessary but that's the way I like it.
Both vehicles are always washed underneath at the same time. Over the top it might be but that's the way I like to look after my vehicles.
And I don't think the presence of red dust is an indication of anything as there's heap of dirt roads around which although they chuck up a huge dust cloud couldn't be called hard driving.
AlanH.

[ATH]

Checked out the Defenders for sale on Wanneroo Rd (WA) today and the green one with a rusty bulbar which also looked like it had had a good thump was gone. You'd think they'd at least have tarted up the bar before trying to flog it but it looks like some mug has got it. Probably got convinced by all the amorall smothered on the tyres and everything inside.
White 110 with 108K was still there with the drivers door handle still hanging off and doors flapping (internal frame busted?) when they're shut...... no doubt it had under gone a 100 point inspection in their workshop before being put for at 48 grand!!!
But the good news for the eager and easily convinced punter is the price has been dropped by 4K.
Ours is still for sale but we'll keep using it until the right buyer who wants a genuine well looked after 110 comes along.
AlanH.

[one_iota]

The Defender rose coloured glasses are strong in this thread.

Is there a pill some of you blokes can take to stop the fizzing?

Off topic

Maybe I should be buried in mine!

[ozscott]

Hilarious price. Cheers

[filcar]

Looks reasonable from the pix ... http://www.graysonline.com/lot/0001-3420808/motor-vehiclesmotor-cycles/2003-land-rover-defender-110-td5-extreme-4x4-turbo-diesel-manual-wagon'spr=true

Sold for $17,878.63 including buyers premium to a Maitland NSW bidder

[ozscott]

I have been in a few but forgot just how basic they were inside compared to the D2 of the same year. I would be buying a td5 D2 any day over that one for what, half the price?

Cheers

[Tins]

https://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/bella-vista/cars-vans-utes/custom-landrover-defender-tiny-/1173822746

[martnH]

https://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/bella-vista/cars-vans-utes/custom-landrover-defender-tiny-/1173822746Oh ....Tiny for sale....?

[Robmacca]

Oh ....Tiny for sale....?


WOW... that's very interesting as I was just watching his walk through video of his Defender this morning... $70k for it and originally cost $250k to get it to the stage it is now.... Be nice if u were into those difficult type of tracks but I guess once u have done all the ones around u then u will probably be in the same position as Stefan is currently....

[ATH]

I've recently had yet another message from yet another time waster....... could he view the Defender one evening. Yes he could was my reply but then no answer. Seems to be the way lately but I can wear that as we keep using it for the occasional day trip and continue to maintain it.
Plus the Cook reckons we should keep it and use the D4 as the shopping trolley....... :(
AlanH.

[Zeros]

I've recently had yet another message from yet another time waster....... could he view the Defender one evening. Yes he could was my reply but then no answer. Seems to be the way lately but I can wear that as we keep using it for the occasional day trip and continue to maintain it.
Plus the Cook reckons we should keep it and use the D4 as the shopping trolley....... :(
AlanH.

Wise cook. D4 shopping trolley yes. ...don't you know...you only ever sell a Defender if you already have another one! They don't make them anymore you know. 😳 The tyre kickers AND the cook are actually trying to tell you something.

[Tins]

Yes, you should ask Weeds about his.

I'm impressed by what I have seen of his car. It's almost exactly what I want as a basis. But I'm going to look at the Trayon as well.

[Ranga]

I'm impressed by what I have seen of his car. It's almost exactly what I want as a basis. But I'm going to look at the Trayon as well.

I love our Trayon, but not as much as the wife loves it! Let me know if you need any Trayon info.

[Tins]

I love our Trayon, but not as much as the wife loves it! Let me know if you need any Trayon info.

Thanks for that. I'm hoping to catch up with Hokoman in the coming weeks to look at his.

So so many options. Sigh.

[ozscott]

They haven't stop making them...

AND now they have seen the light and put a petrol V8 back in (not seen since County but just a little more powerful 🤣).

Defender Works V8 70th Edition (https://www.landrover.com/explore-land-rover/land-rover-classic/defenderv8.html)

Cheers

[cripesamighty]

Nah, these were rejuvenated Defenders, not newly built. Still, I would love to have one!

[DiscoMick]

I notice it has an automatic torque biasing centre differential - I assume that would be an Ashcroft ATB?

[Ancient Mariner]

I notice it has an automatic torque biasing centre differential - I assume that would be an Ashcroft ATB?
Why?

[ozscott]

I can't recall LR doing one and Ashcroft do them very well and are UK based.

Cheers

[Ancient Mariner]

I can't recall LR doing one and Ashcroft do them very well and are UK based.

Cheers



















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All-New Ligier JS P4 Prototype Uses Quaife Transmission

[rick130]

[TABLE="width: 100%, align: center"]]

But Ashcroft's ATB is much more affordable Noel.

Did you have to modify your Quaife to fit ?

[DiscoMick]

I hadn't thought of the Quaife, so I guess it could be one of them.

[Ancient Mariner]

But Ashcroft's ATB is much more affordable Noel.

Did you have to modify your Quaife to fit ?
Rick the Ashcroft a fair bit cheaper than the Quaife but that was the only TBD available when i bought it ,no mods to fit. It drives so well I am reluctant to use diff lock which may come back to bite me but will get to test lifetime warrenty including motorsport use [bighmmm].If I was 50 years younger I would try out their Sequential 6 speed GB but not much change out of $20.000 at least that makes the TBD look cheap

Noel

[socalledfreeman]

And now the prices are even crazier, really want a TD5 90 but they're over 30k!!!!

[JDNSW]

And now the prices are even crazier, really want a TD5 90 but they're over 30k!!!!

Very few of them sold in Australia. Actually, very few 90s sold in Australia - they were not even available here for most of the Defender production period.

[Explorer30]

Went and checked out this MY11 Defender 90 late last week: We've taken a wrong turn (https://www.carsales.com.au/dealer/details/Land-Rover-Defender-2011/OAG-AD-15534404/?Cr=0)

Appeared to be in very good nick, they had a black MY12 90 and an older 110 at the dealership also which were slightly worse for wear, though I will still impressed.

A couple things I noticed - near mud guard on exhaust side was melted in all three cases, a common issue I would expect? Also, slight rust marks around firewall and rear bumper, which I understand is common.

A question for the forum - how much corrosion is to be expect/not an issue, particularly on the underside of the car (exhaust etc.). All cars had a nice coat of corrosion here.

After test driving I am sure I will be buying a defender sometime in the next year - though at 42K for a MY11 w/ 80,000 km, it may take me some time!

Cheers,

Matt

[Explorer30]

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2018/02/340.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/poYQQ0Dlj)

Photo of corrosion noticed on underside of MY11 Defender 90. Is this an issue or as expected?

[JDNSW]

The amount of corrosion will depend almost entirely on how far from the coast it has spent its life. I do not believe that amount is an issue at present though.

[Dervish]

Photo of corrosion noticed on underside of MY11 Defender 90. Is this an issue or as expected?

Completely normal; exhausts experience large temperature fluctuations which make them corrode. Look for rust elsewhere.

[ATH]

Looks much like the exhaust on my "for sale" 110 and I would have thought it was to be expected. All the underneath gets a hammering from gravel etc. and I don't think it's got anything to do with living either close to the coast or beach trips visits nor does it represent a serious corrosion problem. A bit of surface gravel rash on chassis/exhaust etc. is to be expected unless a car never leaves the garage.
Strangely after a period of quiet I had 3 calls today about my vehicle but 2 were from yards wanting to flog it on consignment. Not sure I want to go that way as I don't trust them.....
I too have seen some of the vehicles up for sale in car yards and 2 in the northern suburbs I wouldn't touch with the proverbial barge pole!
AlanH.

[Explorer30]

Looks much like the exhaust on my "for sale" 110 and I would have thought it was to be expected. All the underneath gets a hammering from gravel etc. and I don't think it's got anything to do with living either close to the coast or beach trips visits nor does it represent a serious corrosion problem. A bit of surface gravel rash on chassis/exhaust etc. is to be expected unless a car never leaves the garage.
Strangely after a period of quiet I had 3 calls today about my vehicle but 2 were from yards wanting to flog it on consignment. Not sure I want to go that way as I don't trust them.....
I too have seen some of the vehicles up for sale in car yards and 2 in the northern suburbs I wouldn't touch with the proverbial barge pole!
AlanH.

Thanks for your reply Alan and to the others who replied also.

I'd be interested in hearing what you saw that you didn't like with regard to the two cars in the northern suburbs - perhaps something I can keep an eye out for whilst looking!

It's a shame (for me) that yours is a 110.

Already learning a lot!

Matt

[ATH]

Hi Matt. Both were 110s so of no interest to you but the first had about 108K on it and was up for 48K (now down to 44K) and the drivers door handle was broken and when both the front doors were closed, they flapped as if the internal frame was broken.
Second was a green 110 with a bull bar that had definitely been in the wars and was rusty as hell. Now that had definitely spent lots of time down the beach or maybe immersed for a while but I see it's now gone from the yard.
No doubt someone was dazzled by the gallon or so of amorall splashed over the tyres etc. and that it had passed their "100 point inspection test"....... forget how many kays this had on or the price but it was in the high 40 odd grand mark.
If the yard couldn't be bothered tarting up the bull bar even, what else was rotten underneath?
"Never mind the quality, feel the width"....no doubt the 3 month warranty will fix everything. [bigsmile1]
It amazes me that people will pay out good money for either of these vehicles yet seem reluctant to look at a seriously good vehicle because it's a private sale!
Good luck in the hunt.
AlanH.

[Explorer30]

Hi Matt. Both were 110s so of no interest to you but the first had about 108K on it and was up for 48K (now down to 44K) and the drivers door handle was broken and when both the front doors were closed, they flapped as if the internal frame was broken.
Second was a green 110 with a bull bar that had definitely been in the wars and was rusty as hell. Now that had definitely spent lots of time down the beach or maybe immersed for a while but I see it's now gone from the yard.
No doubt someone was dazzled by the gallon or so of amorall splashed over the tyres etc. and that it had passed their "100 point inspection test"....... forget how many kays this had on or the price but it was in the high 40 odd grand mark.
If the yard couldn't be bothered tarting up the bull bar even, what else was rotten underneath?
"Never mind the quality, feel the width"....no doubt the 3 month warranty will fix everything. [bigsmile1]
It amazes me that people will pay out good money for either of these vehicles yet seem reluctant to look at a seriously good vehicle because it's a private sale!
Good luck in the hunt.
AlanH.

Certainly is easy to fall for these cars and forget the coin... thanks Alan and good luck with the sale.

[Zeros]

Certainly is easy to fall for these cars and forget the coin... thanks Alan and good luck with the sale.

It's the same for all vehicles. You can try to find a good one, not buy an obvious dud, but in the end there will always be things to fix on a vehicle. I remember buying my first car, a Subaru 1600 wagon. It was second or third hand, but I still expected it to be perfect. ...That I wouldn't need to fix anything. Then I realised once it's mine I have no choice but to fix whatever goes wrong with it.

And price is all relative. Not to what they used to sell for new, but rather to what else is on the market at the time. All obvious I suppose but I hope it helps in the decision. I'll be paying off my 2014 Defender for many years to come, but it's a labour of love, I really enjoy driving it every day.

[Mittsy]

It makes me laugh, there’s a lot of blokes selling ,that have spent all this money on the defender but unfortunately work commitments and life s getting in the way🙄 I got an idea make time ya only live once !!!

[Tins]

I remember buying my first car, a Subaru 1600 wagon. It was second or third hand, but I still expected it to be perfect. ...



Are you saying it wasn't? Those things were bulletproof. Most reliable car I have ever encountered, apart from the first Charades. Line ball IMO.

[Zeros]

Are you saying it wasn't? Those things were bulletproof. Most reliable car I have ever encountered, apart from the first Charades. Line ball IMO.

🙂👍 it was awesome, yes. But it needed clutch, oil seals, CV's, in fairly rapid succession, which was a shock for a young man at the time expecting a perfect car! Funny, they're all Land Rover traits!

[socalledfreeman]

Anyone seen the 2 yellow 90 TD5s for sale? big difference in price, anyone heres?

[ATH]

"But it needed clutch, oil seals, CV's, in fairly rapid succession, which was a shock for a young man at the time expecting a perfect car! Funny, they're all Land Rover traits!'
That's certainly not my experience with Deafeners and I've had 3 of them plus 2 Discos.
I know they have the reputation of leaky seals but I honestly haven't had much of a problem with them. The 300Tdi had a slight prob. (but I can't remember where from) but nothing serious.
Must be lucky I guess. :)
AlanH.

[Zeros]

"But it needed clutch, oil seals, CV's, in fairly rapid succession, which was a shock for a young man at the time expecting a perfect car! Funny, they're all Land Rover traits!'
That's certainly not my experience with Deafeners and I've had 3 of them plus 2 Discos.
I know they have the reputation of leaky seals but I honestly haven't had much of a problem with them. The 300Tdi had a slight prob. (but I can't remember where from) but nothing serious.
Must be lucky I guess. :)
AlanH.

Are you sure there's any oil in them?? 😂😇

[DiscoMick]

My Defender has nil oil leaks - not one, and it was just serviced so I know there is oil in them.
Mind you, now I've said that I'll probably walk out today and spot oil on the carport floor.

[ATH]

I've been out and checked the Puma and it's very dry around nearly all areas. Only a slight weep from one place and I can't be bothered with that. Oil spreads a long way and always looks worse than it is.... as long as it doesn't leave a puddle on the floor, I'm happy.
AlanH.

PS. A mate some time ago had an 80 series Tojo and you got oil on you just walking past and he had the cheek to complain about and old series Landie leaking oil! [bigsmile]

[DiscoMick]

I had a laugh at the bloke asking $83,000 for a 2012 Defender.

We've taken a wrong turn (https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/landrover/defender/)

[rar110]

I counted 18 in the $70k plus range. All the way to $95k. [emoji15]

[Jake93]

I had a laugh at the bloke asking $83,000 for a 2012 Defender.

We've taken a wrong turn (https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/landrover/defender/)


I think what's even funnier is how long they are sitting..

A guy in QLD has a black 110 2010 with 180,000kms on the clock for $45,000.. it's been for sale for easily 6 months if not more at the same price the entire time. I offered him 37,000 which he declined.. so I just told him I'd try again in another 6 months which he got pretty ****ed off and butthurt about... If no one had offered you what you were asking after 6 months surely you'd have to consider that you are not meeting the market price?

I find his arrogance even more rich too considering he probably paid less than $45,000 for it. Some of the people selling are really just trying to cash in on the hype.

[dazzler]

I think what's even funnier is how long they are sitting..

A guy in QLD has a black 110 2010 with 180,000kms on the clock for $45,000.. it's been for sale for easily 6 months if not more at the same price the entire time. I offered him 37,000 which he declined.. so I just told him I'd try again in another 6 months which he got pretty ****ed off and butthurt about... If no one had offered you what you were asking after 6 months surely you'd have to consider that you are not meeting the market price?

I find his arrogance even more rich too considering he probably paid less than $45,000 for it. Some of the people selling are really just trying to cash in on the hype.


Then again, he will be buying in the same market (assuming he is upgrading). I had a similar experience with my swapping over. Got a reasonable price for mine(paid lot less 2 years ago) and paid a premium for the new one. Both being 2012 110 BTW.

[ATH]

I think the hype following the end of production of Defenders went long ago. I've had mine for sale for a good 6 months on and off, I remove it when we're travelling and have had some interest but nothing positive yet.
Not over priced at 35K with much preventative maintenance done and 175K on the clock. It does lack the gallons of amorall dealers pour over the vehicles in their yards though....
But had 3 calls recently, 2 from dealers wanting to have it on consignment ("We'll put a little bit on the price for us") but I'll wait for a genuine private buyer to come along as I don't like smarmy caryard types..... and don't trust them.
AlanH.

[Andrew86]

I find his arrogance even more rich too considering he probably paid less than $45,000 for it. Some of the people selling are really just trying to cash in on the hype.

To be fair, it's his car and if he's decided that $45k the number he can live with to let it go then he has every right to stick to that figure. The market for Defenders is small so it isn't unusual for cars to sit around for months, even when the price is right.

It's always a good idea to check your attitude at the door when going into private sales negotiations too. You're much more likely to find a seller willing to lower their price if they feel their pride and joy is going to a good home.

[Tombie]

Perhaps it was more a case he didn’t appreciate some 25yr old smart arse making cheap remarks when they were told the seller wasn’t willing to drop 18% off their listed price!

You offered an insulting price based on the listed SP and when you didn’t get your own way you threw a snarky remark about 6 months time.

Guess what, at that exact moment - I wouldn’t have sold it to you if you offered to pay the full price..

I’ve done exactly that before, I’m not in any rush...

[Jake93]

Perhaps it was more a case he didn’t appreciate some 25yr old smart arse making cheap remarks when they were told the seller wasn’t willing to drop 18% off their listed price!

You offered an insulting price based on the listed SP and when you didn’t get your own way you threw a snarky remark about 6 months time.

Guess what, at that exact moment - I wouldn’t have sold it to you if you offered to pay the full price..

I’ve done exactly that before, I’m not in any rush...

No skin off my nose.. I'm not overpaying for something that I don't believe is worth it so we can agree to disagree on that one.

A 2011 black 110 with 88,000kms in Sydney that was in absolute mint condition was listed today at about 5PM for $42,000 as I got a notification from my saved search on Carsales. At 7PM it was sold.. literally 2-3 hours on the market, before I even had a chance to call the bloke! so you're going to tell me that one thats been sitting for 6 months is the right price? riiiiiiight.

[Tombie]

Multitude of factors...

Time, location all come into it..
Like they say right place, right time...

Lara (My Tombraider 110) sold in the time it took to make a coffee.. [emoji41]

[Zeros]

No skin off my nose.. I'm not overpaying for something that I don't believe is worth it so we can agree to disagree on that one.

A 2011 black 110 with 88,000kms in Sydney that was in absolute mint condition was listed today at about 5PM for $42,000 as I got a notification from my saved search on Carsales. At 7PM it was sold.. literally 2-3 hours on the market, before I even had a chance to call the bloke! so you're going to tell me that one thats been sitting for 6 months is the right price? riiiiiiight.

You don't know what it sold for, how motivated the seller was, or the negotiating abilities of the buyer. Might have sold for $36k.

I sold old a car cheaper than I should have because I liked the guy, he loved the vehicle, he was genuine and courteous and it felt good to help him out with a discount. Also a quick sale is a good sale.

[MrKeswick16]

(Jake93) $45,000 for almost 200 000km, I wouldn’t even waste my time with dealing with someone like that, they’re not serious about selling.

[Tombie]

(Jake93) $45,000 for almost 200 000km, I wouldn’t even waste my time with dealing with someone like that, they’re not serious about selling.

Got some news for you.. check current prices.

Some high km stuff is even more!

[MrKeswick16]

Thank you for the news update. As I said earlier, $45,000 for those kilometers, they’re not serious.

[Zeros]

Compared to new prices for Defender 2-3 years ago, yes $45k for 200,000km looks high. But that's only because new Defenders were underpriced in the market. That was then. This is now.

New Tojo 76 are $70k minimum. The only direct competitor to Defender (other than the mythical G Professional Wagon at $110,000).

Here's a comparative Tojo 76:
We've taken a wrong turn (https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/details/Toyota-Landcruiser-2009/SSE-AD-5127080)

Defenders are iconic and better than Tojo 76 IMO. Small market but the prices seem to be holding. This may change with the release of the mythical new Defender, it it may not. It's unlikely the next Defender will be priced under $60-70k. If it is though to compete with the dual about market current second hand prices might come down. But if the next Defender isn't as awesome as we'd like, or just not as iconic as the original, current second hand Defender prices may continue to rise.

Is is it a bubble or a bull market? Only time will tell.

[Zeros]

Mods...for some reason I can't edit my posts in this section ....should say ....to compete in the 'dual cab' market

[Andrew86]

Thank you for the news update. As I said earlier, $45,000 for those kilometers, they’re not serious.

The guy may well be on the fence about whether or not he even wants to part with it. $45k is the number that gets him off that fence and if he's in no hurry then there's no harm in waiting to see whether the right buyer comes along. There have been plenty of 'expression of interest' style ads on Carsales over the last few years - people who don't necessarily want to sell but will have a go with a number in mind.

They're perfectly within their rights to do that and I really don't see how they're in breach of any moral obligations in doing so. Of course it's up to you to determine whether their price matches yours, but they don't owe anyone any favours.

[ozscott]

Yep it's all supply and demand. Personally I would rather chew off my left hand than pay such prices for a well used Deefer but if others are prepared to more power to the sellers.

Cheers

[MrKeswick16]

(Andrew86) We could all theorise on his intentions, although if he is fence sitting, he’s not serious then.

IRT: Breaching moral obligations??.....Not relevant in this matter I suggest.

[Zeros]

Yep it's all supply and demand. Personally I would rather chew off my left hand than pay such prices for a well used Deefer but if others are prepared to more power to the sellers.

Cheers

Because you already have a Defender?

...just interested to know, you didn't have a Deefer already, what would you buy instead for $45k?

[ozscott]

I would buy a D2 and custom it for a fraction of the price.

Cheers