Disappointed in the D5 / waiting for the Defender

[crash]

Finally made my way into the LR dealer and had a very quick look at the D5.
Did not sit in all of the seats but did like the feel of the drivers seat.
Compared to my D2 it appeared to be smaller in size in the interior. In the 3rd row there were only a couple of small storage bins. I Like the large storage bins in the D2.
One of the things I loved about the D2 and to a lesser degree with the D3/D4 was the squared off look which I love but has been lost on the new D5.
No one has talked about load carrying capacity of the D5 - looking at the spec sheet and subtracting weight from gross vehicle weight your payload is roughly between 750 and 945kg - depending on engine options.
350kg for tongue weight is impressive. One thing that is noted in tech specs is if you have the Aero wheels and low rolling resistance tyres fitted towing capacity drops to 2500kg and tongue weight is 100kg.
As far as LR accessories go you can get a decent looking cargo barrier - (Do not know if 3rd row seats are functional with it in), rubber floor and cargo mats, and a loadspace organiser system (3rd row seats not useable with this in place). There are other accessories like bike racks and roof rails etc listed in the product brochure.
One thing that I think is deceptive is when it just sitting there in its "egress mode" it looks very low and would be useless offroad - but in off road it would look much differently I would imagine.
I may or may not take one for a test drive someday - but I will not consider buying one until like Tombie has said not until some sort of frontal protection and a winch cradle has been created for it.
Also am curious as to what will the max Diam tyre will fit it.
Would I take one offroad if I bought one - You bet - can I afford to buy one - not this year.
I too is interested in the new Defender if is ever going to be a reality - I do have my doubts. I am currently waiting to see what the new Jeep Dual Cab ute is like - due out next year.

[rammypluge]

My impression is that they help make the aluminium monocoque stiff and strong by enlarging the pillars, which would make the interior smaller, so they make the exterior bigger instead.

In my experience if you want to go 4wding and touring the dual cab ute arrangement is better than a wagon. If jeep do a decent job of it it could become relatively popular.

[1nando]

My impression is that they make the aluminium monocoque stiff and strong by enlarging the pillars, which would make the interior smaller, so they make the exterior bigger instead.

In my experience if you want to go 4wding and touring the dual cab ute arrangement is better than a wagon. If jeep do a decent job of it it could become relatively popular.I agree reagrding the new jeep ute. Jeep is currently struggling over here and they've had a massive loss of sales t through their terrible lack of service. Does anyone know if it will have live axles?

[ozscott]

My impression is that they make the aluminium monocoque stiff and strong by enlarging the pillars, which would make the interior smaller, so they make the exterior bigger instead.

In my experience if you want to go 4wding and touring the dual cab ute arrangement is better than a wagon. If jeep do a decent job of it it could become relatively popular.My mate is just going from his second d3 (this one one of the very last) to a Triton. Just got a Black Widow canopy (very strong thick fibreglass) and it's interesting to see what's possible. A plastic diesel tank that takes up little room is going up against the bulkhead and there is room galore. The Black Widow seals very well and has lighting (he is adding to it) and good locking so it's like a much bigger wagon really. Cheers

[rammypluge]

I agree reagrding the new jeep ute. Jeep is currently struggling over here and they've had a massive loss of sales t through their terrible lack of service. Does anyone know if it will have live axles?My impression is that it will have live axles, and be a variant of the JK.

[Tombie]

Sadly they don't, but that doesn't stop the dealership from charging them out at that rate!

We labour hire fitters and stick burners at about the same rate....

Nothing particularly odd about that hourly servicing rate..

My currently labour hire on site (just the additional manpower during commissioning) runs to $36k a week...

[Tombie]

I agree reagrding the new jeep ute. Jeep is currently struggling over here and they've had a massive loss of sales t through their terrible lack of service. Does anyone know if it will have live axles?

Live axles aren’t the critical part in the new Jeep..

It’s willingness to catch fire would be something to resolve first!

[Tombie]

My mate is just going from his second d3 (this one one of the very last) to a Triton. Just got a Black Widow canopy (very strong thick fibreglass) and it's interesting to see what's possible. A plastic diesel tank that takes up little room is going up against the bulkhead and there is room galore. The Black Widow seals very well and has lighting (he is adding to it) and good locking so it's like a much bigger wagon really. Cheers

Nice looking, good engine if it doesn’t do the turbo or head in (common)..

Seats are less comfortable than the ones from School days.. think Plank on concrete...

And don’t load the tray up too much and go offroad - it’s likely to come back curved!

[1nando]

Live axles aren’t the critical part in the new Jeep..

It’s willingness to catch fire would be something to resolve first![emoji23] lol.....yeah but jeep has a golden opportunity to get some market share if they get it right.

[CraigE]

The first pick would be awesome on a Defender.

I hear on the grapevine that LR want to make the next Defender the best expedition vehicle ever, and are currently debating the best form of engine bay access.[emoji6]https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/10/313.jpghttps://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/10/314.jpghttps://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/10/315.jpghttps://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/10/316.jpg

[rammypluge]

The first pick would be awesome on a Defender.I was surprised actually about the exaggerated clamshell on the mini. To me that looks even better than the front tilt. The big clamshell is kinda like a 'back tilt', it gets the tilt out of the way leaving three sides with great access.

[rammypluge]

To me the triton is the weakest contender in the mainstream dual cab wars. Dont forget about the chintzy interior (and exterior).

[DiscoMick]

A relative was very disappointed in his Triton and got rid of it.

The electronics in the D5 don't worry me. I lean towards the argument that electronics may be more reliable than mechanical systems, which I'm sure many here would reject, but I'm not sure how it could be proven.

[ozscott]

I actually don't mind Triton and the interior isn't a deal breaker. Better than a Collie...

It represents the best value. I had the previous model in the pack with me at Cape York and it did well with recognised limitations. The new one is stronger in the chassis thankfully and stock rear diff lock on Exceed is nice but from memory (and unlike the Ranger) locking the rear diff removed front axle ETC ability which is poor design.

They are pretty honest. Not huge like others but big enough and if you drill down it's payload, tow load and ball weight are surprising compared to the the big boy toy utes like Ford and Holden. I'm being a bit derisive about Collie and Ranger because outwardly they are trying to all be F Trucks...but they are not. Again Triton goes the other way and the styling is almost feminine by comparison and I don't mind it now. Especially when bar work etc is done.


Cheers

[rammypluge]

A relative was very disappointed in his Triton and got rid of it.

The electronics in the D5 don't worry me. I lean towards the argument that electronics may be more reliable than mechanical systems, which I'm sure many here would reject, but I'm not sure how it could be proven.I guess if you are happy enough with a triton and got it for $30k you are $10k ahead of the competition(?).

On the electronics side of things, there are situations where electronics replace mechanical things, like a solenoid actuated transfer case versus mechanical levers, in which case they are competitors for reliability, and then there are situations where things that were previously more basic have been made more complex, like a non locking fuel tank flap versus one with a solenoid lock.

I reckon most times a mechanical lever transfer case has issues it is solvable, remove any dirt buildup, lubricate or free any seized components or adjust things. Its not likely to be a show stopper. Versus electronic, which if it develops a fault could easily be more challenging to fix. Maybe a switch just needs cleaning, but maybe its harder to work out exactly what is wrong and how to deal with a very specific electronic gizmo that stopped working?

As for fuel flaps, while i havent ever parked overnight at innaminka, i have never had fuel stolen. Whereas after only two years (and a fair bit of dust?) a solenoid flap lock stopped working properly making it seem impossible to open. You very quickly get very annoyed and want to reach for a crowbar. Its a new problem most dont need to have, and involves time and organising to get replaced even when under warranty, which if you costed would easily be a tank or more of (not) stolen fuel.

[crash]

What are the service intervals of the new D5 engines?
Do they all use cam belts or chains?
How easy will they be to service at home?
I presume the auto is "sealed for life" - hopefully they have made the auto strong enough for the rated 600nm of the 3lTd6

The roof rails are rated to 80kg - which I think is the same for the previous Discos.

At least the D5 should fit into ALL underground carparks which I could not say about my D2.

[rammypluge]

When you open the bonnett, there will be a full plastic cover, upon which will be the sign, "Staff Only".

We seem to hardly hear about the below. Might still be a bit heavy even if it could be de-armoured (?)....
Hawkei - Wikipedia (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawkei)

[colb]

Had my first look at the D5 today. Salesman advised no 18 inch tyre but 19inch are "bush ready".He advised the defender would be in 2019.

Anyway looks good but too refined and too expensive for me to use as an off road tourer. Would buy a RRS instead as its a bit smaller and same level of fancyness

[AllTerr]

When you open the bonnett, there will be a full plastic cover, upon which will be the sign, "Staff Only".

We seem to hardly hear about the below. Might still be a bit heavy even if it could be de-armoured (?)....
Hawkei - Wikipedia (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawkei)
I'd rather have an H1

[scarry]

Had my first look at the D5 today. Salesman advised no 18 inch tyre but 19inch are "bush ready".He advised the defender would be in 2019.

Anyway looks good but too refined and too expensive for me to use as an off road tourer. Would buy a RRS instead as its a bit smaller and same level of fancyness


:Rolling::Rolling::Rolling:

It just shows how much these salesman know about the vehicle they are selling.

In fact the 19 inch OEM size is only available in a few brands,all P rated, which is also an issue,[bigsad]

Where the 18 inch after market wheel size,same diameter is very common and made in LT,MT,etc in many brands,therefore numerous options.

[rammypluge]

A Russian engineer's idea of the next defender...

(Viewers warning; Potentially painful images. I take no responsibility for any psychiatric injuries caused).

Company Offers 100 Year Warranty on Their 'Warzone Ready' Truck That Gets 1,000 Miles Per Tank | Tribunist (http://tribunist.com/news/company-offers-100-year-warranty-on-their-warzone-ready-truck-that-gets-1000-miles-per-tank/?utm_source=LRD)

[ozscott]

A Mini Moke's daddy.

[rammypluge]

Mini Mokes had some style, but not sure about a 100yr warranty being suitable. Hadnt seen one for a while, then saw this one...https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/10/377.jpg

[DiscoMick]

I guess if you are happy enough with a triton and got it for $30k you are $10k ahead of the competition(?).

On the electronics side of things, there are situations where electronics replace mechanical things, like a solenoid actuated transfer case versus mechanical levers, in which case they are competitors for reliability, and then there are situations where things that were previously more basic have been made more complex, like a non locking fuel tank flap versus one with a solenoid lock.

I reckon most times a mechanical lever transfer case has issues it is solvable, remove any dirt buildup, lubricate or free any seized components or adjust things. Its not likely to be a show stopper. Versus electronic, which if it develops a fault could easily be more challenging to fix. Maybe a switch just needs cleaning, but maybe its harder to work out exactly what is wrong and how to deal with a very specific electronic gizmo that stopped working?

As for fuel flaps, while i havent ever parked overnight at innaminka, i have never had fuel stolen. Whereas after only two years (and a fair bit of dust?) a solenoid flap lock stopped working properly making it seem impossible to open. You very quickly get very annoyed and want to reach for a crowbar. Its a new problem most dont need to have, and involves time and organising to get replaced even when under warranty, which if you costed would easily be a tank or more of (not) stolen fuel.
I suppose an air locker versus an e-locker is another example. E-locker has less parts to fail.

[weeds]

I suppose an air locker versus an e-locker is another example. E-locker has less parts to fail.

I wonder what the number of parts to fail between the two actually is??

[DiscoMick]

Yes, it would be interesting to know. I've certainly heard plenty of failed air locker stories, often compressors or air hoses, but no e-locker fails, which doesn't actually prove anything.

[Vern]

Yes, it would be interesting to know. I've certainly heard plenty of failed air locker stories, often compressors or air hoses, but no e-locker fails, which doesn't actually prove anything.I have heard of e-locker failures, the magnet? failed im them. One guy had gone through 3 lockers in the front of his jeep in 4 years!!! Then went for an arb

[rammypluge]

I have seen a couple of large fb polls and e-lockers utterly creamed air lockers. It seems close to 100% for e-lockers these days.

An interesting thing is, my impression is that trucks have used air pressure to lock their diffs for yonks, and the reliability seems very good.

[weeds]

Yes, it would be interesting to know. I've certainly heard plenty of failed air locker stories, often compressors or air hoses, but no e-locker fails, which doesn't actually prove anything.

Considering we are in a D5 thread which has a compressor standard....

The only failure I had with twin ARB lockers was soon after I purchase, damaged a hose going to front locker....re-routed it and never had in issue in 10 years

I haven't decided which locker I will install in current defer.

[1nando]

I have e-lockes front and rear. Why did i choose them? Simple, all my mates with air lockers have had some sort of leak at some stage. The o-rings have a tendancy to leak.

[SBD4]

Discos do not have an "e-locker" but rather an "e-diff" which has a progressive locking mechanism that can apply up to 30000Nm of torque to effectively lock the diff. The beauty of this is that the system locks only when needed and only to the extent required. It does not suffer the disadvantages of traditional diff locks.

[Vern]

I have seen a couple of large fb polls and e-lockers utterly creamed air lockers. It seems close to 100% for e-lockers these days.

An interesting thing is, my impression is that trucks have used air pressure to lock their diffs for yonks, and the reliability seems very good.Yeah i wonder how many of those facebook folk had e-lockers, or even had lockers at all[emoji4]

[rammypluge]

Yeah i wonder how many of those facebook folk had e-lockers, or even had lockers at all[emoji4]My impression is that most o.e. lockers are elockers, my rok has one, and so do most or many dual cab utes these days.

[CraigE]

Well bit the bullet today and went and had a look at the D5 while around Welshpool at Southern LandRover after chatting to one of the workshop guys who parents have a holiday house across the road and helped us push the Defender into the drive way.
Well they are much better in the Flesh. The interior as pointed out before is absolutely amazing. Still not sold on the styling, but is much better in person. The biggest downfall is the rear roof line the way it drops away and reduces load space. Some discussions around lower grade models may get better specs and coils next year.
Still want the Vogue, but my budget based on repayment will likely only get me the base model.[happycry]
Still would love the RR Vogue, might have to set up a go fund me page. [bigwhistle]
Then went next door and looked at the Jags, well would like one of them too.

[scarry]

I had an email from ARB last week,about accessories for D5.

"no accessories are in the pipeline.This may change,depending on the number of enquiries for accessories for this vehicle"

It would be interesting to know what others such as opposite lock are doing.

[Tombie]

And that’s what will hold me back.
No frontal bar work means I won’t upgrade.

[scarry]

And that’s what will hold me back.
No frontal bar work means I won’t upgrade.


Exactly,and a reason sales may not be as good as hoped.

I hit a roo a few weeks back,luckily Mrs Scarry screamed,so I was on the anchors real hard.Car coming the other way,just on dusk,I didn’t even see that one,saw the other thousand or so that trip,and quite a few porkers.

If I didn’t have the bar it would have been a show stopper.

Cargo barrier is also a must for me,anther very important safety device.

[Tombie]

I think it will sell just fine.. the demographic will skew a bit though..

Daylight Bickie Dippers, Adventure lifestyle families (go to the National park to downhill), and urban luxury will become a big market.

The offroad set will hold back for offroad equipment.

[PAT303]

Exactly,and a reason sales may not be as good as hoped.

I hit a roo a few weeks back,luckily Mrs Scarry screamed,so I was on the anchors real hard.Car coming the other way,just on dusk,I didn’t even see that one,saw the other thousand or so that trip,and quite a few porkers.

If I didn’t have the bar it would have been a show stopper.

Cargo barrier is also a must for me,anther very important safety device.

Alloy & Grit make a barrier. Pat

[scarry]

I think it will sell just fine.. the demographic will skew a bit though..

Daylight Bickie Dippers, Adventure lifestyle families (go to the National park to downhill), and urban luxury will become a big market.

The offroad set will hold back for offroad equipment.

Thats the market LR are targeting all their vehicles at these days,the market is huge,and where the $$$ are.

The offroad people are waiting patiently for the Deefer.

[Zeros]

...but what will Defender people do if the new Deefer is also a luxury barge aimed at wealthy weekender adventure folk? ...where the dollars are.

[cripesamighty]

...but what will Defender people do when the new Deefer is also a luxury barge aimed at wealthy weekender adventure folk? ...where the dollars are.

There you go. Fixed it for you.... [bigwhistle]

Like everyone else, I'm really hoping against hope it's not though!

[rammypluge]

Hmm....https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/10/550.jpghttps://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/10/551.jpg

[Arapiles]

By the by, there are now photos of the new Defender available on the interweb - Autocar has them. But the body is apparently just a mule for the running gear.

[scarry]

By the by, there are now photos of the new Defender available on the interweb - Autocar has them. But the body is apparently just a mule for the running gear.


And can you believe it,they are trying to sort out a wheel package south of 19’s.

Absolutely amazing....[tonguewink]

[~Rich~]

First 2019 Land Rover Defender test mule spotted | Autocar (https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/first-2019-land-rover-defender-test-mule-spotted)

[ozscott]

Great. More tech than D5.

Cheers

[1nando]

First 2019 Land Rover Defender test mule spotted | Autocar (https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/first-2019-land-rover-defender-test-mule-spotted)It looks like a ford teritory and jeep srt had sex and gave birth......

[ozscott]

Just the running gear being tested.. cut and shut Rangie. Cheers

[SBD4]

It looks like a ford teritory and jeep srt had sex and gave birth......
It's a test mule. There's a whole thread on this in General Chat. It's current appearance has nothing to do with the final product.

Don't you have a fully independant suspension Patrol to go and drive?[wink11]

[1nando]

It's a test mule. There's a whole thread on this in General Chat. It's current appearance has nothing to do with the final product.

Don't you have a fully independant suspension Patrol to go and drive?[wink11]Yeah mate i do and its a lot of fun. Ive also still got a real LR in my driveway thats had over $90k spent on it and is pretty much unstoppable [emoji6]

[Andee]

Hi all,
Gotta say after having a good look over a D5 today I'm disappointed in it.
Yes it may go much better than the D4 due to the loss of nearly 500kg but other factors leave me cold:

The tailgate - not impressed, even with the inner dropdown section.

The battery being moved to inside one of the rear panels - yes there is space for one up front for a 2nd battery though.

The front bumper hangs way down and underbody bash panels way too thin for my liking.

The fuel tank and exhaust are like the D3/D4 and will be too easily damaged / dented, I've had both replaced in my D3.

The fitting of a spare wheel carrier will be an issue with that wide clamshell tailgate too.
So fitting a long range tank will also be an issue.

Sad :(

I'm now going to hang out for what I hope is a more practical defender, I just hope they fir some specs with the air suspension.

Cheers Rich

I have to agree with you there Rich

[~Rich~]

Plus the other negative is that you can fit 270 degree awnings. [emoji24]🤬

[SBD4]

Plus the other negative is that you can't fit 270 degree awnings. [emoji24]🤬
Fixed for ya Rich! [thumbsupbig]

[dirvine]

Seems that others think the D5 is OK! Have a look at the latest Unsealed on line Mag. D5 was voted best SUV in a comparo with Toyota, Jeep, and Ford.

[~Rich~]

Not saying it's not a great 4wd, just too many negatives for my intended usage.

[PerthDisco]

Ouch- Just catching up on some newspaper reading and Clarkson did not hold back on the D5 in his recent review in The Australian.
Obviously not a big Disco 3 or 2 fan either which is strange as they follow him around the countryside filming his journeys.

A FFRR fan from way back but he nails the point on what’s the point of so many LR models if the intended market is those never intending to go off-road.

[Colmoore]

Yep Clarksons article was quite funny, then I saw a stock D5 yesterday - hideous looking from the rear!

[ozscott]

Ouch- Just catching up on some newspaper reading and Clarkson did not hold back on the D5 in his recent review in The Australian.
Obviously not a big Disco 3 or 2 fan either which is strange as they follow him around the countryside filming his journeys.

A FFRR fan from way back but he nails the point on what’s the point of so many LR models if the intended market is those never intending to go off-road....has he seen too much haha. Cheers

[Eric SDV6SE]

But the D5 is just plain dog ugly. Even the previous model - the fridge on 4 wheels looks better - and is more practical.

I will stick with my MY11 D4 for a while, would even consider an upgrade to a MY16 D4 but not for a D5 anytime time soon.

[~Rich~]

As it turns out I ran out of time waiting and have bought a different brand 4wd. Yes I know it won’t match the D3 for comfort and quiet but I have to do it now mainly for tax reasons.

[Vern]

As it turns out I ran out of time waiting and have bought a different brand 4wd. Yes I know it won’t match the D3 for comfort and quiet but I have to do it now mainly for tax reasons.And you got a ..........??

[loanrangie]

And you got a ..........??

Hopefully not the can of tuna mentioned in his selling post.

[Vern]

Hopefully not the can of tuna mentioned in his selling post.I must have missed the add

[~Rich~]

Yes I bought a Fortuner, just need to find the most comfortable suspension kit for it!

[IndusD4]

I've ordered a D5 yesterday due for delivery end of June, beginning of July. I don't mind the look of the back, granted with a large euro style plate it looks worse in my opinion compared to a standard white rear Australian plate. Just as on my D4, it will have an e-diff and will go off road. I might look at a clear wrap to protect the paint work though.

I've driven a few D5 versions over the past few days with an overnight test drive in one model but the only negative I found was with the 2L engine, when driving away on an incline it seems the torque converter locks up quite abruptly when driving away up the hill at 1,500rpm. Maybe it was just that car. Anyway, it is a TD6 for me. Sounds better too imo.


Ron

[IndusD4]

Yes I bought a Fortuner, just need to find the most comfortable suspension kit for it!

Rich, there's a company at Mount Kuring-gai that does air suspension conversions.

Ron

[DeanoH]

Is there really going to be a 'new' Defender or is this just a long drawn out teaser until we all lose interest ?

A bit of a laugh really, Landrover dumps the Defender as no good/un economic/not politically correct or whatever but then builds a number of useless 70th anniversary macho petrol Defenders for the tosser/****** market.

In the year 2510 ............................. as the song goes. Getting sick of waiting really, .......................... or was this the plan all along ??

Deano :)

[DI5CO]

Is there really going to be a 'new' Defender or is this just a long drawn out teaser until we all lose interest ?

A bit of a laugh really, Landrover dumps the Defender as no good/un economic/not politically correct or whatever but then builds a number of useless 70th anniversary macho petrol Defenders for the tosser/****** market.

In the year 2510 ............................. as the song goes. Getting sick of waiting really, .......................... or was this the plan all along ??

Deano :)

This was in an email I received from my dealer (I just copied the relevant part)
They went overseas to receive an award and saw the new Deefer.

“We were also privileged to see the new Land Rover Defender, with three outstanding models – 90, 110 and 130. The coolest thing besides the design was the jump seat, a 3rd seat in the front. This car will be sensational when it arrives late next year. I also have to mention the new Evoque, which will be out in 2021. We all love the first Evoque, and this refined model looks to be a winner!”

I would think they will launch it this year as part of the 70th Anniversary and Aust may see it late next year.

I have been told every D4 owner will want it! I guess an eternity time will tell. lol

[101RRS]

A bit of a laugh really, Landrover dumps the Defender as no good/un economic/not politically correct or whatever but then builds a number of useless 70th anniversary macho petrol Defenders for the tosser/****** market.


But they were not '2018' models as the Defender cannot be sold "new" in 2018. In making the 70th Anniversary 5 Litre V8 they bought back good used 90s and 110s of about 2013/14 vintage and rebuilt them as the 70th model - the Vins etc show the cars as the dates of their original manufacturer and in the UK will carry their old/original number plates.

So in effect to 70th 90s and 110s are second hand vehicles [bigsmile1] - albeit very expensive vehicles.

[Zeros]

This was in an email I received from my dealer (I just copied the relevant part)
They went overseas to receive an award and saw the new Deefer.

“We were also privileged to see the new Land Rover Defender, with three outstanding models – 90, 110 and 130. The coolest thing besides the design was the jump seat, a 3rd seat in the front. This car will be sensational when it arrives late next year. I also have to mention the new Evoque, which will be out in 2021. We all love the first Evoque, and this refined model looks to be a winner!”

I would think they will launch it this year as part of the 70th Anniversary and Aust may see it late next year.

I have been told every D4 owner will want it! I guess an eternity time will tell. lol

Wow! That’s exciting news. Thanks for sharing. ...late next year hey. But possible launch later this year...surely someone snapped a sneaky pic!

[DI5CO]

Wow! That’s exciting news. Thanks for sharing. ...late next year hey. But possible launch later this year...surely someone snapped a sneaky pic!

Haha yeah we wish!! I was told all phones were confiscated!

[Zeros]

Haha yeah we wish!! I was told all phones were confiscated!

Not surprised 😎 ...did they say anything else about the size/shape? Jump seat is interesting...sounds like maybe not much of a transmission tunnel...so high clearance hopefully! (Not like a dual cab ute!?)

[DI5CO]

Not surprised [emoji41] ...did they say anything else about the size/shape? Jump seat is interesting...sounds like maybe not much of a transmission tunnel...so high clearance hopefully! (Not like a dual cab ute!?)

I was told it will look like a modern version of the Defender. (Unlike the DC100 concept) He did say it looks great. Let’s hope it does!

[RobA]

Well three versions is what we are all hoping for; short, medium & LWB and sounds like they may even keep the model numbers but time will tell on that amongst many other things. So at least one question appears to have been resolved. Albeit model configuration and specification should offer some discussion as well. I would think the 130 will be planned as the "agricultural" version. The fleet/outback/bush tourer model. Heavy duty all round. Same concept as the base model GLander we already have in Oz is what I am thinking. But hope the 110 model has choice in that space as well.

Will be looking for detail on down ball and towing capacity as well as time passes

Jump seat is fascinating. Several questions around such a thing.

In the first instance it will need a front airbag so dash design will be interesting and with one in place you will, most likely, have no safe and legal way of mounting stuff on the dash I would expect

Transmission selector positioning then comes into play. If there's a foot well and you would have to expect that then do we expect to see a column mounted lever from the old days? Or do we get the AP5 Valiant push button selector? If they are going to include the new auto TRS and taking some design cues from other models this could be a bit more than interesting to see where it ends up.


Rob

[goingbush]

This was in an email I received from my dealer (I just copied the relevant part)
They went overseas to receive an award and saw the new Deefer.

“We were also privileged to see the new Land Rover Defender, with three outstanding models – 90, 110 and 130. The coolest thing besides the design was the jump seat, a 3rd seat in the front. This car will be sensational when it arrives late next year. I also have to mention the new Evoque, which will be out in 2021. We all love the first Evoque, and this refined model looks to be a winner!”

I would think they will launch it this year as part of the 70th Anniversary and Aust may see it late next year.

I have been told every D4 owner will want it! I guess an eternity time will tell. lol

Phones confiscated eh, surely someone could do a pencil drawing.

Im hanging out for info on the new Defender before spending any 'new car' money, OK I'll compromise on Live Axles as long as its as good looking and utilitarian as the old Defender, I think everything else in the LR stable is awful , and surely that Evoque comment was a joke . If there are and design cues carried over from the Disco /RR range I wont be so interested. Oh & I'll put my money down on the Full Electric version thanks.

[cjc_td5]

I was speaking to a LR sales guy recently who had recently done done his product training with head office. Obviously the topic of Defender replacement came up. He was told not to expect a FJ Cruiser clone. It is not going to be a flash in the pan fad model. Think tough genuine vehicle was all he could/would say....

Here's hoping!

[disco gazza]

Phones confiscated eh, surely someone could do a pencil drawing.

Im hanging out for info on the new Defender before spending any 'new car' money, OK I'll compromise on Live Axles as long as its as good looking and utilitarian as the old Defender, I think everything else in the LR stable is awful , and surely that Evoque comment was a joke . If there are and design cues carried over from the Disco /RR range I wont be so interested. Oh & I'll put my money down on the Full Electric version thanks.I could be looking at buying one, just depends on if they have air suspension or not. If yes, I'm in. If not I'll think about one.

[weeds]

I could be looking at buying one, just depends on if they have air suspension or not. If yes, I'm in. If not I'll think about one.

Surely it will have air suspension.....it’s a no brainer

[Pickles2]

This was in an email I received from my dealer (I just copied the relevant part)
They went overseas to receive an award and saw the new Deefer.

“We were also privileged to see the new Land Rover Defender, with three outstanding models – 90, 110 and 130. The coolest thing besides the design was the jump seat, a 3rd seat in the front. This car will be sensational when it arrives late next year. I also have to mention the new Evoque, which will be out in 2021. We all love the first Evoque, and this refined model looks to be a winner!”

I would think they will launch it this year as part of the 70th Anniversary and Aust may see it late next year.

I have been told every D4 owner will want it! I guess an eternity time will tell. lol
"This car will be sensational", Yes,....agree 100%,.....I have largely stayed out of the, "what I want, what it should be, what it will be, predictions" etc etc, because I know nothing at all, but I have always said, and in terms of this post agree, that "Sensational" will be the appropriate description for the "New" Defender, upon its release.
Pickles.
NB: Have to say though, I doubt it will surpass the recently released Anniversary Edition 5LV8!!

[RobA]

Surely it will have air suspension.....it’s a no brainer

My info six months back from the inside was NO to air suspension as they could not get the performance out of the suspension. But that was six months back and model specification would not have been totally finalised but exceptionally close I would think as they normally lock that sort of stuff away 2 years or more into product development.

Still I will be happy with either quite frankly

Rob

[1nando]

My info six months back from the inside was NO to air suspension as they could not get the performance out of the suspension. But that was six months back and model specification would not have been totally finalised but exceptionally close I would think as they normally lock that sort of stuff away 2 years or more into product development.

Still I will be happy with either quite frankly

RobTBH if it has air suspension i wont buy it! Id much rather prefer a hydraulic system like HMBC or KDSS.
Why? All you need to do is search disco and air suspension issues to find out why. The hydraulic system used in the y62 has been around for 8 years and is rock solid, in fact i dont know anyone on the Patrol forum thats had an issue with it.
I hope its boxy like the old defender/disco and not range rover/new disco round and bulgey.

I hope the batery is kept under the passenger seat, the jack in the boot (more convenient) and has a high seating position.

Anyway......cant wait to see what it looks like.

[Chops]

I was speaking to a LR sales guy recently who had recently done done his product training with head office. Obviously the topic of Defender replacement came up. He was told not to expect a FJ Cruiser clone. It is not going to be a flash in the pan fad model. Think tough genuine vehicle was all he could/would say....

Here's hoping!


So, last night I was happy to attend the opening of the new Berwick dealership premises. An all around good event, plenty of eye candy and finger food getting around, although someone managed to set off an alarm on said candy,, haha, trying to find the right keys 🔐.

Met up up with DiscoBen there, we chatted for quite some time, was good to meet him.

On on the way out, having driven the Series 2a down, I was stopped by the principal owner and one of the executives from Sydney who were interested in the car 🚙.
The fellow from Sydney owns a “Malaysian Prototype 6x6 Perentie”. He’s been involved with LR for about 30 odd years, and helps with the engineering/sales perspective. So he has a high regard and desire to see the return of the Defender.
Several guys from Syd were overseas for the testing of several models of LRs, including the Defer Mule. The DM was last in the line up, and where others struggled a bit, the mule just power through. So in his words, this thing is GOOD.

The owner has been over to see the new car in all it’s genuine glory, and he too,
said the cubby seat is awesome 😎. What is it about the this cubby seat 💺??
he did however say, he thought at first the front looked a little FJ Cruiserish to start with, but went on to say it still retains a lot of its present “Looks”.

I guess ultimately, we’ll see when it gets released.

[Pickles2]

Chops, Having bought a few cars from Barry Bourke, I've been down that road a few times. I wasn't impressed with the initial site of Berwick Landrover (at the corner), but the new premises are VERY impressive indeed.
Glad you had a good night, Pickles.

[Tombie]

TBH if it has air suspension i wont buy it! Id much rather prefer a hydraulic system like HMBC or KDSS.
Why? All you need to do is search disco and air suspension issues to find out why. The hydraulic system used in the y62 has been around for 8 years and is rock solid, in fact i dont know anyone on the Patrol forum thats had an issue with it.
I hope its boxy like the old defender/disco and not range rover/new disco round and bulgey.

I hope the batery is kept under the passenger seat, the jack in the boot (more convenient) and has a high seating position.

Anyway......cant wait to see what it looks like.

Just a point about HBMC and KDSS.
Neither of those 2 systems are for load and height.
They’re still coil sprung. Essentially an advanced ACE system.

If they just uprate the Compressor quality the air system would be very stable.

[DI5CO]

I was there too! I saw your Series 2 when driving out!

[cjc_td5]

...
The owner has been over to see the new car in all it’s genuine glory, and he too,
said the cubby seat is awesome 😎. What is it about the this cubby seat 💺??
he did however say, he thought at first the front looked a little FJ Cruiserish to start with, but went on to say it still retains a lot of its present “Looks”.

I guess ultimately, we’ll see when it gets released.

I'll interpret the FJ Cruiser reference as being it takes styling queues from the original defender into a modern design. It won't look like a D5 then :-).

[ozscott]

I'll interpret the FJ Cruiser reference as being it takes styling queues from the original defender into a modern design. It won't look like a D5 then :-).You are kind (or optomistic). My interpretation was of rounded soft throwback design. I hope it reminds me not at all of FJ. Cheers

[RobA]

Al grist for an interesting mill.

My preference is for air suspension if I can get it. I do way too much outback travel towing and it just makes life more comfortable and easier when hitching up.

Jump seat thing will be an individual need thing I hope. We don't want one for sure. I would rather have more space to put stuff for travel.

FJ Cruiser comments are interesting. Having had a lot to do with its launch here I like the way it was a modern interpretation of the 40 series which for me still looks pretty good. As per other comments I am hoping for a modern and faithful interpretation of the original Defender. Having driven them a lot I hope, like FJ they really improve its safety, handling and all round capability which for me is all about towing

Rob

[rar110]

The EAS in my 10 year old L322 has been flawless. One of the best things about it. Instant 2” lift with a push of a button.

Coils do break, I’ve seen it. But I’m not knocking coils. They are a good suspension solution.

[rar110]

The EAS in my 10 year old L322 has been flawless. One of the best things about it. Instant 2” lift with a push of a button.

Coils do break, I’ve seen it. But I’m not knocking coils. They are a good suspension solution.

[dirvine]

One of the best things with EAS on my D4 has been hitching and unhitching my van with a D35 hitch. Also if just staying overnight I just use the LLAMS/height adjust to get the van to be level. I have the GOE kit should something go wrong. But touch wood nothing has happened so far!

[DiscoMick]

I had a good look at a D5 today and I like it. It will grow on us with time. I remember when the D3 was launched there was a lot of criticism but it turned out to be a winner.

[AllTerr]

I had a good look at a D5 today and I like it. It will grow on us with time. I remember when the D3 was launched there was a lot of criticism but it turned out to be a winner.I've had a few good looks of 1, and been on a couple trips. I like it alot, and don't know how anyone can be disappointed in it.

[ozscott]

I think for those that like dependable offloading including decent rubber size between rim and rocks etc there be disappointment. Cheers

[scarry]

I think for those that like dependable offloading including decent rubber size between rim and rocks etc there be disappointment. Cheers

And those that want accessories,bars,cargo barriers,rear wheel carriers,larger fuel tanks bla bla,will also be disappointed.

No bar,no cargo barrier(not a dog guard),its not for me.

[ozscott]

Yes it's a definite shift away from touring and remote offroaders for Australian conditions. I too am waiting for Defender. I hope they get it right, otherwise I will be qualifying for 20 year historic car Rego with my d2. Cheers

[DeanoH]

I hope I'm wrong but I can't really see the 'new' Defender being anything more than a glorified hairdressers car/SUV. Landrover started getting out of the game of making truly off road 4WD's long ago. The Range Rover and Discovery lines became softer and more luxurious at the expense of utilitarian capability; fine on road 4WD's suited to a more European or American market and with the demise of the Defender Elvis had well and truly left the room. :(

Odds are the new Defender will be an alloy monocoque air bag sprung macho looking soft roader capitalising on the Defender name and reputation aimed at the poseur market. IMO it is unlikely to be a true 4WD suitable for 'touring and remote offroaders for Australian conditions'. I will be absolutely ecstatic if I'm proved wrong. :)

Deano :)

[DiscoMick]

I note the 4x4 Australia story in the current issue said the D5 has more space then the D4 did to take larger tyres, so that makes the D5 more bush friendly than the D4. It also has the same size brakes as the D4 so bespoke 18 inch wheels produced for the D4 will also fit the D5.
So it should be possible to fit 18s to a D5 with taller tyres than could be fitted to the D4. So that's good news.

[AllTerr]

And those that want accessories,bars,cargo barriers,rear wheel carriers,larger fuel tanks bla bla,will also be disappointed.

No bar,no cargo barrier(not a dog guard),its not for me.Well I doubt they'll have a that stuff for the new Defender when it comes out. Usually takes a year or so for the aftermarket companies to catch up on a new model.

[DiscoMick]

I'd be surprised if ARB and similar companies don't come up with gear for the D5 pretty soon, since it will be such a big seller worldwide and they are global companies.

[scarry]

I note the 4x4 Australia story in the current issue said the D5 has more space then the D4 did to take larger tyres, so that makes the D5 more bush friendly than the D4. It also has the same size brakes as the D4 so bespoke 18 inch wheels produced for the D4 will also fit the D5.
So it should be possible to fit 18s to a D5 with taller tyres than could be fitted to the D4. So that's good news.

Any other good news?[biggrin][biggrin]


As for AllTerr,yes, correct,but the issue is there is nothing in the pipeline for the D5,ARB, as an example have said publicly that they have no interest in developing anything for the vehicle.
Maybe some other manufacturer is doing something?
You would think by now we would have heard of something,particularly as the vehicle has now been around for quite a while.

[1nando]

Any other good news?[biggrin][biggrin]


As for AllTerr,yes, correct,but the issue is there is nothing in the pipeline for the D5,ARB, as an example have said publicly that they have no interest in developing anything for the vehicle.
Maybe some other manufacturer is doing something?
You would think by now we would have heard of something,particularly as the vehicle has now been around for quite a while.LR invests a lot of marketing money proclaiming the d5 to have excellent off road ability. Problem is people aren't stupid.

Im about to ruffle a lot of feathers here but a d5 is not a serious offroad vehcile. Its to expensive, complicated suspension, small wheels with a stupid tyre size, body panels are to exposed to damage and its a simply too fancy with too many potential problems.

Before anyone passes judgement and says im biased and dont know what im talking about; i own a y62 and its tough as nails, relaible and relatively simple compared to the d5 but i dont consider it a serious offroad vehicle either and at least they have a reputation for getting used and abused by our friends in the middle east for what nissan built them to do. The patrol has many of the same issues i just listed above except for the fact that is has a proper offroad friendly tyre size.

If i was arb would i invest in the d5? No! Id rather spend money developing products for the dual cab ute segment, jeep, landcruisers, ford, mazda etc. The disco ain't no offroader, its a vehcile made for feminists to claim offroad "equality" when doing the school run! Lol , politically incorrect and true [emoji48][emoji48]LR built the ulimate feminist vehicle!

[Tombie]

I note the 4x4 Australia story in the current issue said the D5 has more space then the D4 did to take larger tyres, so that makes the D5 more bush friendly than the D4. It also has the same size brakes as the D4 so bespoke 18 inch wheels produced for the D4 will also fit the D5.
So it should be possible to fit 18s to a D5 with taller tyres than could be fitted to the D4. So that's good news.

There’s a catch.. the Compomotive need reworking as the offset has changed and the current D4 sized units hit the arms..

[weeds]

LR invests a lot of marketing money proclaiming the d5 to have excellent off road ability. Problem is people aren't stupid.

Im about to ruffle a lot of feathers here but a d5 is not a serious offroad vehcile. Its to expensive, complicated suspension, small wheels with a stupid tyre size, body panels are to exposed to damage and its a simply too fancy with too many potential problems.

Before anyone passes judgement and says im biased and dont know what im talking about; i own a y62 and its tough as nails, relaible and relatively simple compared to the d5 but i dont consider it a serious offroad vehicle either and at least they have a reputation for getting used and abused by our friends in the middle east for what nissan built them to do. The patrol has many of the same issues i just listed above except for the fact that is has a proper offroad friendly tyre size.

If i was arb would i invest in the d5? No! Id rather spend money developing products for the dual cab ute segment, jeep, landcruisers, ford, mazda etc. The disco ain't no offroader, its a vehcile made for feminists to claim offroad "equality" when doing the school run! Lol , politically incorrect and true [emoji48][emoji48]LR built the ulimate feminist vehicle!

Exactly, the all new defender ‘land rover’ will be pitching it against the dual cab brigade....not sure of the number ms in other countries but in Aus it’s a pretty big market....than the battle is to convince people to change marquee which will be very tough.....therefore the all new defender will be aimed at European market.

[scarry]

LR invests a lot of marketing money proclaiming the d5 to have excellent off road ability. Problem is people aren't stupid.

Im about to ruffle a lot of feathers here but a d5 is not a serious offroad vehcile. Its to expensive, complicated suspension, small wheels with a stupid tyre size, body panels are to exposed to damage and its a simply too fancy with too many potential problems.

Before anyone passes judgement and says im biased and dont know what im talking about; i own a y62 and its tough as nails, relaible and relatively simple compared to the d5 but i dont consider it a serious offroad vehicle either and at least they have a reputation for getting used and abused by our friends in the middle east for what nissan built them to do. The patrol has many of the same issues i just listed above except for the fact that is has a proper offroad friendly tyre size.

If i was arb would i invest in the d5? No! Id rather spend money developing products for the dual cab ute segment, jeep, landcruisers, ford, mazda etc. The disco ain't no offroader, its a vehcile made for feminists to claim offroad "equality" when doing the school run! Lol , politically incorrect and true [emoji48][emoji48]LR built the ulimate feminist vehicle!


We could go on for ever about this,lets just hope the new Deefer is attractive to us D3/4 owners,and those that want a reasonably priced off road touring wagon.....,not a Range Rover with a Discovery badge on the front[bighmmm]

[weeds]

I hope I'm wrong but I can't really see the 'new' Defender being anything more than a glorified hairdressers car/SUV. Landrover started getting out of the game of making truly off road 4WD's long ago. The Range Rover and Discovery lines became softer and more luxurious at the expense of utilitarian capability; fine on road 4WD's suited to a more European or American market and with the demise of the Defender Elvis had well and truly left the room. :(

Odds are the new Defender will be an alloy monocoque air bag sprung macho looking soft roader capitalising on the Defender name and reputation aimed at the poseur market. IMO it is unlikely to be a true 4WD suitable for 'touring and remote offroaders for Australian conditions'. I will be absolutely ecstatic if I'm proved wrong. :)

Deano :)

I’m pretty sure there are many cars on the market that go touring and remote 4WDing in Aus....plenty of late model Land Rover owners currently doing it.

If I had the coin I’d ditch the defender......but value for money I’m happy enough with the defender with average air-con, no radio, road noise, heat ......

[1nando]

Disagree mate. LR has clearly stated it will be the most off road capable vehicle ever produced, thats a big call! They've also said there will be a ute.

In order to make that call they would definitely look at what sells in offroad markets. The 2 biggest offroad market where LR has had decent sucess in Aus and Africa. What vehicles sell in these 2 continents? 70 series and hilux are the most common id say and guessing by Andrew st Pierres comments id say thats a fair assumption. Hate them or love them these 2 vehicles are common, tough and beem around a long time then consider the ranger which is popular in Australia and LR has all the intel it needs to built a potential segment winner. Targeting a ute to the european market is like targeting a v8 petrol patrol at europe.....not going to happen!

I honestly believe LR's only way of protecting and maintaining their off road ability reputation will be through the new defender. If they dont sales will drop over time as many people buy LR's as a luxury car with "offroad" ability and dream of adventurous travels they'll more than likely never experience. If they dont keep to their offroad heritage then people start lppking at other european vehicles with no offroad ability like Audi, Mercedes, BMW etc. LR's point of difference with all of these is its so called offroad ability and heritage, without that their vehciles arw just over priced tanks like the rest of the segment



Exactly, the all new defender ‘land rover’ will be pitching it against the dual cab brigade....not sure of the number ms in other countries but in Aus it’s a pretty big market....than the battle is to convince people to change marquee which will be very tough.....therefore the all new defender will be aimed at European market.

[weeds]

Disagree mate. LR has clearly stated it will be the most off road capable vehicle ever produced, thats a big call! They've also said there will be a ute.

In order to make that call they would definitely look at what sells in offroad markets. The 2 biggest offroad market where LR has had decent sucess in Aus and Africa. What vehicles sell in these 2 continents? 70 series and hilux are the most common id say and guessing by Andrew st Pierres comments id say thats a fair assumption. Hate them or love them these 2 vehicles are common, tough and beem around a long time then consider the ranger which is popular in Australia and LR has all the intel it needs to built a potential segment winner. Targeting a ute to the european market is like targeting a v8 petrol patrol at europe.....not going to happen!

I honestly believe LR's only way of protecting and maintaining their off road ability reputation will be through the new defender. If they dont sales will drop over time as many people buy LR's as a luxury car with "offroad" ability and dream of adventurous travels they'll more than likely never experience.

Guess we’ll have to wait and see......marketing hype is one thing, sales is another otherwise it’ll be a flop.

[Tombie]

Apparently the definition in this thread of “off road suitable” is

Box shaped
Cheese axles
1950 ergonomics
Tin and Aluminium construction

Anything with so much as a compound curve, ultra alloy body or so much as a BT connection is completely unsuitable for such folly as a journey into the outback.


Unless of course it has some stupid 3 oval badge and is living only on past reputation. Or the word of one Safa!
Those modern ones break more often than they care to admit.

This thread is pure gold [emoji41]

[ozscott]

I like Bluetooth. I retrofitted it to my D2. [emoji16][emoji16][emoji23] I have gone soft. Cheers

[Tombie]

I like Bluetooth. I retrofitted it to my D2. [emoji16][emoji16][emoji23] I have gone soft. Cheers

It gets even worse over here. Mrs Tombies Defender has BT, factory. As well as electric windows!

It’s terrible to think neither of our vehicles are capable of going off road.


What ever shall we do? [emoji48]🤪[emoji41]

[loanrangie]

Any other good news?[biggrin][biggrin]


As for AllTerr,yes, correct,but the issue is there is nothing in the pipeline for the D5,ARB, as an example have said publicly that they have no interest in developing anything for the vehicle.
Maybe some other manufacturer is doing something?
You would think by now we would have heard of something,particularly as the vehicle has now been around for quite a while.Less than a year isn't very long.

[loanrangie]

Let's face it, big wagons are bought by grey nomads or tourers. Any one doing hard core offroading is using a 10 plus yo vehicle.

[Zeros]

I
If I had the coin I’d ditch the defender......but value for money I’m happy enough with the defender with average air-con, no radio, road noise, heat ......

Weeds! You blaspheme! ...so you’d swap your Defender for a D5?

[Zeros]

The US market is predominantly massive utes. A new Defender 130 could fit in perfectly.

The LR Ford genetic connection is obvious when you look at the new Ford Explorer, looks like a beefy D5. If those cues are continued with the new Defender it could do well in US. Though not sure how the D5 is doing in US...does anyone know the stats?

[Chops]

I'm not quite sure which way to go with this, but anyway.

I got rid of the Defender because we needed comfort,, it was a good rig, but I didn't upgrade anything, other than a winch etc.
I guess though, as I get older, and hopefully wiser, I like the creature comforts of the lux wagon. However, with age has also came some wisdom in the form of the realization that playing hard equals damage,, costs money and time,, neither of which we have at our disposal,, and I would suggest, most here dont either. Going hard core in the bush is fine if you can afford it, and it probably doesn't matter what car your in.

I see people going on about problematic tyre sizes etc with the Disco's 4 and 5's. Well, there has to be a compromise somewhere, and if you want handling at speed, tyre's are a must,, Speed does not equal a Defender [bigwhistle].

But lets ask the question,,, how many Defender drivers change they're tyre's, to go either fatter or taller. So suddenly, your not happy with your Defender's either really. So if it basically becomes "the norm" to upgrade Defer tyre's, why is it so wrong for Disco drivers to swap out they're tyre's?

If your going to go "crashing through the bush", wouldn't it make more sense to buy something "cheap and nasty", change it all to how you want it,,, (obviously everybody seems to want the next best thing to a bull dozer for this), then go and destroy it every time you hit the bush? I don't need a bull dozer these days,, I'd like to think I'm a better driver than when I was twenty, and can pick a better line, or have more respect for my car and ultimately, my life.

The D5 has been tested hard by LR, and no doubt time will tell just how well it does in real life. Those who own them, tell me they perform better than the D4. As time moves on, kit will be made for them,,, Ben is already on the case for some stuff. I had the option to wait for the D5, but chose not to due to it being the first of the run,,, I'd sooner wait for it to have been in production for a couple of years. The bugs will be ironed out by then.

Anyone who tours in any sort of a wagon now, will be able to do the exact same in a D5. Of course it will be different to pack etc,, but you'll work it. If your in to bush bashing, then I suspect you'd upgrade to a similar vehicle to do the same. If your not really into Disco's now,, you possibly never will be. Again, time will tell, we all get older, and start to prefer the comforts.

[Tombie]

Has your beard for longer Chops?

You seem wiser [emoji48]🤪

[Zeros]

For most it’s also about price. D5’s are expensive luxury vehicles. Even the highest priced Defenders cost less. Most dual cabs cost half.

...if price is no object, and let’s face it an equipped D5 costs virtually $100k ...it makes me wonder why the G Professional isn’t talked about more here in comparison?

[Tombie]

Probably because it’s $109k plus on roads.

Has no comforts, a low output engine - 400nm in a 100k vehicle isn’t going to cut it!
Low and extremely vulnerable alternator
Seats 4 only, can only tow 3,150kg
Has a fuel tank just 5 litres bigger than a D4.
With the winch prep package and a few comforts at $12k it’s hardly a good sell....

And they tip over quite nicely!!!

[cuppabillytea]

Oh dear,,, .I think my wisdom is diminishing with age,[bigsad]

[tc_s1]

I'm not quite sure which way to go with this, but anyway.

I got rid of the Defender because we needed comfort,, it was a good rig, but I didn't upgrade anything, other than a winch etc.
I guess though, as I get older, and hopefully wiser, I like the creature comforts of the lux wagon. However, with age has also came some wisdom in the form of the realization that playing hard equals damage,, costs money and time,, neither of which we have at our disposal,, and I would suggest, most here dont either. Going hard core in the bush is fine if you can afford it, and it probably doesn't matter what car your in.

I see people going on about problematic tyre sizes etc with the Disco's 4 and 5's. Well, there has to be a compromise somewhere, and if you want handling at speed, tyre's are a must,, Speed does not equal a Defender [bigwhistle].

But lets ask the question,,, how many Defender drivers change they're tyre's, to go either fatter or taller. So suddenly, your not happy with your Defender's either really. So if it basically becomes "the norm" to upgrade Defer tyre's, why is it so wrong for Disco drivers to swap out they're tyre's?

If your going to go "crashing through the bush", wouldn't it make more sense to buy something "cheap and nasty", change it all to how you want it,,, (obviously everybody seems to want the next best thing to a bull dozer for this), then go and destroy it every time you hit the bush? I don't need a bull dozer these days,, I'd like to think I'm a better driver than when I was twenty, and can pick a better line, or have more respect for my car and ultimately, my life.

The D5 has been tested hard by LR, and no doubt time will tell just how well it does in real life. Those who own them, tell me they perform better than the D4. As time moves on, kit will be made for them,,, Ben is already on the case for some stuff. I had the option to wait for the D5, but chose not to due to it being the first of the run,,, I'd sooner wait for it to have been in production for a couple of years. The bugs will be ironed out by then.

Anyone who tours in any sort of a wagon now, will be able to do the exact same in a D5. Of course it will be different to pack etc,, but you'll work it. If your in to bush bashing, then I suspect you'd upgrade to a similar vehicle to do the same. If your not really into Disco's now,, you possibly never will be. Again, time will tell, we all get older, and start to prefer the comforts.While I do not disagree with many of the age related points made, i didn't get my first Defender until I was nearly 50. I consider its ride to be good insurance against kidney stones and thusfar havent had them whilst driving it, so am sticking with that. [emoji16]

[1nando]

I'm not quite sure which way to go with this, but anyway.

I got rid of the Defender because we needed comfort,, it was a good rig, but I didn't upgrade anything, other than a winch etc.
I guess though, as I get older, and hopefully wiser, I like the creature comforts of the lux wagon. However, with age has also came some wisdom in the form of the realization that playing hard equals damage,, costs money and time,, neither of which we have at our disposal,, and I would suggest, most here dont either. Going hard core in the bush is fine if you can afford it, and it probably doesn't matter what car your in.

I see people going on about problematic tyre sizes etc with the Disco's 4 and 5's. Well, there has to be a compromise somewhere, and if you want handling at speed, tyre's are a must,, Speed does not equal a Defender [bigwhistle].

But lets ask the question,,, how many Defender drivers change they're tyre's, to go either fatter or taller. So suddenly, your not happy with your Defender's either really. So if it basically becomes "the norm" to upgrade Defer tyre's, why is it so wrong for Disco drivers to swap out they're tyre's?

If your going to go "crashing through the bush", wouldn't it make more sense to buy something "cheap and nasty", change it all to how you want it,,, (obviously everybody seems to want the next best thing to a bull dozer for this), then go and destroy it every time you hit the bush? I don't need a bull dozer these days,, I'd like to think I'm a better driver than when I was twenty, and can pick a better line, or have more respect for my car and ultimately, my life.

The D5 has been tested hard by LR, and no doubt time will tell just how well it does in real life. Those who own them, tell me they perform better than the D4. As time moves on, kit will be made for them,,, Ben is already on the case for some stuff. I had the option to wait for the D5, but chose not to due to it being the first of the run,,, I'd sooner wait for it to have been in production for a couple of years. The bugs will be ironed out by then.

Anyone who tours in any sort of a wagon now, will be able to do the exact same in a D5. Of course it will be different to pack etc,, but you'll work it. If your in to bush bashing, then I suspect you'd upgrade to a similar vehicle to do the same. If your not really into Disco's now,, you possibly never will be. Again, time will tell, we all get older, and start to prefer the comforts.Changing tyre size to a larger diameter on a defender is a luxury that disco 4 and 5 do not have.
Its not about bush bashing but rather how well a vehicle is suited to its particular environment and there are some basics that will always make for a better offroader:
-Smaller/narrower wheel track
-Large tyre with decent side wall
-Body panels which dont bulge past the wheels
-live axles

Love comfort, appreciate safety and nothing puts a bigger smile on my fave than power however in my opinion a true offroader thats going to get used for purpose needs some fundamemtals that you just cant get away from.

If they can build a defender based on the d4 with a decent tyre size and live axles id put my money down in a heart beat. That wont happen though and im sure they'll go with air suspension which i don't like at all.
However they will be onto a winner i reckon if its d4 based. Since the defender production ended i now look at the new models and think to myself that the d4 and pumas were even more amazing then when they first came out. I hope the new defender dosent dissapoint.

[Chops]

Changing tyre size to a larger diameter on a defender is a luxury that disco 4 and 5 do not have.
Its not about bush bashing but rather how well a vehicle is suited to its particular environment and there are some basics that will always make for a better offroader:
-Smaller/narrower wheel track
-Large tyre with decent side wall
-Body panels which dont bulge past the wheels
-live axles

Love comfort, appreciate safety and nothing puts a bigger smile on my fave than power however in my opinion a true offroader thats going to get used for purpose needs some fundamemtals that you just cant get away from.

If they can build a defender based on the d4 with a decent tyre size and live axles id put my money down in a heart beat. That wont happen though and im sure they'll go with air suspension which i don't like at all.
However they will be onto a winner i reckon if its d4 based. Since the defender production ended i now look at the new models and think to myself that the d4 and pumas were even more amazing then when they first came out. I hope the new defender dosent dissapoint.


I get where your coming from with your points,,, but that suits about 20+ years ago now. In my younger years, we explored and made our own tracks, you can't really do that sort of stuff now. Theoretically, you have to stay on the track. And just how much wider over all, is the Disco? A few inches wont change much in reality.
Overall, I just cant see where a Defender (in they're current form ) will outshine the new Discos. It will be good to see what comes with the new Defender, and perhaps it may even take my fancy.

I'm not sure we need bigger wheels, we already have massive ground clearance now,, like i said earlier, people want bull dozers [bigwhistle]

[DiscoMick]

Apparently the D5 has space to go up a tyre size on the standard wheels.
Body shape is just styling - the Hilux is pretty curvy.
Defender spy shots show rear coils.
LR wants the Discovery and Defender to be different vehicle families.

[weeds]

Weeds! You blaspheme! ...so you’d swap your Defender for a D5?

Yep....when Daniel works out how to fit a Poptop

Although I’m not big on having a large amount of money tied up in a car.....

[ramblingboy42]

My info six months back from the inside was NO to air suspension as they could not get the performance out of the suspension. But that was six months back and model specification would not have been totally finalised but exceptionally close I would think as they normally lock that sort of stuff away 2 years or more into product development.

Still I will be happy with either quite frankly

Rob

What qualifies you for "inside information" when no one else in the world gets any?

No one has inside info. None has been released....has it?

I get sick of hearing this stuff.

[ramblingboy42]

Changing tyre size to a larger diameter on a defender is a luxury that disco 4 and 5 do not have.
Its not about bush bashing but rather how well a vehicle is suited to its particular environment and there are some basics that will always make for a better offroader:
-Smaller/narrower wheel track
-Large tyre with decent side wall
-Body panels which dont bulge past the wheels
-live axles

Love comfort, appreciate safety and nothing puts a bigger smile on my fave than power however in my opinion a true offroader thats going to get used for purpose needs some fundamemtals that you just cant get away from.

If they can build a defender based on the d4 with a decent tyre size and live axles id put my money down in a heart beat. That wont happen though and im sure they'll go with air suspension which i don't like at all.
However they will be onto a winner i reckon if its d4 based. Since the defender production ended i now look at the new models and think to myself that the d4 and pumas were even more amazing then when they first came out. I hope the new defender dosent dissapoint.

Like your comments but what tyre suspension setups are being used in the Dakkar races?

[ozscott]

Fair to say we know it won't be set up like a H1...so if no air suspension and independent susp then...what a Prado with extra clearance. Wow. Cheers

[donh54]

Like your comments but what tyre suspension setups are being used in the Dakkar races?That's like comparing F1 or V8 Supercar suspension setups to your road car. Totally different design parameters. The component costs of PD suspension would exceed the cost of the rest of the car.

[loanrangie]

If you look at what every other manufacturer is currently offering in the 4x4 segment really only the 200 series and at a stretch the Y62 are big mostly boxy vehicles, even the ute based Everest/MXU/Fortuner/Paj sport/challenger etc have gone to a predominantly road focused shape at the expense of the utilitarian box shape we all love and makes for a better cargo/camper/tourer setup.

[trout1105]

Changing tyre size to a larger diameter on a defender is a luxury that disco 4 and 5 do not have.
Its not about bush bashing but rather how well a vehicle is suited to its particular environment and there are some basics that will always make for a better offroader:
-Smaller/narrower wheel track
-Large tyre with decent side wall
-Body panels which dont bulge past the wheels
-live axles

Love comfort, appreciate safety and nothing puts a bigger smile on my fave than power however in my opinion a true offroader thats going to get used for purpose needs some fundamemtals that you just cant get away from.

The D1 and D2 had these attributes and that is why they were and still are so popular But since the D3 came out all this changed.
Yes the D3, D4 and even the D5 are all Great cars But they are a luxury SUV and are not a purpose built 4WD tourer like the Defender, Nissan and Toyota offerings are.
The Defender has always been a true off roader that filled the gap between the luxury Discoveries in the Landrover range and to change the basic configuration of it will alienate the Defender/Series crew and they will buy a different brand.
I recently looked at buying a D4 or Defender because I needed a good tough No nonsense 4WD to tow a 2.5t caravan on and off road with ease and to be able to carry at least 500kg as well as the van.
The D4 didn't meet these requirements and the Defenders were just too expensive so I bought a 79 Series Toyota instead.

[Zeros]

Yep....when Daniel works out how to fit a Poptop

Although I’m not big on having a large amount of money tied up in a car.....

Has he said he will? Otherwise I can’t see that happening, difficult roof structure. Would have to be very high and there would be limited room in the back for kitchens, etc. ...more likely a G Professional for similar money. Both would be $100k + tied up in a vehicle. Defender with pop top for half that still looks good to me.

[Zeros]

The D1 and D2 had these attributes and that is why they were and still are so popular But since the D3 came out all this changed.
Yes the D3, D4 and even the D5 are all Great cars But they are a luxury SUV and are not a purpose built 4WD tourer like the Defender, Nissan and Toyota offerings are.
The Defender has always been a true off roader that filled the gap between the luxury Discoveries in the Landrover range and to change the basic configuration of it will alienate the Defender/Series crew and they will buy a different brand.
I recently looked at buying a D4 or Defender because I needed a good tough No nonsense 4WD to tow a 2.5t caravan on and off road with ease and to be able to carry at least 500kg as well as the van.
The D4 didn't meet these requirements and the Defenders were just too expensive so I bought a 79 Series Toyota instead.
All interesting and very valid points, though I’d be surprised if a 79 series were less expensive than a Defender? Around the same price these days IME. But the Toyota with bigger engine would be much better for towing than a Defender.

[Zeros]

If you look at what every other manufacturer is currently offering in the 4x4 segment really only the 200 series and at a stretch the Y62 are big mostly boxy vehicles, even the ute based Everest/MXU/Fortuner/Paj sport/challenger etc have gone to a predominantly road focused shape at the expense of the utilitarian box shape we all love and makes for a better cargo/camper/tourer setup.

200’s and Y62’s aren’t boxy either, just big. They are fat, curved beasts with curved plastic interiors, carpets and thirsty engines. The D5 is now a curved beast too with a more economical engine choice. ...none are utilitarian box shaped vehicles.

The D4 was more box shaped, which is the main reason people are dissppointed with the D5 and waiting for the new Defender, or buying 79 series Toyota’s. If the D5 had retained the D1-4 bixiness we wouldn’t be having this discussion.

[loanrangie]

200’s and Y62’s aren’t boxy either, just big. They are fat, curved beasts with curved plastic interiors, carpets and thirsty engines. The D5 is now a curved beast too with a more economical engine choice. ...none are utilitarian box shaped vehicles.

The D4 was more box shaped, which is the main reason people are dissppointed with the D5 and waiting for the new Defender, or buying 79 series Toyota’s. If the D5 had retained the D1-4 bixiness we wouldn’t be having this discussion.

Thats why i said big and mostly boxy which lends itself to better cargo capacity, D3/4 have a much better interior layout than either of them and hopefully the Pretender will carry on from that design.

[Zeros]

👍 ...the gap on the market is very clear.

[JDNSW]

Just to throw something new into the discussion - I wonder if the changed shape of the D5 is so as to leave room for a new Defender that otherwise would look too much like the Discovery? If this is the case, we could expect the new Defender to have a lot in common (as far as shape goes) with the D4. I expect it will have a lot in common structurally and mechanically anyway.

[dirvine]

All interesting and very valid points, though I’d be surprised if a 79 series were less expensive than a Defender? Around the same price these days IMO. But the Toyota with bigger engine would be much better for towing than a Defender.

Toyota might be better for towing than a Defender but certainly not a D4. I bought a D4 and a 76 Toyota both brand new with the aim of using the 76 for towing a 2.4T van around Aus. I put in an Auto and a few other bits and then went away for a week in each vehicle to see which was best. This is my assessment:
1. Toyota is uncomfortable noisy and a real pain to drive.
2. It uses considerably more fuel than the D4.
3. It cost more to service than the D4 whilst I owned it (30,000 kms for both at the time)
4.Once you master the electronics of a D4 and get the proper wheels and other bits (which made it more expensive than the Toyota in the end) it is just a capable.
5. However as the cars get older I guess I would have more confidence in the Toyota in the reliability stakes.
However having said that, my son got a nice Christmas present last year and he is very happy!!

[trout1105]

Toyota might be better for towing than a Defender but certainly not a D4. I bought a D4 and a 76 Toyota both brand new with the aim of using the 76 for towing a 2.4T van around Aus. I put in an Auto and a few other bits and then went away for a week in each vehicle to see which was best. This is my assessment:
1. Toyota is uncomfortable noisy and a real pain to drive.
2. It uses considerably more fuel than the D4.
3. It cost more to service than the D4 whilst I owned it (30,000 kms for both at the time)
4.Once you master the electronics of a D4 and get the proper wheels and other bits (which made it more expensive than the Toyota in the end) it is just a capable.
5. However as the cars get older I guess I would have more confidence in the Toyota in the reliability stakes.
However having said that, my son got a nice Christmas present last year and he is very happy!!

The Main reason I went with the far less comfortable 79 series option was its carrying capacity ( much more than the D4), it's reliability factor and the vast support network that Toyota has in Australia.
With the recommended service intervals on the D4's it doesn't install any confidence in me that it would be a viable long term ownership vehicle.
Just like the Defenders the 79 series utes also have a very good resale value as well.[thumbsupbig]

[1nando]

Y62s, 200s, disco 5, range rover, prado, pretty much all utes except the 70 series, mux, pajero, im sure ive missed a few are great offroad vehicles well suited to touring and family travel. Even the elephant in the room the y62 has a long range tank option offering 290 litres and around 1500km range easily.

However none of these are serious off roaders! Serious offroad new vehciles off the show room floor are wrangler, g wagen, 70 series and thats about it! New defender could quiet easily fall into this niche if LR delivers whats been promised. Hopes up

[ozscott]

Dirvine I think the big difference is that with very little outlay and only very minor loss in on road performance the D2 and Defender can and do outperform a D3 or D4 on the most rugged off-road areas. That's my experience in arduous areas where all vehicles are very heavily loaded including the roof. In the same circumstances a 75 series with very large tyres, big lift and lockers front and rear didn't do better OR worse off-road than a mildly modified d2. I have a high regard for d3 and d4 but once legal mods begin that's where the differences become apparent. Live axle 4wds are legally able to go up more in tyre size And of course the d2/defender eith even a fairly modest lift has more clearance than a D3/4. And the stability of live axle is unbeatable for my money if the new Deefer will (and we are.speculating) be IS with no air. If it's not at least live axle rear I doubt I would be interested.

Cheers

[scarry]

One massive advantage of the D3/4 is the clearance under the vehicle,no diffs to get hung up on.

In super extended off road height setting it gets pretty high.

Anyway off to get some🍿and wait for others to chime in[biggrin][biggrin]

[Tombie]

I’m just bemused by the “Toyota support network” comments...

[weeds]

I’m just bemused by the “Toyota support network” comments...

Agree.....

Although my company hi-lux hasn’t missed a beat in 3 years 150k......FRYLYT’s failed on me last night, can I blame that on Toyota.

[ozscott]

Scary there would be some tracks where that certainly helps but in my experience it doesn't help most of the time. There are some local.tracks where this is the case but where it was really obvious was the steep ramp.overs out of creeks in the far north where the IS Rovers in their highest mode just kept getting stuck for travel. Winches were broken out. The 100 inch D2s with a 2 inch lift and 31s just walked up and over. In stock from in most places the D3/4 is more capable than a stock.d2 but I did make it clear that I was talking modified. Overall though what makes a D3/4 a clear winner over Pajero is air suspension. I just can't see how.Defender can be the best of the LR stable with IS and no air, but we will have to.see. Cheers
One massive advantage of the D3/4 is the clearance under the vehicle,no diffs to get hung up on.

In super extended off road height setting it gets pretty high.

Anyway off to get some[emoji897]and wait for others to chime in[biggrin][biggrin]

[scarry]

Agree.....

Although my company hi-lux hasn’t missed a beat in 3 years 150k......FRYLYT’s failed on me last night, can I blame that on Toyota.

They aren't ever interested in a real warranty claim,so good luck,let us know how you go[biggrin]

Since having tojo vans,we have done over 1000000 K's,and had one diff rebuilt.

Acceptable i suppose..[bigwhistle]

[trout1105]

The Defender is a Bloody good 4WD in its current form, It would be lunacy to change its basic configuration just for "fashions" sake.
Maybe a bigger engine with more "Grunt" (diesel V8 would be nice) and maybe an option for an auto box But as far as the rest of the truck is concerned why fix something that isn't broke.

[Zeros]

Just to throw something new into the discussion - I wonder if the changed shape of the D5 is so as to leave room for a new Defender that otherwise would look too much like the Discovery? If this is the case, we could expect the new Defender to have a lot in common (as far as shape goes) with the D4. I expect it will have a lot in common structurally and mechanically anyway.

Yes you’re probably right John. Interesting though that the D5 has lost any distinctive characteristics of the D1-4, in favour looking like all other Land Rover/Range Rover products.
Hopefully Defender will be distinctive.

[1nando]

Sneak peak perhaps? Just stumbled across this pichttps://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2018/05/489.jpg

[cripesamighty]

I think that is the DC100 concept vehicle from 4 or 5 years ago, which got almost universally bagged out and thus sent Land Rover back to the drawing board.....

[Zeros]

Sneak peak perhaps? Just stumbled across this pichttps://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2018/05/489.jpg

That looks like the old concept vehicle.

[Zeros]

I’m just bemused by the “Toyota support network” comments...
Youve clearly never broken down in a remote area and been refused service by a ‘Toyota’ mechanic.

[loanrangie]

The Defender is a Bloody good 4WD in its current form, It would be lunacy to change its basic configuration just for "fashions" sake.
Maybe a bigger engine with more "Grunt" (diesel V8 would be nice) and maybe an option for an auto box But as far as the rest of the truck is concerned why fix something that isn't broke.

But the Defender has been bordering on illegal for many years, poor or no ANCAP rating, no airbags and the interior ergonomics of an abattoir. Had they stepped up the development at the time of the TD5 release it would be a different vehicle and might actually been able to compete with the Asian offerings.

[Tombie]

Agree.....

Although my company hi-lux hasn’t missed a beat in 3 years 150k......FRYLYT’s failed on me last night, can I blame that on Toyota.

What happened?

[Tombie]

Youve clearly never broken down in a remote area and been refused service by a ‘Toyota’ mechanic.

You’re correct... I’ve never broken down in a remote area.

I did have a failure to proceed - 6’ of Red at 110km/h will do that... and the ‘Toyota’ mechanic was more than helpful. In fact his words “rarely get a chance to work on these. I did fix a head gasket a month or so ago.”

So what’s that say? I haven’t had a breakdown.
Good maintenance strategy. Mechanically sympathetic but never baby my vehicles. And I always use the best quality parts.

Damn these reliable vehicles...

[Tombie]

Scary there would be some tracks where that certainly helps but in my experience it doesn't help most of the time. There are some local.tracks where this is the case but where it was really obvious was the steep ramp.overs out of creeks in the far north where the IS Rovers in their highest mode just kept getting stuck for travel. Winches were broken out. The 100 inch D2s with a 2 inch lift and 31s just walked up and over. In stock from in most places the D3/4 is more capable than a stock.d2 but I did make it clear that I was talking modified. Overall though what makes a D3/4 a clear winner over Pajero is air suspension. I just can't see how.Defender can be the best of the LR stable with IS and no air, but we will have to.see. Cheers

When you’re finished comparing apples with oranges...

Only comparison can be done between the D2 and RRS... same wheelbase..

[Zeros]

You’re correct... I’ve never broken down in a remote area.

I did have a failure to proceed - 6’ of Red at 110km/h will do that... and the ‘Toyota’ mechanic was more than helpful. In fact his words “rarely get a chance to work on these. I did fix a head gasket a month or so ago.”

So what’s that say? I haven’t had a breakdown.
Good maintenance strategy. Mechanically sympathetic but never baby my vehicles. And I always use the best quality parts.

Damn these reliable vehicles...

Yep good strategy all round and glad to hear you found a good mechanic in your time of need.👍 ...but I reckon you would have a different view if you broke down in different circumstances.

[Tombie]

Yep good strategy all round and glad to hear you found a good mechanic in your time of need.[emoji106] ...but I reckon you would have a different view if you broke down in different circumstances.

Nope. I’d just fix it..

Like I do for my mates on trips.. when they have problems. For the record on a trip along the Transcontinental - the only vehicle to not have mechanical, electrical or tyre problems was the D4...

[Zeros]

Nope. I’d just fix it..

Like I do for my mates on trips.. when they have problems. For the record on a trip along the Transcontinental - the only vehicle to not have mechanical, electrical or tyre problems was the D4...

Then clearly someone with extensive mechanical expertise such as yourself, and with extensive experience of needing to help your mates in such situations, can see how those of us who are not mechanics may need mechanical support for our Land Rovers (or whatever brand we drive) outside the cities from time to time. Hence our concern about the dire lack of Land Rover support outside of major centres. We can’t all be mechanics by trade or travel with mates who are. The majority buying a new D5 would be in that position. Cheers

[rar110]

Someone posted this earlier, but it seems to be the best official indication of the new Defender shape.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2018/05/495.jpg

[Zeros]

Yup, looks just like post#902 in this thread. A retro Bondi pose mobile.

[Tombie]

Yup, looks just like post#902 in this thread. A retro Bondi pose mobile.

Some curvature doesn’t equal unfit for purpose.

[Tombie]

Then clearly someone with extensive mechanical expertise such as yourself, and with extensive experience of needing to help your mates in such situations, can see how those of us who are not mechanics may need mechanical support for our Land Rovers (or whatever brand we drive) outside the cities from time to time. Hence our concern about the dire lack of Land Rover support outside of major centres. We can’t all be mechanics by trade or travel with mates who are. The majority buying a new D5 would be in that position. Cheers

Maybe. But out there everything goes on a flat bed if necessary!

[tact]

Then clearly someone with extensive mechanical expertise such as yourself, and with extensive experience of needing to help your mates in such situations, can see how those of us who are not mechanics may need mechanical support for our Land Rovers (or whatever brand we drive) outside the cities from time to time. Hence our concern about the dire lack of Land Rover support outside of major centres. We can’t all be mechanics by trade or travel with mates who are. The majority buying a new D5 would be in that position. Cheers

When all you need to get by in a remote area is reasonable proximity to a cooperative dealership (as opposed to having relevant mechanical/electronic knowledge and spares to be self sufficient).. watch out - the road paving crew aren't far behind you.

[Zeros]

Maybe. But out there everything goes on a flat bed if necessary!

Flatbed to where?

[Zeros]

When all you need to get by in a remote area is reasonable proximity to a cooperative dealership (as opposed to having relevant mechanical/electronic knowledge and spares to be self sufficient).. watch out - the road paving crew aren't far behind you.

Uh, obviously. A dealership is NEVER all you need.

...and that’s the way it’s going anyway. Soon it will all be Velar country.

[Tombie]

Flatbed to where?

Really?

Stop being so daft...

[Zeros]

Really?

Stop being so daft...

Stop being so self centred

[rar110]

I think a repair in the field simple vehicle is something like a 4DB1, 300tdi or earlier. Anything later you have an ecu and electronic fuel pump. Those days are long gone.

On the plus side Land Rover (Ford) electronics seem very reliable from about 2005.

[Tombie]

Stop being so self centred

So you don’t get on with Bush mechanics,
You claim that tow trucks have nowhere to go with a Landy onboard,
You accuse somebody of needing to get out more,
You belittle everything about the marque of this board,
You claim to be well heeled yet can’t fathom that times have changed...

Off you go, on another adventure... I’m sure there’s a Bushy somewhere you haven’t managed to **** off yet.

[ozscott]

Until they wade too deep RAR. Then pre 2005 is easier to deal with (not through better quality just less systems to cause problems - like locking the CDL randomly) None are as good as a mechanical injection diesel! (Wading)

Cheers

[Zeros]

So you don’t get on with Bush mechanics,
You claim that tow trucks have nowhere to go with a Landy onboard,
You accuse somebody of needing to get out more,
You belittle everything about the marque of this board,
You claim to be well heeled yet can’t fathom that times have changed...

Off you go, on another adventure... I’m sure there’s a Bushy somewhere you haven’t managed to **** off yet.

You’re very good a putting words into people’s mouths. It doesn’t wash with me.

[Tombie]

You’re very good a putting words into people’s mouths. It doesn’t wash with me.

Based on Your posts and your comments, just summarised your drivel.

Couldn’t give a **** if it doesn’t wash with you. Managed to alienate somebody else who provides LR based assistance over this way!

What a legend...

No further correspondence will be entered into.

[Zeros]

Based on Your posts and your comments, just summarised your drivel.

Couldn’t give a **** if it doesn’t wash with you. Managed to alienate somebody else who provides LR based assistance over this way!

What a legend...

No further correspondence will be entered into.

Nasty.

[tact]

I think a repair in the field simple vehicle is something like a 4DB1, 300tdi or earlier. Anything later you have an ecu and electronic fuel pump. Those days are long gone.

On the plus side Land Rover (Ford) electronics seem very reliable from about 2005.

Regards the ECU....
It takes me something like 10 minutes to swap my TDCi ECU out and put the back up in. (Likely a qualified mechanic unafraid to break a fingernail would do it faster).

My experience gained back when my beast was still under warranty, swapping the BAS tuned ECU normally resident out and putting the original ECU unit back in for workshop servicing etc. If i had to do a field swap - no issue. I have the spare, the skill, and the 10 minutes needed.

[ozscott]

I don't think it's the ECU per se that the poster was referring to as problematic but the fact having an ECU means it also has a host of electronic sensors, connectors to sensors etc all able to suffer adversely in water crossings and the like.

Cheers

[tact]

I don't think it's the ECU per se that the poster was referring to as problematic but the fact having an ECU means it also has a host of electronic sensors, connectors to sensors etc all able to suffer adversely in water crossings and the like.

Cheers

I have waded to about 900+ mm (? something like that, tops of headlights were underwater) in my barge and I don't even have a snorkel! Having to hose all the twigs and mud from radiators later was the only consequence.


Sensors to give problems?
- It wasn't a long crossing so water inside the vehicle didn't make it to the throttle position sensor in the footwell. Or fuseboxes/relays etc. Though there is a high tide mud line inside both seat boxes (battery box etc) about 75mm above floor level.
- Fair enough I don't have ABS/TC so no wheel sensors for that.

Not sure what other sensors may give problems. (Not even sure if wheel sensors or throttle pot would suffer terribly....)?

[Disco-tastic]

Yup, looks just like post#902 in this thread. A retro Bondi pose mobile.I love how you can determine the capability and appeal of the new defender based on a few artistic lines. That's a skill I've not seen before.

[Disco-tastic]

I remember watching (not sure where, maybe top gear?) A video on the new discovery (5) where they spoke of the wade testing it went through. Apparently over 900mm it started to float, hence they set it at 900 (I believe the standard intake is also around that height).

It also involved opening the doors at full wading depth and leaving the car to have an hour long bath, before draining the water and letting the car dry out (can't remember how long they gave it) - to pass testing it had to start and drive afterwards.

I thought that was reasonably thorough for a luxury 4wd.

[ozscott]

Tact I have witnessed both the new shape (well D3 and 4) and d2 both suffer from electronics issues post wading over the bonnet. Cheers
I have waded to about 900+ mm (? something like that, tops of headlights were underwater) in my barge and I don't even have a snorkel! Having to hose all the twigs and mud from radiators later was the only consequence.


Sensors to give problems?
- It wasn't a long crossing so water inside the vehicle didn't make it to the throttle position sensor in the footwell. Or fuseboxes/relays etc. Though there is a high tide mud line inside both seat boxes (battery box etc) about 75mm above floor level.
- Fair enough I don't have ABS/TC so no wheel sensors for that.

Not sure what other sensors may give problems. (Not even sure if wheel sensors or throttle pot would suffer terribly....)?

[scarry]

I think a repair in the field simple vehicle is something like a 4DB1, 300tdi or earlier. Anything later you have an ecu and electronic fuel pump. Those days are long gone.

On the plus side Land Rover (Ford) electronics seem very reliable from about 2005.

Even before that,for example with the D2,the electronics were very reliable.

But the owner was still kept busy with other things that didn't behave themselves,particularly with the TD5.[biggrin]

In fact the TD5 injectors were also extremely reliable,probably one of the most reliable injectors in its time.

I remember when the D2 first appeared,everyone said how all that electronics will make them unreliable,how wrong they were.

[rar110]

Even before that,for example with the D2,the electronics were very reliable.

But the owner was still kept busy with other things that didn't behave themselves,particularly with the TD5.[biggrin]

In fact the TD5 injectors were also extremely reliable,probably one of the most reliable injectors in its time.

I remember when the D2 first appeared,everyone said how all that electronics will make them unreliable,how wrong they were.

I agree. The td5 is a very good motor, more so the 2nd editions. Pity there wasn’t enough room to make it a td6. And I think either way they could have gone a bit more cc. But possibly the best LR motor developed.

[loanrangie]

I agree. The td5 is a very good motor, more so the 2nd editions. Pity there wasn’t enough room to make it a td6. And I think either way they could have gone a bit more cc. But possibly the best LR motor developed.

TD5 should have been 3ltr capacity right from the start.

[Tombie]

Agree but let’s not forget their biggest market has a size cap. Hence the small capacity diesels in Europe.

[loanrangie]

Yet you can buy bigger in other vehicles.

[Tombie]

Yet you can buy bigger in other vehicles.

Correct. Comes down to vehicle classification, target audience and price point.

defenders are commercial.

[Zeros]

I love how you can determine the capability and appeal of the new defender based on a few artistic lines. That's a skill I've not seen before.

Thats ok, we’re not all designers / artists, just like we’re not all mechanics.

As I said, the line drawing looks to me like the previous Defender concept vehicle. Which has been widely panned including by Land Rover supposedly.

But then the line drawing of the D5 beside it is pretty accurate. So I remain concerned about how the new Defender will look, based on the line drawing.

To make it really clear, which seems to be necessary to avoid confusion, this is my opinion, IMO, IME etc. If it differs from yours that’s entirely ok by me. Each to their own, afterall aesthetics like many value judgements are entirely subjective. If everyone had the same opinion about everything there would be no need for forums like this.

Diversity is the spice of life IMO, IME, etc.

Cheers, Z

[Zeros]

I really like small capacity diesels. Unless you’re towing something large they make more sense financially and environmentally IMO. The new D5 4 pot sounds brilliant. Perfect for the next Defender, unless it’s hybrid of course, which would be even better IMO.

[trout1105]

Personally i think that the asthetics are not all that important as long as the new defender is as capable or more capable than the old one and also has a better safety rating and better reliability along with making it a true 1 tonner it will be a good vehicle.
It will also have to be competitively priced against it's Asian competitors offerings.
If however all the above is to be sacrificed for the sake of "Style" for the Yuppie market then I imagine that it will be an abject failure.

[Zeros]

...as long the new defender is as capable or more capable than the old one and also has a better safety rating and better reliability along with making it a true 1 tonner it will be a good vehicle.
It will also have to be competitively priced against it's Asian competitors offerings.
If however all the above is to be sacrificed for the sake of "Style" for the Yuppie market then I imagine that it will be an abject failure.

Agreed 👍 however all of this can be achieved with good design too.

[SBD4]

Personally i think that the asthetics are not all that important as long as the new defender is as capable or more capable than the old one and also has a better safety rating and better reliability along with making it a true 1 tonner it will be a good vehicle.
It will also have to be competitively priced against it's Asian competitors offerings.
If however all the above is to be sacrificed for the sake of "Style" for the Yuppie market then I imagine that it will be an abject failure.
Considering the D5 has a payload of over 900KGs unaffected by ball weight I think they'll manage to make sure the new defender keeps up.

[AllTerr]

Personally i think that the asthetics are not all that important as long as the new defender is as capable or more capable than the old one and also has a better safety rating and better reliability along with making it a true 1 tonner it will be a good vehicle.
It will also have to be competitively priced against it's Asian competitors offerings.
If however all the above is to be sacrificed for the sake of "Style" for the Yuppie market then I imagine that it will be an abject failure.I seriously doubt it'll be a true 1 tonner, but if it is, it'll be awesome....

[cjc_td5]

If a few curves above the waist line reduces the wind noise at highway speeds, it'll be a good thing... [emoji106]

[Zeros]

141208

[~Rich~]

Well the reveal of the new Defender is less than 2 weeks away and looking at this photo I’m impressed with it as a replacement for D3 & 4 vehicles.
I’m sure it will be cheaper than a D5 but if choosing Air Suspension it may be close!

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190830/5a1d75ed301506ec2b1fbdbda5b3b1b8.jpg

[DiscoMick]

Considering the D5 has a payload of over 900KGs unaffected by ball weight I think they'll manage to make sure the new defender keeps up.
I'll be surprised if they don't beat the old Defender's payload, which is 1044kg for the 110.

[trout1105]

I'll be surprised if they don't beat the old Defender's payload, which is 1044kg for the 110.

The old defenders have a ladder frame chassis which is designed for heavy payloads, The new defenders chassis is very different and is Not designed for heavy payloads So I think you will be disappointed.

[scarry]

Its got to be priced competitively to sell here in volume,that is more sales than any other model they have.

I still think with EAS,and the large engines it will be around or above $90K.

Around LC200 VX price,and a little less than D5.

The way the D5 is priced with all the add ons is ridiculous,lets hope they don't do the same with the new Defender.

LR need to have a good look at how the opposition models run,and their pricing,if they want to compete with them.

It will also be competing with a vehicle we have not yet seen,thats the LC200 replacement.

[Arapiles]

The old defenders have a ladder frame chassis which is designed for heavy payloads, The new defenders chassis is very different and is Not designed for heavy payloads So I think you will be disappointed.

How do you know that the new Defender has a lower payload than the old one?

[trout1105]

How do you know that the new Defender has a lower payload than the old one?

Call it an educated guess.

[IndusD4]

I was under the impression that the new Defender was built on the same platform as the new Disco. Doesn't the new Disco has an increased payload compared to the D3/D4?

Ron

[Tombie]

I was under the impression that the new Defender was built on the same platform as the new Disco. Doesn't the new Disco has an increased payload compared to the D3/D4?

Ron

Yes, but from what I’m hearing - torsional rigidity isn’t a big thing on a D5.

So much so that an accessory manufacturer is offloading their D5.

[LRD414]

Well the reveal of the new Defender is less than 2 weeks away and looking at this photo I’m impressed with it as a replacement for D3 & 4 vehicles.
Good to see you’re still looking in occasionally Rich. I’m tending to think the same way, fingers crossed.

Cheers,
Scott

[StewG]

One reason I bought a D4 is because it is heavier than my caravan. Loaded up at 3 tonne vs van at 2.5 tonne. Apart from the negatives above that I mostly agree with, the lighter D5 can be seen as another negative under towing conditions. Like the tail wagging the dog. Like others, I am keen to see what the new Defender is like and will hang on to my boxy MY2013 SDV6 HSE for a long time.

Just to balance the picture, If I wasn't towing I would like the D5's better fuel economy and other enhancements. However, I still prefer the boxy shape for practical reasons.

[scarry]

I bet the new Deefer will be same sort of weight as D5,it definitely won't be the weight of a D4.

[SBD4]

One reason I bought a D4 is because it is heavier than my caravan. Loaded up at 3 tonne vs van at 2.5 tonne. Apart from the negatives above that I mostly agree with, the lighter D5 can be seen as another negative under towing conditions. Like the tail wagging the dog. Like others, I am keen to see what the new Defender is like and will hang on to my boxy MY2013 SDV6 HSE for a long time.

Just to balance the picture, If I wasn't towing I would like the D5's better fuel economy and other enhancements. However, I still prefer the boxy shape for practical reasons.

I don't think you'd have anything to worry about with the D5 being lighter. Yes it is lighter....when empty. But that weight loss in the tare weight is given back to you with an increased payload allowing you to carry a lot more in the vehicle (which you can take out of the trailer if you're that worried). So, D5 GVM when loaded is not that much less than the D4 (130Kgs for the SD4 and 90Kgs for the SD6 - both 7 seater). Add to that, the 350Kg towball weight does not come off the payload which is a handy 950Kg approx. depending on features and engine selected.

Based on that, the D5 is miles ahead , IMHO.

The Defender will equal or better these numbers at a guess.

[IndusD4]

Add to that, the 350Kg towball weight does not come off the payload which is a handy 950Kg approx. depending on features and engine selected.

I believe any tow ball weight on the D5 will reduce the payload, which means you have approx 600kg to play with after hooking up a caravan with 350kg pushing down on the tow ball. Still pretty healthy in my opinion. There's been much discussion about that "included 150kg" tow ball weight on the D3/D4 but LRA have a different view where even any tow ball weight on the D3/D4 reduces the payload - see a recent D3/D4 thread on that.

Ron

[scarry]

I bet the new Deefer will be same sort of weight as D5,it definitely won't be the weight of a D4.

Well i was wrong there,depending on specs,D5 is generally lighter than new Defender,and the new Defender is almost as heavy as D4.

Hopefully it will also have a proper jack,not something designed to lift a Corolla.

[veebs]

Well i was wrong there,depending on specs,D5 is generally lighter than new Defender,and the new Defender is almost as heavy as D4.

Hopefully it will also have a proper jack,not something designed to lift a Corolla.

Reading this I thought to myself ‘no way, he must have stuffed that up’. But no, there’s not much in it - maybe 60kg in base specs.

A little disappointing actually, that it is still that heavy... seems underpowered now :-/

[scarry]

Reading this I thought to myself ‘no way, he must have stuffed that up’. But no, there’s not much in it - maybe 60kg in base specs.

A little disappointing actually, that it is still that heavy... seems underpowered now :-/

But i did see a dipstick sticking out of the engine,in one of the vids,but they didn't say which engine,so thats a HUGE plus.

Yes i recon it is a bit underpowered with the diesel.

[rick130]

Yes, but from what I’m hearing - torsional rigidity isn’t a big thing on a D5.

So much so that an accessory manufacturer is offloading their D5.

Interesting.