Disappointed in the D5 / waiting for the Defender

[~Rich~]

Hi all,
Gotta say after having a good look over a D5 today I'm disappointed in it.
Yes it may go much better than the D4 due to the loss of nearly 500kg but other factors leave me cold:

The tailgate - not impressed, even with the inner dropdown section.

The battery being moved to inside one of the rear panels - yes there is space for one up front for a 2nd battery though.

The front bumper hangs way down and underbody bash panels way too thin for my liking.

The fuel tank and exhaust are like the D3/D4 and will be too easily damaged / dented, I've had both replaced in my D3.

The fitting of a spare wheel carrier will be an issue with that wide clamshell tailgate too.
So fitting a long range tank will also be an issue.

Sad :(

I'm now going to hang out for what I hope is a more practical defender, I just hope they fir some specs with the air suspension.

Cheers Rich

[Bytemrk]

I think there a few of us that see things that way Rich...... fingers crossed hey.

[~Rich~]

Oh and the second and third row seats don't fold flat, they are on an incline going upwards towards the front seats.

[cripesamighty]

Crap. Didn't realise that about the rear seats. That counts me out for when the time comes to upgrade. Will see what the Defender horizon brings forth....

[veebs]

Yep, huge shame they decided on this path, though like others i'm hoping the new defender is amazing. The D5 reminds me of the Nissan X-trail progression - the current model is round and boring, the previous model has a big boxy shape still considered more practical. The new version may drive a lot nicer, but when you load these types of cars up with camping gear and hit the bush who cares how nice it is on the freeway!

No idea if it's possible, and probably a fairly minor benefit for massive mechanical complexity, but would love to see central air on the new Deefer. Imagine this, when combined with terrain response - you could dial up sand, and have the car automatically select low range, sand driving characteristics (throttle response, launch control etc), off road height, AND drop tyres to 16psi! Re selecting 'normal' mode would bring a notice up on a screen somewhere asking to confirm required pressures (for example, for when you don't need sand mode and it's associated fuel consumption, but are still on the beach)

One thing is certain - the majority of current disco owners that go offroad are placing a lot of hope in the new Deefer, or preparing their current machines for very long-term ownership!

[scarry]

Yep, huge shame they decided on this path, though like others i'm hoping the new defender is amazing. The D5 reminds me of the Nissan X-trail progression - the current model is round and borning, the previousl model has a big boxy shape still considered more practical. The new version may drive a lot nicer, but when you load these types of cars up with camping gear and hit the bush who cares how nice it is on the freeway!

No idea if it's possible, and probably a fairly minor benefit for massive mechanical complexity, but would love to see central air on the new Deefer. Imagine this, when combined with terrain response - you could dial up sand, and have the car automatically select low range, sand driving characteristics (throttle response, launch control etc), off road height, AND drop tyres to 16psi! Re selecting 'normal' mode would bring a notice up on a screen somewhere asking to confirm required pressures (for example, for when you don't need sand mode and it's associated fuel consumption, but are still on the beach)

One thing is certain - the majority of current disco owners that go offroad are placing a lot of hope in the new Deefer, or preparing their current machines for very long-term ownership!

Or,unfortunately, will move to another brand...

[WhiteD3]

I'm with you Rich.

I could learn to live with the looks from the front but the side profile and rear end leave me cold. For me the tailgate arrangement is a big loser on many fronts. I understand why they did it but still......

I'm not saying 100% no to a D5 but I am going to wait for the 2018 Touareg which I think may be better value (albeit no low range), assuming it sticks with the 3L motor. The Defender dual cab and Merc X will be worth a look later next year but maybe cost prohibitive once optioned up.

Dare I say it..............a Jeep GC Trailhawk which I read as Ford's version of a D4 SDV6 and 20K cheaper than the comparable D5 [bighmmm][bighmmm]

If I was buying right now it'd be a Amorak V6 Highline with a canopy.

[TB]

Damn, you guys are depressing. I'm new to this scene and have been so inspired by all the stories, the mods and methods, the sense of community especially around the Disco and Defender. Now you're making me fear it's the end of the era.

I hope we see lots of innovation and positive stories about getting the most out of the Discovery 5. And I'm withholding judgement on the future of the LR brand until the next Defender comes out. There's a sense from the interviews with LR management that those cars could possibly be pitched right at this market of off road enthusiasts and outback tourers.

Fingers firmly crossed.

[~Rich~]

Damn, you guys are depressing. I'm new to this scene and have been so inspired by all the stories, the mods and methods, the sense of community especially around the Disco and Defender. Now you're making me fear it's the end of the era.

I hope we see lots of innovation and positive stories about getting the most out of the Discovery 5. And I'm withholding judgement on the future of the LR brand until the next Defender comes out. There's a sense from the interviews with LR management that those cars could possibly be pitched right at this market of off road enthusiasts and outback tourers.

Fingers firmly crossed.

I'm not saying the D5 is not a fantastic improvement over its predecessor, just for my intended purpose of long range remote touring and local 4wding it leaves some areas comprised. For the majority of people it will be fine.

[Cannon]

Damn, you guys are depressing. I'm new to this scene and have been so inspired by all the stories, the mods and methods, the sense of community especially around the Disco and Defender. Now you're making me fear it's the end of the era.

I hope we see lots of innovation and positive stories about getting the most out of the Discovery 5. And I'm withholding judgement on the future of the LR brand until the next Defender comes out. There's a sense from the interviews with LR management that those cars could possibly be pitched right at this market of off road enthusiasts and outback tourers.

Fingers firmly crossed.


same thing happened when the D4 was released;)

[Tins]

same thing happened when the D4 was released;)

The D3, perhaps. We were well used to them before there was the D4.

[Cannon]

The D3, perhaps. We were well used to them before there was the D4.

Correct :)[thumbsupbig]

[Shoogs]

Starting to grow on me, I like the look of this one...

EXPLORING THE 2017 LAND ROVER DISCOVERY 5 " D5 " OFF ROAD OPTIONS - Expedition Portal (http://forum.expeditionportal.com/threads/173923-EXPLORING-THE-2017-LAND-ROVER-DISCOVERY-5-quot-D5-quot-OFF-ROAD-OPTIONS)

[discoRRc]

just buy a perentie

[ramblingboy42]

Well, if you are going to wait for the new Defender you better pack a tent and a big lunch. It's not due for release until 2020 and that may mean longer by the time it gets Australian release.

[scarry]

Well, if you are going to wait for the new Defender you better pack a tent and a big lunch. It's not due for release until 2020 and that may mean longer by the time it gets Australian release.

And the first of any new model is usually not real good,so a wait of a year or two,so that will be 2022.

A bloody long wait.:zzz:

[EastFreo]

I am obviously in the minority but I like the shape and the interior looks pretty amazing. More importantly (as it would be her car) the wife loves it.

We recently moved back to the family farm and are now half looking at moving from her Volvo XC60 to a Disco. We have two pups - a lab and a border collie and we need more room. Also we feel a Land Rover should handle the roads better.

We'd like the D5 but currently thinking we may pick up an older D4 for the next couple of years to wait for the D5 to iron out any issues (and by then we may have a new Defender and maybe I can convince her that will be better).

[drivesafe]

We'd like the D5 but currently thinking we may pick up an older D4 for the next couple of years to wait for the D5 to iron out any issues (and by then we may have a new Defender and maybe I can convince her that will be better).
Hi EastFreo, and you are not alone here.


Over the past month or so, I have had quite a few NEW D4 owners ordering DBS kit for their NEW D4s.


Many have made statements similar to yours, where they had been excitedly waiting for the D5, only to be disappointed and have bought a NEW D4 in preference to the underwhelming D5.


On a similar note, I was recently asked by the local LR dealership, to give a quote and possibility of fitting one of my DBS to a new Range Rover Vogue.


After spending some time crawling around a new RRV, I decided it was not worth my time to make up a new kit for these, as there is not likely to be much of a demand for this new RRV model.


After crawling around the new RRV, I was very pleased I have now gone down another road.


I have a new MY17 Tiguan and I was astonished to find the RRV had no more cabin space, and may be even less cabin space than my Tiguan.


My 2007 RRV interior is literally a concert hall compared the the lavotory cubical sized interior of the new RRV.


I did not get a chance to look over a D5 but it sounds like it has been designed with the same CAR size mentality the new RRV is.


It is blatantly obvious that Land Rover is aiming at a different market to it’s traditional one.

[willem]

Damn, you guys are depressing. I'm new to this scene and have been so inspired by all the stories, the mods and methods, the sense of community especially around the Disco and Defender. Now you're making me fear it's the end of the era.

I hope we see lots of innovation and positive stories about getting the most out of the Discovery 5. And I'm withholding judgement on the future of the LR brand until the next Defender comes out. There's a sense from the interviews with LR management that those cars could possibly be pitched right at this market of off road enthusiasts and outback tourers.

Fingers firmly crossed.

I wouldn't get too worried if I were you.

I've been around the Land Rover scene since 1999. I well remember in the early 2000s rumours started to go around that the new Range Rover was going to get independent suspension. What? Didn't Land Rover realise that would mean the four wheel drive capacity would be compromised, because beam axles were necessary to keep all the wheels on the ground to give traction? This will be the end of Land Rover as a serious off road vehicle!

Well, it happened. In 2002 the new Rangie was released with independent suspension. A few years later the Discovery 3 did the same. But things had changed. There was a mysterious yellow button for 'Terrain Response'. And these independent suspension Land Rovers went far better off road than any of the beam axle ones.

Then there were rumours that Land Rover was about to release a model without a low range gearbox. End of the world Mk 2! It happened on the Evoque and the Disco Sport. But...the Disco Sport has a 9 speed gearbox. Which is one more gear than any of my beam axle Range Rovers had with both high and low range combined. And the Disco Sport is quite capable off road.

So, people will complain about change and progress. And not every change suits everybody. But I am glad that we are not still with the beam axles we had back in the old days of the Rangie Classics. Progress is good, and there is some real good progress in Land Rover at the moment.

[101RRS]

But the D5 is just plain dog ugly. Even the previous model - the fridge on 4 wheels looks better - and is more practical.

[veebs]

It is blatantly obvious that Land Rover is aiming at a different market to it’s traditional one.

Which is important - need to cater for the market that pays the bills. It just ****es me off that it came at the cost of the market i'm in. The city based asphalt dwellers now get a choice of pretty much every model - as far as i'm concerned they are all the same in appearance, only the size (and price) varies. Talk about reinforcing the "Chelsea Tractor" stereotype!

In the past:
Range Rover - The ultimate machine, spacious, capable
RRS - Super Capable, Luxury
RRE - City Dweller that wants the LR prestige
Discovery - Tow Tug, Super Capable, Rugged, Maximum Capacity (seats and/or cargo)
Defender - Extreme Bush Ready, no frills, traditional, mechanical

Now:
Range Rover - Big City Dweller capable of off road as long as you don't want anything beyond the stock vehicle. $$$
RRS - Medium City Dweller capable of off road
RRV - Medium City Dweller that wants retractable door handles
RRE - Small City Dweller
Discovery - Soccer Mom who needs low range, and has small sized people for the 3rd row
Disco Sport - Small City Dweller that can't justify paying for the RRE

That new Defender has an awfully wide market gap to plug - needs to cater for both the current offroad discovery crowd, as well as the defender fans. Someone will be disappointed, because it won't be mechanical AND computerised. Possibly could be air or coil sprung options, though I would think unlikely to be independent or live axle options.

I don't particularly like their cars, but I must admit Toyota seems to have a better grasp of what I think the market is in Australia: A big flagship (200 series), a smaller family-focused off roader (Prado) and a Bush machine (70 series), plus some other models designed to capture the bigger family, the soft roaders, etc.

I don't doubt I will eventually grow to like the D5, but it will never be the love at first sight I had with the D3/4.

[Alfa156Melb]

Which is important - need to cater for the market that pays the bills. It just ****es me off that it came at the cost of the market i'm in. The city based asphalt dwellers now get a choice of pretty much every model - as far as i'm concerned they are all the same in appearance, only the size (and price) varies. Talk about reinforcing the "Chelsea Tractor" stereotype!

In the past:
Range Rover - The ultimate machine, spacious, capable
RRS - Super Capable, Luxury
RRE - City Dweller that wants the LR prestige
Discovery - Tow Tug, Super Capable, Rugged, Maximum Capacity (seats and/or cargo)
Defender - Extreme Bush Ready, no frills, traditional, mechanical

Now:
Range Rover - Big City Dweller capable of off road as long as you don't want anything beyond the stock vehicle. $$$
RRS - Medium City Dweller capable of off road
RRV - Medium City Dweller that wants retractable door handles
RRE - Small City Dweller
Discovery - Soccer Mom who needs low range, and has small sized people for the 3rd row
Disco Sport - Small City Dweller that can't justify paying for the RRE

That new Defender has an awfully wide market gap to plug - needs to cater for both the current offroad discovery crowd, as well as the defender fans. Someone will be disappointed, because it won't be mechanical AND computerised. Possibly could be air or coil sprung options, though I would think unlikely to be independent or live axle options.

I don't particularly like their cars, but I must admit Toyota seems to have a better grasp of what I think the market is in Australia: A big flagship (200 series), a smaller family-focused off roader (Prado) and a Bush machine (70 series), plus some other models designed to capture the bigger family, the soft roaders, etc.

I don't doubt I will eventually grow to like the D5, but it will never be the love at first sight I had with the D3/4.

You win the internet today. The new D5 looks generic and korean. Even if it was the worlds best 4wd it looks like i30. And for that reason I'll never buy one.

I fell in love with the D3 and finally bought one recently so we can go play off road, which we've started to do.. If I wanted a car, I'd buy an Alfa.. well, I also own an Alfa so I'm bias.. but a car is a car.. and a 4wd should be just that. a 4wd. Thee new SUV's are, in my view, ridiculous cars that really aren't very good at anything. I'm so disappointed that LR has gone down that path.

[TB]

It's one thing to dislike the looks of the D5 (and I get where that's coming from, though for me the interior is uglier than the outside) but it's another to write it off as "soccer mom who needs low range".

The Discovery 5 is the most off-road-capable new LR you can buy today, provided you select the options for it. Low range, air suspension, rear diff locker plus all the computer management of torque and spin which has been proven to be a successful approach from the FL2 onwards.

I'm playing around with specs. Seems like a 5-seat SE with a few choice options might be a good starting point to replace the D4 as an Aussie explorer. The obvious question marks are spare wheels, second batteries, extra fuel, front bars and winches, underbody protection and sliders, and racks and ladders. Especially for those like me who aren't keen to tow things.

Willem – my DS does have some four wheel traction capability but man the clearance is a killer and there are some vulnerable spots underneath as I've learned the hard way. As sold it's definitely a "soft roader". Same for the Evoque if anybody would be inclined to take one off the bitumen.

[ozscott]

It's one thing to dislike the looks of the D5 (and I get where that's coming from, though for me the interior is uglier than the outside) but it's another to write it off as "soccer mom who needs low range".

The Discovery 5 is the most off-road-capable new LR you can buy today, provided you select the options for it. Low range, air suspension, rear diff locker plus all the computer management of torque and spin which has been proven to be a successful approach from the FL2 onwards.

I'm playing around with specs. Seems like a 5-seat SE with a few choice options might be a good starting point to replace the D4 as an Aussie explorer. The obvious question marks are spare wheels, second batteries, extra fuel, front bars and winches, underbody protection and sliders, and racks and ladders. Especially for those like me who aren't keen to tow things.

Willem – my DS does have some four wheel traction capability but man the clearance is a killer and there are some vulnerable spots underneath as I've learned the hard way. As sold it's definitely a "soft roader". Same for the Evoque if anybody would be inclined to take one off the bitumen.
Mate I have to say this. Nothing beats wheels on the ground. Nothing. All the traction aids in the world are not going to help if there is limited travel. I don't know how much travel the D5 will have buy if it's less than the D4 it will be compromised. Cheers

[veebs]

It's one thing to dislike the looks of the D5 (and I get where that's coming from, though for me the interior is uglier than the outside) but it's another to write it off as "soccer mom who needs low range".

The Discovery 5 is the most off-road-capable new LR you can buy today, provided you select the options for it. Low range, air suspension, rear diff locker plus all the computer management of torque and spin which has been proven to be a successful approach from the FL2 onwards.

I'm playing around with specs. Seems like a 5-seat SE with a few choice options might be a good starting point to replace the D4 as an Aussie explorer. The obvious question marks are spare wheels, second batteries, extra fuel, front bars and winches, underbody protection and sliders, and racks and ladders. Especially for those like me who aren't keen to tow things.

Yes, you're right in that the soccer mom comment is a bit harsh for what is no question a very capable vehicle, though I'm not convinced the D5 matches the D4 as a tourer. I should also point out I mean no disrespect to anyone who DOES love the D5, and is planning to (or already does) own one.
The extra few degrees of offroad angle capability, wading depth etc don't outweigh the already discussed drawbacks. Things like phone apps to change seating configuration is just silly.

The fact that you need to spec it up in order for it to compete with the most basic of it's predecessor doesn't smell right either, though I will concede that could equally be because it offers a less expensive alternative to the previous entry model.

[1nando]

Someone just said that independent suspension in the LR'S is better than any live axle 4wd. Is this is regards to on road and track use or are you simply taking the p*ss in regards to off road?
HD vehicle applications run live axels for various reasons. Not so good on road but can't be beaten of it!
Now I sit and wait for the bait to be taken 😒.....

[TB]

125969
284mm axle clearance is pretty great. The ramp angle isn't as good as the D4 though if I'm reading the old specs correctly.

I also found a claim of "19.7-inches of wheel articulation" – that's 500mm up and down. Enough for you?

[1nando]

314mm of axel clearance and 47 degree approach and departure angles are pretty good.
Let's not forget a greater payload, 150kg roof weight rating, and most importantly:

BIG TYRES.....4WD TYRES.

Please note block letters used emphasise big tyres

[TB]

314mm of axel clearance and 47 degree approach and departure angles are pretty good.
Let's not forget a greater payload, 150kg roof weight rating, and most importantly:

Which vehicle is that, out of interest?

Oh and sorry, did you say something about pliers? [bigwhistle]

[1nando]

The d4 is a great rig. I have a real soft spot for them and am considering buying one for the mrs. The idea of a d5 as a tourer or tough 4wd vehicle doesn't really appeal to me. The new d5 looks like a great family Suv but it's getting further away from its heritage in my opinion. No doubt as will the new defender.
The LR badge is moving further away from its heritage and further into the luxury car market. You can provide specs and whatever else you like but I look at every HD offroad vehicle and the d5 does not tick any of the boxes I'd like it to tick.

[1nando]

Edit; I said 314mm ground clearance when it's actually 250mm. Appologies

[oldsalt]

I've just been to Lance Dixon Doncaster to look at the NEW D5, and my next car (to replace my D3) will be a VW or a Toyota or (the list goes on)... there are so many things about the D5 that they got wrong (in my opinion).. that jelly-bean design for a start.. the way it seems to "slope" inwards at every angle might be all very good for fuel economy etc but not very good for putting stuff in when you are heading out camping... and the rear three quarter view from the drivers seat is awful - lane changing will be a lottery...yeah I know it's got side mirrors but why (oh why) did they make that rear pillar so thick and the window is the size of a soccer ball !!!! - it's a city car as far as I'm concerned and that's it... which is great pity but that's the way they designed it so good luck to them and I hope members on here who have one or are thinking of getting one have a wonderful time in it - I just won't be joining them... oh and one more thing my wife nearly fell out of the passenger seat laughing when the pimply faced 20 something salesperson started to explain to me how I could "adjust" the seating via an app on my I-phone... boy... that's something I can see me needing half way across the Simpson... ha.. ha.. ha........
Oh well - time to fit a set of Recaros in the old D3 and see if I can get a few more miles out of her...

cheers

[rick130]

I also found a claim of "19.7-inches of wheel articulation" – that's 500mm up and down. Enough for you?

19.7" ?

I call BS.

That's more than purpose built buggies.

Maybe 9.7" ?

If so, that's very good, about the same as my modified Deefer in the front, but less than what it sports in the rear.

[TB]

I've seen the 500mm figure in enough places to believe it's an official number. But I don't think it's the travel of an individual wheel. It seems more likely that in a ramp test where just one wheel has to climb, it can get to 500mm height before a second wheel starts to lift.

So if the front left wheel is going up the ramp, it and the rear right would go to full compression while the rear left and front right would go to full extension.

Sound about right?

[rick130]

I've seen the 500mm figure in enough places to believe it's an official number. But I don't think it's the travel of an individual wheel. It seems more likely that in a ramp test where just one wheel has to climb, it can get to 500mm height before a second wheel starts to lift.

So if the front left wheel is going up the ramp, it and the rear right would go to full compression while the rear left and front right would go to full extension.

Sound about right?

Ok, that makes sense.

I used a forklift once to measure the same on the Defender, IIRC it was near 800mm.

[Arapiles]

I was at a dealer today to look at D4s, so I sat in the third row of the D4 and a couple of the D5s. The third row of the D5 is definitely lower, so your knees are up in the air - it's more like sitting in the back of a Landcruiser. But you can see why they've done it, because the roof is also lower. The bonnet is enormous and really blocks vision. But the controls actually look a lot better and look identical to the Range Rovers.

Also, when I was talking to the second-hand guys about if they had any D4s coming in as trade-ins on D5s, they said there would probably be some - but they'd had D4 owners who'd ordered D5s turn up, look at the D5 in the flesh and refuse to take delivery! And then depart in their D4!

[veebs]

I was at a dealer today to look at D4s, so I sat in the third row of the D4 and a couple of the D5s. The third row of the D5 is definitely lower, so your knees are up in the air - it's more like sitting in the back of a Landcruiser. But you can see why they've done it, because the roof is also lower. The bonnet is enormous and really blocks vision. But the controls actually look a lot better and look identical to the Range Rovers.

Also, when I was talking to the second-hand guys about if they had any D4s coming in as trade-ins on D5s, they said there would probably be some - but they'd had D4 owners who'd ordered D5s turn up, look at the D5 in the flesh and refuse to take delivery! And then depart in their D4!

I've said my piece about the D5 - now I await the real world users to prove me as wrong as the initial haters of the D3. I do find it interesting that most reviews I've read lament the loss of some feature of the D4 though.

Interesting about refusing delivery. I suspect it is a very small percentage of people - I assumed you would sign a sales contract when you ordered one, making walking away pretty difficult (or expensive)?

[DI5CO]

With a new model and new release, if a dealer has presold cars, and you are buying something you haven't seen, generally you will put in a subject to, like driving or actually seeing the car etc

[Disco-tastic]

I would also assume you'd lose any deposit you paid on the car.

[DI5CO]

I would also assume you'd lose any deposit you paid on the car.

Not necessarily. I sold cars for 10years previously (not LR) and if this was in a clause it would always be honored and deposits refunded. If it was a high demand car then it could easily be resold. Not all dealers are ******! Lol

[Tins]

I would also assume you'd lose any deposit you paid on the car.

Nope. Not if you approach it with any sense. There are all sorts of conditions you, or they, can make the contract "subject to". "Subject to finance" is the most common from the purchaser's perspective. If any of the "subject to" conditions cannot be met then the contract is void, and therefore deposits are refundable. At least, that's the case in Vic.

Pays to think hard before you sign something pertaining to $100,000.

[ozscott]

Nope. Not if you approach it with any sense. There are all sorts of conditions you, or they, can make the contract "subject to". "Subject to finance" is the most common from the purchaser's perspective. If any of the "subject to" conditions cannot be met then the contract is void, and therefore deposits are refundable. At least, that's the case in Vic.

Pays to think hard before you sign something pertaining to $100,000."Subject to the vehicle not looking like an onroad toad"

[emoji16] [emoji16] [emoji16]

[Arapiles]

I've said my piece about the D5 - now I await the real world users to prove me as wrong as the initial haters of the D3. I do find it interesting that most reviews I've read lament the loss of some feature of the D4 though.


Well, as I said in another post, I suspect that with time views on the D5 may soften, and the weight loss, potential fuel economy and apparent handling improvement be seen as positives, but actually, compared to the D4, the third row really isn't as nice a place to be and for the driver the vision out of it really isn't very good, including working out where the front bumpers are ... I suspect that it will appeal to a different sort of customer and maybe be less of a family favourite.

[TB]

Well, as I said in another post, I suspect that with time views on the D5 may soften, and the weight loss, potential fuel economy and apparent handling improvement be seen as positives, but actually, compared to the D4, the third row really isn't as nice a place to be and for the driver the vision out of it really isn't very good, including working out where the front bumpers are ... I suspect that it will appeal to a different sort of customer and maybe be less of a family favourite.

I'm contemplating a 5-seater. That extra space in the back could be put to good use with carrying water or something. So any degradation in the comfort of the 3rd row seats doesn't concern me.

As for the front vision, have you seen videos of the surround camera system in action off road? There are a couple of examples in this one:
Off-Road Capability and Composure: 2017 Land Rover Discovery HSE Luxury on Everyman Driver - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DiMCS0AQCGU)

The feature is called "Drive Assist":
Land Rover Owner Information (http://www.ownerinfo.landrover.com/document/3D/2017/T31166/22468_en_GBR/proc/G1943479)

I know it's not exactly the same as having a regular-rectangular body that you can see the corners of with your own eyes, but I reckon that in a lot of circumstances those cameras would be as good as having a spotter guiding you.

[Arapiles]

I'm contemplating a 5-seater. That extra space in the back could be put to good use with carrying water or something. So any degradation in the comfort of the 3rd row seats doesn't concern me.

Agreed, the claustrophobic third row won't matter if you don't need 7 seats. But I don't think that my kids will be very happy about it ... in fact my youngest told me that she liked the Patrol (Y62) the most ... sorry ....

[scarry]

Agreed, the claustrophobic third row won't matter if you don't need 7 seats. But I don't think that my kids will be very happy about it ... in fact my youngest told me that she liked the Patrol (Y62) the most ... sorry ....

Might effect resale,many will want the rear seats,remember sometimes the whole kids soccer team needs to go places.[bigwhistle]

[TB]

Might effect resale,many will want the rear seats,remember sometimes the whole kids soccer team needs to go places.[bigwhistle]

There seems to be two distinct markets for the Discovery: those who care about the e-diff, and those who don't. One of those groups is much larger than the other.

If I end up buying a D5 it will have the capability pack including e-diff. Ideally I would hold on to that car for at least 5 years. At the end of that time it's not going to be very appealing to any soccer mum regardless of how many seats it has. But I reckon there'll be somebody from a forum like this one who'd be very interested in one of the rare examples which can lock the rear diff.

[trout1105]

I was travelling home from Perth today and saw my first D5 on the Mitchell freeway.
The first thing that struck me about the car was how small it is compared to the D2,D3 and D4's and how similar it was to all the other little city SUV's.

[GP1200]

Sure it wasn't a Discovery Sport ?
had a look at them at Southerns this week and they look much bigger in the flesh than in the pictures.

i believe they are also physically bigger in size ( length ) than the D4.

jack

[trout1105]

Sure it wasn't a Discovery Sport ?
had a look at them at Southerns this week and they look much bigger in the flesh than in the pictures.

i believe they are also physically bigger in size ( length ) than the D4.

jack

It could have been I am not certain But what I do know it didn't scream 4WD or Landrover to me it just looked like all the other little Buzz Boxes that infest the city

[scarry]

It could have been I am not certain But what I do know it didn't scream 4WD or Landrover to me it just looked like all the other little Buzz Boxes that infest the city


Sport for sure,the Disco 5 is huge,very toad looking.
There are a couple out the front of the local stealers.

Thats the trouble with the whole range,they look very similar,extremely difficult from a distance to differentiate between vehicles,yet alone models.

It doesnt do the brand any favours,average jo blow citizen will have no idea which is which.

Even us LR guys get confused.

[rick130]

Sport for sure,the Disco 5 is huge,very toad looking.
There are a couple out the front of the local stealers.

Thats the trouble with the whole range,they look very similar,extremely difficult from a distance to differentiate between vehicles,yet alone models.

It doesnt do the brand any favours,average jo blow citizen will have no idea which is which.

Even us LR guys get confused.
And they look generic to me now.

I was never really a fan of the D1, D2 styling, but you knew it was a Land Rover. It was unlike any other 4wd.
Then the D3 came along and I went wow, I like that, and it was defineably 'Land Rover'
The D4 built on that.

Then the Ewok, err, Evoque was released and I thought "that's a cool looking little car"
It was fresh and sharp at the time.
Perfect for the inner city hipster, a nice little, dare I say it, hairdressers car. (I can feel the hate mail coming from Evoque drivers as I type!)

The rest of the range has followed that styling cue, but so has the rest of the automotive world.

Could we say the range looks like style over substance now?

A big part of the Disco market in the UK and Europe is the horse towing sector.
They were always appreciated for the same reasons 4wders in Australia appreciate them.
Super practical, they had the space and capability to tow little Lucy and Beatrice's groomed, washed and plaited neddy to the dressage/jumping/eventing/hunting plus all the accoutrements that a competition horsey and stylish young lady requires.
That big, boxy back end was perfect.

Anyway, it'll be a sales success, particularly in the US, which is all JLR will really care about.

[GP1200]

apart from being offended by the way it looks, which is going to take a long time to get over,
what really is offensive is the price hike, for me to update to a equivalent HSE with a similar amount of fruit is appearing to make a new one cost a extra $20K to $35K more than my current ride. I'm now thinking of going to maybe a Range Rover, ( the prices are so close ) or even looking at other brands. [bigsad]

i can't escape that facts that both my new 2 x D4 I have owned have been the most troublesome cars I have ever owned, but at the same time have given a great driving experiences along with comfort, towing, 4WD Driving abilities.

its certainly a new model that will divide the faithful!

im really trying hard to like it, but I feel the winds of change might be blowing thru the garage
at home !

Jack

[scarry]

apart from being offended by the way it looks, which is going to take a long time to get over,
what really is offensive is the price hike, for me to update to a equivalent HSE with a similar amount of fruit is appearing to make a new one cost a extra $20K to $35K more than my current ride. I'm now thinking of going to maybe a Range Rover, ( the prices are so close ) or even looking at other brands. [bigsad]

i can't escape that facts that both my new 2 x D4 I have owned have been the most troublesome cars I have ever owned, but at the same time have given a great driving experiences along with comfort, towing, 4WD Driving abilities.

its certainly a new model that will divide the faithful!

im really trying hard to like it, but I feel the winds of change might be blowing thru the garage
at home !

Jack

It seems the extra seats are an added extra,at quite a cost,whereas with many(But not all)of the D4 models they were included,there weren't many 5 seat vehicles around.
And yes the overall prices are now in what were RRS and RR territory,way above what they (D4)were.

IMHO,the vehicle is now aimed at a new market,not the same market the D4 was aimed at.

I saw a demo one on the road yesterday,and from the rear it looks very very fugly.

[PAT303]

Saw my first Discovery 5 today,I don't know what you lot are on about,it was a storm grey color and looked bloody good.Korean/Japanese look-a-like,BS,it looked unmistakably European,I'd have one any day. Pat

[AllTerr]

Saw my first Discovery 5 today,I don't know what you lot are on about,it was a storm grey color and looked bloody good.Korean/Japanese look-a-like,BS,it looked unmistakably European,I'd have one any day. Pat
Yeah Lee brought his out to Wombat and it's pretty damn nice. The blue with white interior looks awesome. The thing is, you need to take a class to learn how to work the thing. Never seen so many controls! But it does do lots of cool stuff. I like it.

[PerthDisco]

Saw my first real one yesterday in a CocaCola colour. The backside view is a shocker.

[Arapiles]

Saw one on the road for the first time the other day .... in Toorak.[biggrin]

[ozscott]

Saw one on the road for the first time the other day .... in Toorak.[biggrin]Argh...in its natural environment.

(RRCs would be ashamed)

Cheers

[PerthDisco]

Some comedy gold in the responses here
Twitter (https://twitter.com/landrover_uk/status/899635880306110464)

[CraigE]

Saw my first Discovery 5 today,I don't know what you lot are on about,it was a storm grey color and looked bloody good.Korean/Japanese look-a-like,BS,it looked unmistakably European,I'd have one any day. Pat
Seriously Pat? I saw my first D5 last week and nearly vomited, thought it was a retarded Territory, The Discovery Sport was even worse and I just cried.[bawl][bawl]
I think I will just keep the Defender.
If I buy a new one I will likely be going down the Colorado path at less than half the price or maybe a good second hand D3/4 or RR. Should have bought yours when we were in Newman.

[weeds]

Seriously Pat? I saw my first D5 last week and nearly vomited, thought it was a retarded Territory, The Discovery Sport was even worse and I just cried.[bawl][bawl]
I think I will just keep the Defender.
If I buy a new one I will likely be going down the Colorado path at less than half the price or maybe a good second hand D3/4 or RR. Should have bought yours when we were in Newman.

99% of people vomit at the site of a defender.

[ozscott]

Haha...no...cant sell that one Weeds! They have always looked the business and always will. And I don't even have one. The D5 looks like a fat allwheel drive onroader (and if shod with 22 inch wheels really is...)

Cheers

Cheers

[1nando]

I own a heavily modified 110 which gets used for purpose. My mrs is a bit of a girls girl. Shes into everyhting that chicks like and dosent really pay attention to cars. First time she saw the new d5 after i introduced it to her she said: "i dont see how you could take that offraod".
I laughed so hard.

You see we are considering buy a d4 for her, which she loves. Looks like a "luxury" version of the defender she says. The d5 has gone so far away from its origins it is in the same category as the q7, toureg, bmw suv thing, etc in my opinion. You can claim it to be what you want but it isnt a serious off road vehicle, its a glorified "mumobile".
I can take my defender off road and everything single corner is protected by bar work, how the hell are you supposed to avoid panel damage with that thing?
I know its more expensive than my defender, makes more power, has fancy gadgets but id take a d4 over it any day of the week and id take my defender over both!

[PAT303]

You blokes all sound like Toybota drivers when some one mentions the Range Rover.My RR walked through the motor X track in Newman as if it was a freshly mowed lawn.The D5 will suit the off road needs of 99% of off roaders. Pat

[1nando]

You blokes all sound like Toybota drivers when some one mentions the Range Rover.My RR walked through the motor X track in Newman as if it was a freshly mowed lawn.The D5 will suit the off road needs of 99% of off roaders. PatPat i dont think i sound like a Toyota driver at all. In all fairness the 79 series would almost certainly meet my offroad needs, not as well as my defender for certian reasons but would do. I wouldn't take a 200 series, prado, fj or kluger off road as a overland vehicle and i wouldn't take the d5, range rover, freelander or evoque either.
Your probably right it might do for 99% of people, but in my case could i take it up to the power lines at lithgow, monkey gum or watagans and get through without vehicle damage? The answer to that question is no. I wouldnt be able to enjoy my play time as much as i do with my defender. Id be so worried about hitting a bank or rocks that the concentration alone would put me off.

[Disco-tastic]

Hands up whos driven a D5 off road?

Hmmmm not many? Me neither

The one person I actually know who has driven both off road has the opinion that the D5 is better on and offroad than the standard D4 by a noticeable margin.

Everyone has their preferences, but I do find it amusing how many people think it will be terrible off road.

[DI5CO]

I just want to know what you guys are basing 'it couldn't go off road, it's a soft roader, can't do this, can't do that bla bla bla'
Every person that has ACTUALLY driven the thing has said it's great off road and will beat a D4 and all. Why say baseless facts unless you have driven the thing??!!
Right from the outset LR have said they are moving the market for the Disco so I don't know why everyone is getting their knickers in a knot.
Wait for the Deefer.
Me, I drive a new D4, I'm still trying to get my head around the rear, but I love the front and side view and love the new interior. The D4 is completely different from the D1. I wonder how many said the same when the 4 came out. Why don't you wait to drive it 1st before giving it ****!!

[PerthDisco]

I think the global consensus irrespective of off road ability is the looks are not a winner

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/09/8.jpg

[trout1105]

In all seriousness I doubt that there will be too many of these new D5's taken into any serious 4WD'ing situations over the next 5-10 years and when they finally do they will have been modified because I can't imagine one of these doing any serious Bush or Beach work the way they leave the showroom floor.
I can just imagine how many of these will end up looking like a stranded turtles this summer when their owners take them down to the beach for the first time on their silly 22inch street wheels and tyres.
With some modifications I can't see any reason why the D5 wouldn't be as good if not better than any other Discovery But straight out of the box I doubt it.

[Disco-tastic]

In all seriousness I doubt that there will be too many of these new D5's taken into any serious 4WD'ing situations over the next 5-10 years and when they finally do they will have been modified because I can't imagine one of these doing any serious Bush or Beach work the way they leave the showroom floor.
I can just imagine how many of these will end up looking like a stranded turtles this summer when their owners take them down to the beach for the first time on their silly 22inch street wheels and tyres.
With some modifications I can't see any reason why the D5 wouldn't be as good if not better than any other Discovery But straight out of the box I doubt it.You need a better imagination [emoji14]

[scarry]

And there is this on the disco UK site,


"As a ex disco 3 owner and now a defender owner I think the new disco looks as soft as a pensioners turd"


[bigwhistle][bigsad]

[Vern]

You need a better imagination [emoji14]I agree. I have asked someone who has actually tested it offroad, and as i have said before was very impressed, and not just a drive down a dirt road, 5 weeks of offroad testing.
Out of the box i am sure it would be just as good if not better than a d4.

[CraigE]

99% of people vomit at the site of a defender.

See I disagree Weeds, I reckon 99% of people go "ooh nice land rover" or something similar. Have very few negative reactions to the look of the Defender.[thumbsupbig]
The comfort on the other hand:toilet: but no worse than troopies.

[CraigE]

You blokes all sound like Toybota drivers when some one mentions the Range Rover.My RR walked through the motor X track in Newman as if it was a freshly mowed lawn.The D5 will suit the off road needs of 99% of off roaders. Pat

Maybe so, but it looks like a Kardashians car, at least the RR looked the part. The D1/D2s looked ok from day 1, The D3/4 looked good from day 1, RR looked good until the evoque. Capability is not everything, it must also look the part.
Land Rover have forgotten what the Disco was intended for and that was mid range 4x4 and have now pretty much manufactured it out of the rare metal "Unobtanium". Is out of reach of most people now as will cost well over $100k for anything decent. The Freeloader is not an alternative and the only LR in any sort of decent price range.
My D1 when I bought it in 97 was $42k loaded with extras and on road and in a short 20 years the price of what should be the same level vehicle as risen by about 150%. Now makes an IVECO Daley look affordable.

[Zeros]

Australia has become one of the most expensive countries in the world across the board - the inevitable result of growth capitalist greed as our national mantra, a small population, and global distance. Housing, vehicles, food, are all more expensive here now than almost any other country in the world.

I can't afford a $100,000 vehicle either, but there must be a massive number of people who can.

I'd like to take a D5 for a drive...see what all the fuss is about. But in world where even dual cabs have become luxurious I fear for the future of pragmatic practical working 4WD vehicles.

Hopefully the next Defender is the answer, but I also fear there may be a whole lot more disappointed Land Rover people if it's pitched at the $100+K urban adventurer market like all other current Land Rovers.

[trout1105]

You need a better imagination [emoji14]

Imagination is one thing, Fantasy is something quite different [bigwhistle]
The beaches here in the West are very different to those in the East and I can guarantee you that those big rims and bicycle tyres are NOT up to the task here in the West [thumbsupbig]

[scarry]

Imagination is one thing, Fantasy is something quite different [bigwhistle]
The beaches here in the West are very different to those in the East and I can guarantee you that those big rims and bicycle tyres are NOT up to the task here in the West [thumbsupbig]

You don't have to look to far,that is on U tube,FB, or what ever,and see many get themselves in trouble on the beaches here as well.

And correct,it is often those soccer mums chariots with their low profile tyres, going for their once a yr adventure on the beach[biggrin]

[micksta1973]

Looks like it will be very difficult for the aftermarket guys. I can't see any way to fit a bar to the front or rear. The 4 was easy. JLR have definately lost the plot. This model is aimed squarly at the businessman/soccermum market. Wonder if any of these will make it to the cape? Just hope the new Defender will come with a decent sized (3.0 lt please) engine.

mick.

[ozscott]

The old Tele Track has parts (forget the old Gunshots) that stop D3 and D4 (2 spots I can think of. The climb out of Palm Crk and Gunshot). This technical stuff requires more than a stock d3 or d4 with 19 inch AT tyres (Maxis 980 and Duelers) - both vehicles driven by experienced LR driver's using full height, momentum, correct settings and multiple attempts. Those 2 places needed modified live axle vehicles with more clearance _ think D2 with 16's and very agressive AT's 2-3 inch lift and 75 series cruiser with 4 inch lift and muddies. So..D5 Cape unassisted on 22's...no. They have lost the plot.

Cheers
Ps perhaps muddies and rear elocking diff and both vehicles might well have made the hardest spots.

[Vern]

There is video footage of a stock rangie sport and d4's doing gunshot i think it is, does it no dramas.

[ozscott]

Vern the trouble with videos (or for that matter anecdotes of people saying they did the OTT no worries) is that the OTT changes season to season and in peak times even day to day. I am able to compare very well because my group actually comprised the vehicles I mentioned. So no assumption, no speculation, just hard facts on a straight comparison. Again, things might have been different with a elocker and muddies (but even then clearance would be an issue...). Cheers
Ps. No differences in line with my little group because the areas in question had high sides and deep ruts...
PPS there were hard sections for sure. If a guy with 33's and 4 inch lift and twin locked Deefer and plenty of experience said to me he struggled on part of the OTT then chances are in the bits he struggled in I may well have required winching (as the state of the track was THEN). I wouldn't assume I could have done it merely because i did the same spot without recovery a month before...

[Vern]

Yes, but they still did it.
I just like how everyone is **** canning a car they have never driven, or especially taken off road! ( not having a dig at you)
I would like to see someone prove everyone wrong, i would, but its out of my price range to do so[emoji6]
I remember when the d3 came out, and everyone canned that too, bloody independent suspension, it will be useless! Well it seems its not[emoji4]

[1nando]

To me a off road vehicle needs to have the abiltiy to be able to bolt protection to it to stop panel damage. Thats a proper off road vehicle!
If your argument is that its simply capable then i dont know as i haven't driven it. However for me to tackle a track i want the peace of mind that body protection offers, one less thing to worry about.
The one i had next to me looked like a whale. Where you'd bolt any protection is beyond me. The door shape would hit banks easily and the arse looks like kim kardashians....its bloody huge.
The wheel size is a joke, i dont care what crap people are going to spin but they aren't off road friendly.
I literally got back from doing some tracks today around the Turon river between sunny corner and capertee. Some of the tracks i did today that thing would not be able to do without suffering some sort of damage. My twin locked, 33 inch tyre and complete body protection defender ate it up for breakfast, couple of scratches on the rock sliders but thats it. Those scratches would have been significant damage on a d5.

You can tart and talk up a d5 all you like, roll it in glitter if you must but it isnt a serious off road vehicle. Yes i havent driven it, im happy to go the power lines track in lithgow and test it against my defender if anyone is keen? Then maybe we can put this to bed.

The d5 is aimed at a new market, one with people who have lots on money and want a green oval badge sitting on there drive way

[ozscott]

I understand what you are saying Vern but how have they improved it off road? They communicate with other D5's and have improved programming for traction control...not really. 22's...no. I'm sorry mate but they are really going the wrong way.

Ch

[DI5CO]

Looks capable to me!!
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/09/17.jpg

[ozscott]

It's the red paint that will make all the difference [emoji3]

[steane]

The new Disco will kill it off road and like all Discos before it, there will be some early adopters with the money and the desire to give it a go. Looks fine to me. The D3/4 is no super model but it has it's charms and this new one is no different. Like many new cars, some will look at it now and think it looks horrible, then two years from now they'll buy one thinking it's a bit of a looker.

Accessories will be developed in due course, like they always are.

I'd have one in a heartbeat and happily punt it off road. New Defender will probably suit me better though...I'm guessing.

[Vern]

The new Disco will kill it off road and like all Discos before it, there will be some early adopters with the money and the desire to give it a go. Looks fine to me. The D3/4 is no super model but it has it's charms and this new one is no different. Like many new cars, some will look at it now and think it looks horrible, then two years from now they'll buy one thinking it's a bit of a looker.

Accessories will be developed in due course, like they always are.

I'd have one in a heartbeat and happily punt it off road. New Defender will probably suit me better though...I'm guessing.Exactly. It seems no one wants to give it a chance! Just like every disco before it.
And as you said, the body armour will come in time, its only been out 5 minutes![emoji4]
Or we could just assume it will be a pos and cry about it. Its a disco after all, not a defender or a 70 series!

[Vern]

I understand what you are saying Vern but how have they improved it off road? They communicate with other D5's and have improved programming for traction control...not really. 22's...no. I'm sorry mate but they are really going the wrong way.

ChAhh it appears they come with 19" and 20" rims.

[chuck]

My D4 will go anywhere my sons defender will go & has and I use Ladder Track in Mt Disappoint as an example.

Less body lean & lower centre of gravity.

The one caveat is the scratches on the 20" rims although to be fair my sons defender was running bigger tyres 255 85 16's.

I am not knocking the Defender at all as I love them just saying the D4 in comparison is very very capable.

The D5 will be even better than the D4 off road & you can get a decent off road tyre on them with out changing rims.

Then you have to remember the road trip to your destination which is done by a D4 much more easily & safely than a Defender and in turn the D5 will do better again.

I do not think the new defender will be a $100,000 + vehicle it is being built to compete against the Japanese, Thai & German vehicles

Will it be more expensive than a Hilux - yes
Will it be better than a Hilux - Yes.

The New Defender will be the most capable 4x4 Landrover has produced.

I like the new D5 however I will wait for the new Defender to come out as I do not really want to pay as much for a D5 as they currently are.

My dream vehicle would be the New Defender in 130 twin cab configuration with V6 diesel, 8 speed auto, air suspension, 17" rims & stock winch, bulbar & snorkel options.

[ozscott]

Ahh it appears they come with 19" and 20" rims.It was a D5 new owner on here that is going to change from 22 to 20... glad to know they have 19 inch as a delete option.

Cheers

[Vern]

It was a D5 new owner on here that is going to change from 22 to 20... glad to know they have 19 inch as a delete option.

CheersYeah i didn't even see 22 as an option, only 19 and 20. 17 would be better[emoji4]

[ozscott]

Vern this is thread I was thinking of. Page 1. Cheers


The Peoples D5 (https://www.aulro.com/afvb/l462-discovery-5-a/251911-peoples-d5.html)

[scarry]

That 19" size is not very common,a 60 profile,not 55 like D4.

[Disco-tastic]

Why do people keep comparing it to a defender? Compare it to the D4 it replaces, sure, but its not made for the same market as the defender was made. Therefore its not going to have things people in that market like.

[DI5CO]

Why do people keep comparing it to a defender? Compare it to the D4 it replaces, sure, but its not made for the same market as the defender was made. Therefore its not going to have things people in that market like.

Thank you!!
Or an 80 series, or a 79 series, or a 15yr old Pootrol or anything old and boxy with no safety systems!!
I got rid of my D2 because it wasn't safe for my family and I wanted something a little safer. Yes I may not be able to do some of the rough stuff the 2 did (only due to scratching lol) but that was my compromise and it's a fantastic tourer and chews up k's way better that any old box car out there.

[PAT303]

The old Tele Track has parts (forget the old Gunshots) that stop D3 and D4 (2 spots I can think of. The climb out of Palm Crk and Gunshot). This technical stuff requires more than a stock d3 or d4 with 19 inch AT tyres (Maxis 980 and Duelers) - both vehicles driven by experienced LR driver's using full height, momentum, correct settings and multiple attempts. Those 2 places needed modified live axle vehicles with more clearance _ think D2 with 16's and very agressive AT's 2-3 inch lift and 75 series cruiser with 4 inch lift and muddies. So..D5 Cape unassisted on 22's...no. They have lost the plot.

Cheers
Ps perhaps muddies and rear elocking diff and both vehicles might well have made the hardest spots.

So tell me,what stock 4wd will do the Tele track?.Prado/Paj/200 series [bigwhistle][bigwhistle][bigwhistle]. Pat

[PAT303]

[QUOTE=1nando;2715088]To me a off road vehicle needs to have the abiltiy to be able to bolt protection to it to stop panel damage. Thats a proper off road vehicle!

Do a you tube search on heartbreak ridge,I did it in a stock series 3 swb,do a search on blue rag, a different stock series 3 swb and finally billy goat bluff,you guest it,a stock Tdi defender.All difficult tracks,particularly heart break ridge,not a single piece of bolt on Taliban glitter in sight [bigsmile1]. Pat

[Zeros]

Why do people keep comparing it to a defender? Compare it to the D4 it replaces, sure, but its not made for the same market as the defender was made. Therefore its not going to have things people in that market like.

Because many Disco owners keep comparing their Discos to Defenders in terms of bush ability and since the D5 is so lux oriented now, many think (wish) the next Defender will be more like a D4.

PS: Pat's right, Defenders need the least mods to do the hardest tracks, and/or long desert kms. Starting with practical things like 16" steel wheels, clearance and simplicity. Most Defender mods are unnecessary but enjoyable extras, unlike most other models which require things like suspension upgrades and replacement wheels that you can actually get non highway biased tyres for.

[scarry]

Why do people keep comparing it to a defender? Compare it to the D4 it replaces, sure, but its not made for the same market as the defender was made. Therefore its not going to have things people in that market like.

The D5 isn't really made for the same market as the D4 either....

The D5 is made for the RRS,Audie Q7,BMW X5,Volvo whatever, market,as LR have said themselves.

I don't think to many of them will see the tele track...

[DiscoMick]

I think LR is changing the D5's market to make more space for the new Defender below it.
They are aimed at different markets.
I haven't driven a D5 but I accept those who have say it is very capable.
Defender is aimed at different buyers.

[Vern]

It was a D5 new owner on here that is going to change from 22 to 20... glad to know they have 19 inch as a delete option.

CheersOzscott, i was just chatting with someone about his mates 22" rims about how much he loves them! He runs 37" tyres on them[emoji6][emoji38], but plans on going to a 40" tyre next[emoji4]. Oh its on a dodge ram[emoji6]. Happy to link a vid too

[ozscott]

So tell me,what stock 4wd will do the Tele track?.Prado/Paj/200 series [bigwhistle][bigwhistle][bigwhistle]. PatPrado and 200 easy at the right time of year and in the right track conditions - same with D2 and Defenders with TCS. Likewise D3 (air suspended models) and D4. Snorkel and good tyres of course. When the tracks are bad then clearance, tyres, live axles etc start to make (as you would expect) the difference. Unfortunately in the clearance stakes the live axle vehicles lend themselves to mods for clearance and with good setup are still very nice to drive on the highway.

Cheers
PPS. Being able to air down safely a 70-85 profile tyre massively aids grip also...

[PAT303]

Yeh OK. Pat:Rolling::Rolling: Pat

[Vern]

I think LR is changing the D5's market to make more space for the new Defender below it.
They are aimed at different markets.
I haven't driven a D5 but I accept those who have say it is very capable.
Defender is aimed at different buyers.I have heard the new defender has independent suspension, a range of different motors, and even an auto. Will wait and see

[ozscott]

Exciting times! Cheers

[scarry]

I did that Tele track twice,up and back in the D2.

Snorkle,BFG A/T,cargo barrier were the only mods.

Did get a tow up a rise one year though,by a 200 series that had just winched up it.

The deep water crossings are the main issues,thats why my D4 hasn't been there,it doesn't have a snorkel.

Pat is sorta right,my son drove the exit north from Palm ck,that many others had tried,including a group from a Patrol club,many lifted and locked.All were winched or towed.

In those days,his Puma only had a 40mm lift and a set of BFG Muddies,otherwise stock.

[Zeros]

I have heard the new defender has independent suspension, a range of different motors, and even an auto. Will wait and see

Hey Vern, where did you hear that?

[Vern]

Hey Vern, where did you hear that?Mmmmm not sure if i can say.
But don't hold me to it please, just what i was told

[DI5CO]

Just Google it, there's plenty of talk from 4x4 magazines etc. on what will be new.

[Zeros]

Yes, years of hearsay and speculation... That's why I ask where did you 'hear' it :-)

[PAT303]

It was originally going to be built on the Discovery T5 platform and released 2016-17.LR canned it and re-wrote the specs from indie to live axle.So far no more info. Pat

[ozscott]

Very wise choice for them Pat. Cheers

[CraigE]

Again not about capability alone, you actually have to like the look of your car as well. I don't want to vomit every time I walk to the driveway.
A bit like the AU Falcon while it performed OK was the ugliest Falcon ever built and looked like a pregnant Hippo.

Yes, but they still did it.
I just like how everyone is **** canning a car they have never driven, or especially taken off road! ( not having a dig at you)
I would like to see someone prove everyone wrong, i would, but its out of my price range to do so[emoji6]
I remember when the d3 came out, and everyone canned that too, bloody independent suspension, it will be useless! Well it seems its not[emoji4]

[Vern]

Again not about capability alone, you actually have to like the look of your car as well. I don't want to vomit every time I walk to the driveway.
A bit like the AU Falcon while it performed OK was the ugliest Falcon ever built and looked like a pregnant Hippo.Yes but they are **** canning its capabilities more than its looks

[Vern]

Yes, years of hearsay and speculation... That's why I ask where did you 'hear' it :-)As i said, can't say where i heard it from as i don't want to jeopardise someones career.
How about you just forget what i said[emoji4]

[Zeros]

👍😊 Cool Vern. Looking forward to your premonition coming true.

[Vern]

[emoji106][emoji4] Cool Vern. Looking forward to your premonition coming true.Yeah lets wait and see. Couldn't be worse than that 79 series anyway

[ozscott]

Yep that would be hard to achieve Vern! Cheers

[mfpoli]

There are quite a few subjective statements here, and given "beauty is in the eye of the beholder", can understand. However, I prefer to look at the specs which matter the most when determining if it is more capable:

1. D5 is circa 400kg lighter
2. D5 has less clearance (284mm vs 310mm)
3. D5 has a longer wheelbase (2923mm vs 2883mm), which would imply longer rear/front overhangs as the car is circa 130mm longer
4. D5 has a higher wading depth (900m vs 700mm)
5. D5 has Terrain Response 2 as an option (or is it standard?). But is TR2 just an automated version of TR1 or an upgrade?

So based on these facts, any weight saving is offset by lower clearance and angles (approach/ramp-over/departure). I am not convinced the increase in wading depth will matter much as you would be at a severe risk of floating if you start to approach those depths, especially if there is a current. TR2 will only matter if it is an upgrade, not just an automated version of TR1. Both can come with 19 inch rims, so this is a moot point.

So which is more capable out of the box? Tough call. On sand, I say the D5 as it is lighter. On rutted tracks, I say the D4 given its greater clearance/angles, but that's just the theory. My 4wd club (Range Rover Club of NSW) will get the keys to a D5 in a few weeks and will be comparing it against other unmodified Discoveries, including my D4. We shall find out then............... :-)

Mario

[weeds]

So tell me,what stock 4wd will do the Tele track?.Prado/Paj/200 series [bigwhistle][bigwhistle][bigwhistle]. Pat

All three I reckon.....

My mate has driven nearly all the tracks of including canning stock route, telegraph and he doesn't modify his cars apart from front bar and roof rack, he even runs OEM tyres and shocks

He has owned the following
Patrol
Prado
And now a hi-lux

Never seems to have issue in touring mode.

The biggest issue they have had traveling aus is with his mates D2 on the canning with a leaking fuel tank.

[CraigE]

1. D5 is circa 400kg lighter But at what cost?
2. D5 has less clearance (284mm vs 310mm) Negligible
3. D5 has a longer wheelbase (2923mm vs 2883mm), which would imply longer rear/front overhangs as the car is circa 130mm longer Your maths is wrong it is only 30mm on those figures not 130mm
4. D5 has a higher wading depth (900m vs 700mm) Plus
5. D5 has Terrain Response 2 as an option On option I believe not available on base??


There are quite a few subjective statements here, and given "beauty is in the eye of the beholder", can understand. However, I prefer to look at the specs which matter the most when determining if it is more capable:

1. D5 is circa 400kg lighter
2. D5 has less clearance (284mm vs 310mm)
3. D5 has a longer wheelbase (2923mm vs 2883mm), which would imply longer rear/front overhangs as the car is circa 130mm longer
4. D5 has a higher wading depth (900m vs 700mm)
5. D5 has Terrain Response 2 as an option (or is it standard?). But is TR2 just an automated version of TR1 or an upgrade?

So based on these facts, any weight saving is offset by lower clearance and angles (approach/ramp-over/departure). I am not convinced the increase in wading depth will matter much as you would be at a severe risk of floating if you start to approach those depths, especially if there is a current. TR2 will only matter if it is an upgrade, not just an automated version of TR1. Both can come with 19 inch rims, so this is a moot point.

So which is more capable out of the box? Tough call. On sand, I say the D5 as it is lighter. On rutted tracks, I say the D4 given its greater clearance/angles, but that's just the theory. My 4wd club (Range Rover Club of NSW) will get the keys to a D5 in a few weeks and will be comparing it against other unmodified Discoveries, including my D4. We shall find out then............... :-)

Mario

[mfpoli]

3. D5 has a longer wheelbase (2923mm vs 2883mm), which would imply longer rear/front overhangs as the car is circa 130mm longer Your maths is wrong it is only 30mm on those figures not 130mm



Just to clarify, the car is circa 130mm longer overall, so if the wheelbase is 40mm longer, then the front/rear overhangs would be 90mm longer by implication.

Mario

[veebs]

128958
128959

Maybe we need to line them up, like for like...

In most measures, the D5 is 'better' - deeper wading, more ground clearance, better ramp-over, better departure angles.

The D4 has a marginally better approach angle, though I'd question if you'd notice it in real-world applications. The D4 has a dramatically better turning circle - 85cm smaller!

I mentioned earlier in the thread, the D5 shouldn't be dismissed in offroad capability. Out of the box, it should be better than the model it replaces in many ways.

Does that mean I intend to trade in my trusty steed any time soon? Not on your life!

[CraigE]

OK so here are the specs
Wheelbase Length Height
D5 2923mm 4970mm 1888mm
D4 2885mm 4838mm 1841mm
D3 2890mm 4850mm 1880-1890mm
D2 2540mm 4700mm 1940mm
D1 2540mm 4540mm 1970mm

So yes overall 132mm longer


Just to clarify, the car is circa 130mm longer overall, so if the wheelbase is 40mm longer, then the front/rear overhangs would be 90mm longer by implication.

Mario

[PAT303]

All three I reckon.....

My mate has driven nearly all the tracks of including canning stock route, telegraph and he doesn't modify his cars apart from front bar and roof rack, he even runs OEM tyres and shocks

He has owned the following
Patrol
Prado
And now a hi-lux

Never seems to have issue in touring mode.

The biggest issue they have had traveling aus is with his mates D2 on the canning with a leaking fuel tank.

I don't modify my vehicles either and I've done countless outback miles,the Connie Sue a week or so ago[bigsmile1],but there is no way I would do the Tele track again without a rear locker and lift,and my warn high mount:cool:.The chicken tracks are getting just as cut up as the main track. Pat

[mfpoli]

In most measures, the D5 is 'better' - ....... more ground clearance ...........

p.62 of the D4 brochure states ground clearance of up to 310mm.

http://australiancar.reviews/_pdfs/LandRover_Discovery4_L319-III_Brochure_201406.pdf

The website now states 269mm for the D4. Either 41mm of clearance has "vanished" since the D5 became available in order to make the D5 look good, or the 310mm was overly inflated based on a different measurement to make it look good against it's predecessors. Probably a bit of both, particularly if such "official material" is published by the marketing department.

Mario

[Disco-tastic]

Because many Disco owners keep comparing their Discos to Defenders in terms of bush ability and since the D5 is so lux oriented now, many think (wish) the next Defender will be more like a D4...

That comparison has been made because, off the showroom floor, the capability of the D4 and defender off road is similiar, though they are both very different. But there is already another thread for that. [emoji14]

What I'm getting at is that people complain the D5 is not like a Defender...

[ozscott]

Maybe some are but I think a lot of D3 and D4 owners are concerned that D5 more of a compromise of good off-road ability than is desirable.

There was a comment above that the D5 reduction in clearance is neither here or there. The reduction is not only significant (at 2.6cm) but shows the direction LR went with D5. Cheers

[Disco-tastic]

Maybe some are but I think a lot of D3 and D4 owners are concerned that D5 more of a compromise of good off-road ability than is desirable.

There was a comment above that the D5 reduction in clearance is neither here or there. The reduction is not only significant (at 2.6cm) but shows the direction LR went with D5. CheersMy opinion is that out of the box it will be better, but time will tell as far as the ease at which it can be modified. The changes to chassis design (among other things) may mean that aftermarket parts suitable for outback touring are harder to come by.

As far as the height measurements go, what you measure depends on what suspension height setting you're in - unless you have dimensions for each height setting its hard to know what you're comparing.

[mfpoli]

As far as the height measurements go, what you measure depends on what suspension height setting you're in - unless you have dimensions for each height setting its hard to know what you're comparing.

The figures quoted would be the highest clearance available (ie. on its tippy-toes)

Mario

[veebs]

p.62 of the D4 brochure states ground clearance of up to 310mm.

http://australiancar.reviews/_pdfs/LandRover_Discovery4_L319-III_Brochure_201406.pdf

The website now states 269mm for the D4. Either 41mm of clearance has "vanished" since the D5 became available in order to make the D5 look good, or the 310mm was overly inflated based on a different measurement to make it look good against it's predecessors. Probably a bit of both, particularly if such "official material" is published by the marketing department.

Mario

Could the D4 brochure be referring to extended mode, and the website (and D5 brochure) only the selectable 'offroad' height? I didn't think my D4 went up 125mm between road height (185mm) and offroad height (310mm)... 269mm offroad would be 84mm above road height which sounds much closer to me? Happy to be wrong though :)

Does the D5 have the same logic as the D4, where upon becoming grounded it can/will raise beyond the user selectable offroad height?

W

[ozscott]

Where are the pressure sensors for grounding? Cheers

[mfpoli]

Could the D4 brochure be referring to extended mode, and the website (and D5 brochure) only the selectable 'offroad' height? I didn't think my D4 went up 125mm between road height (185mm) and offroad height (310mm)... 269mm offroad would be 84mm above road height which sounds much closer to me? Happy to be wrong though :)

Does the D5 have the same logic as the D4, where upon becoming grounded it can/will raise beyond the user selectable offroad height?

W

To your first point, the D4 has standard road height at 185mm. Off-road height is 50mm higher (235mm). If stuck, the air suspension automatically increases by another circa 35mm (say 270mm, which I suspect is the "269mm" that LR are referring to) at which time you can further extend another 40mm to super-extended mode (310mm). Ignoring rounding, the key message is that the D4 has up to 310mm of available clearance. The fact that LR refer to 269mm as the max for the D4 is just a convenient and misleading way of making the D5 look better. When you combine this with a longer wheelbase and overhangs, I start to question the approach/ramp-over/departure angles being largely similar between the D4 and D5. I know we are talking at the margin, but it is at the margin where the difference is whether you can clear an obstacle or need to be scull-dragged over it.

To your second point, I don't know. But I would have thought that if the D5 had the ability (automatic or user-selectable) to increase clearance beyond 284mm, then they would have adopted it as the highest setting possible.

Mario

[Disco-tastic]

Where are the pressure sensors for grounding? CheersAFAIK there are no additional pressure sensors per se, though the car knows at what height it should be. If it realised that the height it is at is higher than it should be, it cane go into extended mode (hence why dropping to access height with a bit of timber underneath the chassis will trigger it)

There are also smarts that take into account wheel spin and steering angle i believe, but i dont think there's a pressure sensor.

My assumption is the D5 uses similar logic, though i don'tknow if additional sensors are used.

[Zeros]

Fascinating discussion about relative vehicle ride heights. Brilliant that it's so adjustable for various terrains. ...Is anyone concerned about the durability of air suspension and the tech required to manage it over extended bush travel and long term reliability? Is this a factor with D4 / D5? Do they use the same airbags? I've never owned an air suspension vehicle. Is it reliable over say 300,000+ km in harsh environments?

[ozscott]

You will get heaps of people saying how good air bags are. And they are BUT they are, of course with sensors, valveblocks ,lines and compressor more likely to have a failure than coil springs and good quality shocks. Simples.

Cheers

[roverrescue]

Been a little talk of Tele track in this ramble
As mentioned it can change by the week

This year in early May I had to winch DOWN into palm creek travelling south to north!
There is no other track around at palm - one way in.

Seeing the 130 winch slide and drop in was too much for my companions in a 200 and Pajero
So I crossed palm then crossed back (winching of course)
And then we all drove around to the next bypass into the OTL

No stock wagon would have driven or winched down that entry without removing a few kilos of plastic rear bumper....
As it was the Pajero modified its bumper and the 200 it's rear flaps on the track from the Bramwell servo to palm .....

Anyways

If someone parked their D5 in that first drop I then could have driven over it and down to the creek without needing to winch 😀 Picture doesn't really show it too well but that first drop in is over a metre into soft intractable mud....

Steve

PS an hour with a mattock and shovel could have made a ramp down into the first slop . Which would have preserved rear bumpers on wagons but then would still need to winch through that to get down to the creek
A week later this was driveable

[PAT303]

Fascinating discussion about relative vehicle ride heights. Brilliant that it's so adjustable for various terrains. ...Is anyone concerned about the durability of air suspension and the tech required to manage it over extended bush travel and long term reliability? Is this a factor with D4 / D5? Do they use the same airbags? I've never owned an air suspension vehicle. Is it reliable over say 300,000+ km in harsh environments?

Are coils or leafs reliable over 300,000kms?. Pat

[PAT303]

Been a little talk of Tele track in this ramble
As mentioned it can change by the week

This year in early May I had to winch DOWN into palm creek travelling south to north!
There is no other track around at palm - one way in.

Seeing the 130 winch slide and drop in was too much for my companions in a 200 and Pajero
So I crossed palm then crossed back (winching of course)
And then we all drove around to the next bypass into the OTL

No stock wagon would have driven or winched down that entry without removing a few kilos of plastic rear bumper....
As it was the Pajero modified its bumper and the 200 it's rear flaps on the track from the Bramwell servo to palm .....

Anyways

If someone parked their D5 in that first drop I then could have driven over it and down to the creek without needing to winch 😀 Picture doesn't really show it too well but that first drop in is over a metre into soft intractable mud....

Steve

PS an hour with a mattock and shovel could have made a ramp down into the first slop . Which would have preserved rear bumpers on wagons but then would still need to winch through that to get down to the creek
A week later this was driveable

Yep,that's about how I remembered the tele track,have fun doing that in a stock 4wd running factory HT tyres. Pat

[Tombie]

AFAIK there are no additional pressure sensors per se, though the car knows at what height it should be. If it realised that the height it is at is higher than it should be, it cane go into extended mode (hence why dropping to access height with a bit of timber underneath the chassis will trigger it)

There are also smarts that take into account wheel spin and steering angle i believe, but i dont think there's a pressure sensor.

My assumption is the D5 uses similar logic, though i don'tknow if additional sensors are used.

The bag is part of the sensor [emoji6]

[Zeros]

Are coils or leafs reliable over 300,000kms?. Pat

My coils have been.

[Vern]

My coils have been.I would be guessing they are quite sagged by 300kk! Measure them

[Graeme]

Where are the pressure sensors for grounding? Cheers
Height sensor signals not changing as air is exhausted from 1 or more corners yet the sensor signals are not at their lower limit(s) indicates that the vehicle is not lowering when it should be able to go lower.

[ozscott]

Wow...is there really a debate about reliability between coils and air...really (now some like air for other reasons...all good...but one thing they (and by that I mean bag and all the kit to keep it in the air) are not is as reliable as heat treated spring steel.

[PhilipA]

Wow what a discussion.

I have to add that on many if not the majority of Range Rover Club of NSW trip , one or more air suspended cars has a problem.

The RR club has actually bought a Testbook to take on trips.

The most recent one I know about was Geehi over last Christmas, where a RRS dropped on the left. The testbook was able to show it was the front left and eventually the owner found a screw that located the air line into the air bag had departed.
On a previous trip to SA a RR L322 lost all suspension and had to drive to Adelaide to a dealer .

Now does every owner have to buy a testbook? What happens if you are out in the desert and the suspension goes down?

[Tombie]

IID will sort it.
Springs sag quickly, heat treated steel collapse or breaks.
An airbag can come loose or a sensor read bad.
All comes down to maintenance.

Air is better for the occupants, the vehicle, the tracks.

[Disco-tastic]

The bag is part of the sensor [emoji6]Then my apologies for the misinformation. [emoji29]

[scarry]

Have a look at the number of air suspension threads about faults on this site.

It is pretty obvious they are no where near as reliable as coils or leaves.

When working correctly air suspension is fantastic,but when it isn't working correctly it is often expensive and often frustrating to repair,trying to locate leaks,etc.

Coils or leaves are also much cheaper.

A corner valve failed on my D4,at approx 4 yrs old,50K.No amount of maintenance would have prevented the component from failing.Due to it leaking very slowly,it was very difficult to locate the exact fault.

[PAT303]

I've broken leafs on two of my series LR's,broken the shackle bolts/shackles on three of my Toyota's,replaced the entire suspension on every Toyota I've owned,never touched the EAS on my L322. When I rebuild my Tdi I'm fitting air suspension. Pat

[PAT303]

Have a look at the number of air suspension threads about faults on this site.

It is pretty obvious they are no where near as reliable as coils or leaves.

When working correctly air suspension is fantastic,but when it isn't working correctly it is often expensive and often frustrating to repair,trying to locate leaks,etc.

Coils or leaves are also much cheaper.

A corner valve failed on my D4,at approx 4 yrs old,50K.No amount of maintenance would have prevented the component from failing.Due to it leaking very slowly,it was very difficult to locate the exact fault.

It depends on what you class as reliable or cheap.Every Asian 4wd requires a suspension change to do what they are designed to do,is that reliable or cheap?.Every leaf/coil vehicle requires compromise,fit stiff springs to carry wieght which then gives poor ride and nervous handling when empty,soft springs give a nice ride but can't carry wieght,they don't last and give sloppy handling so you then have to fit airbags blah blah etc etc.I'd like to know how many faults EAS vehicles have that are actual faults apposed to faults caused by owners not knowing how to operate their vehicle. Pat

[Roverlord off road spares]

Did they borrow the rear design from Ssanyong Musso?

[ozscott]

Pat you make some good points but in truth a well set up cooler with simple internal Coilrite or similar helpers are really the reliability ants pants and are not remotely nervous handling wise. Air suspension is great but it's not as reliable NOR as cheap to run over the long run as coils.

I really felt for my mate with his d3 with low ks...way up on the OTT and it keeps throwing suspension faults and dropping down...the truth is coils are most unlikely to give trouble that stops you or causes so much grief and heartache. Cheers

[ozscott]

Did they borrow the rear design from Ssanyong Musso?Yes. [emoji16][emoji106]

[scarry]

It depends on what you class as reliable or cheap.Every Asian 4wd requires a suspension change to do what they are designed to do,is that reliable or cheap?.Every leaf/coil vehicle requires compromise,fit stiff springs to carry wieght which then gives poor ride and nervous handling when empty,soft springs give a nice ride but can't carry wieght,they don't last and give sloppy handling so you then have to fit airbags blah blah etc etc.I'd like to know how many faults EAS vehicles have that are actual faults apposed to faults caused by owners not knowing how to operate their vehicle. Pat

i was talking about OEM airbags,not added on aftermarket systems.

You don't have to look far,do a search on here.There are heaps of them.

I doubt there are any D3s around that are on their original air compresser,for a start.

Asian vehicles upgrades?,i thought this was about mainly LR products.

As an example would rather replace a set of shocks and coils on a D2,the job is done,easy fix,not a massive cost,i did it to mine.

With EAS,it is extremely complicated with many parts that can fail.Not good for remote area travel as quite a few have found out on here.

In fact there are probably more EAS issues with the D3/4 range,as an example, than any other issue with these vehicles.

[scarry]

Pat you make some good points but in truth a well set up cooler with simple internal Coilrite or similar helpers are really the reliability ants pants and are not remotely nervous handling wise. Air suspension is great but it's not as reliable NOR as cheap to run over the long run as coils.

I really felt for my mate with his d3 with low ks...way up on the OTT and it keeps throwing suspension faults and dropping down...the truth is coils are most unlikely to give trouble that stops you or causes so much grief and heartache. Cheers

Exactly,i have had both.In fact my last D2 i went for a 5 seater without EAS for reliability.

The only real issue i have had with my D4,so far, has been the EAS.
And it was a PITA to diagnose the issue exactly,without replacing expensive components,and hoping they would fix it.

There is also a recent thread on here by Graeme who is an EAS guru,having a bit of grief with the EAS on his late model RR.He has a similar issue to what i had,extremely difficult to determine the fault for sure.A frustrating PITA.

As i have said,when it all works correctly,they are fantastic.

Just my 2cants worth,what about we get back to the OP topic[smilebigeye]

now that D5...we won't go there......[tonguewink]

[Zeros]

Does anyone think the new Defender will have air suspension?

[PAT303]

Pat you make some good points but in truth a well set up cooler with simple internal Coilrite or similar helpers are really the reliability ants pants and are not remotely nervous handling wise. Air suspension is great but it's not as reliable NOR as cheap to run over the long run as coils.

I really felt for my mate with his d3 with low ks...way up on the OTT and it keeps throwing suspension faults and dropping down...the truth is coils are most unlikely to give trouble that stops you or causes so much grief and heartache. Cheers

A mate of mine broke an ARB coil on the rear of his D1 on the canning,he didn't have a pleasant trip either.In truth be prepared, these things happen. Pat

[ozscott]

Mate that's such a rare thing (ie rockinghorse poo) compared to air suspension faults. Are you keeping a straight face when you are typing in this thread[emoji16]

If my Dobinsons break I will let you know...

Bugger in the meantime I had better go check my stock original 300k klm springs on my D1!

Cheers

[PAT303]

Does anyone think the new Defender will have air suspension?

Hope it has both to be honest.A basic farm model with manual and coils plus a duded up touring model with auto and EAS.

[ozscott]

It would be great if for a base model they had coils (for practicality they really must) but that would also require live axle to be useful. Probably too much of a wish list... Cheers

[1nando]

The OP's concern was that the new d5 doesn't look as capable offroad as its predecessor.

Its imposible for everyone to agree on a vehciles capabilities because we all expect different things and do different things with our vehicles. The term "offroad" is a bit of a loose term cause anything that isnt tarmac will be "offroad" to some and for others lifting wheels off the ground and scratching rock sliders is "offroad".
My personal opinion will be different to the next blokes for various reasons. I would never drive a d5 in the same situations ive put my defender in or through.
Would i feel comforable with the possiblity of damaging panels, rims, fuel tank etc....? No i wouldnt. Would i drive it through a tight track with high banks that could hit the panels....? No
Would i drive it up and through large rock steps....? No
Thats the offroad i do. Would it be a good tourer..? Maybe, but id pick a few cars in front of it.

Whether you want to admit it or not LR has decided to move into producing luxury cars, they've built a niche that people want to be a part off. LR can claim the d5 to be the greatest offroad vehicle of all time cause they want people to buy a luxury vehicle that promises to deliver adventure which only a small percentage of owners will ever do but hardy anyone will ever push the limit of. The people that LR market the d5 too are not the people that are going to drive them up to cape york, through the simo or any other difficult trip/track. They'll drive them to the hunter valley on a dirt road, maybe the barossa Valley for a wine tasting or maybe the beach. Thats my opinion and no one can say its wrong cause its my bloody opinion of "offroad". D5 is not my idea of "offroad"

[AndyG]

My daughter is in the market, and almost bought a disco 5, however due to hubby pressure a BMW x3 40i is now top of the list. This is type of customer LR is chasing,
P.S am looking forward to borrowing the x3[emoji12]

[Zeros]

Strangely though, the most significant aspect of D5 off road capability - Terrain response 2 -is not available on the base model coil sprung Disco 5! I don't get it. ...when it's the base model that is most likely to be a vehicle used in the bush.

[DI5CO]

There's always this if you like! Just to keep this thread going [emoji23]
Check out this article.
We've taken a wrong turn (https://www.carsales.com.au/editorial/news/2017/4x4-Offroad/Land-Rover/Discovery/frankfurt-motor-show-startechtweaked-land-rover-discovery-108794)

[ozscott]

Good for soccer players but but ugly.

Cheers

[rar110]

I hope the new Defender has EAS. The EAS on my 10 year old L322 with 265,000km has never let me down. I did replace the front air springs 9 mths ago as they were looking a bit sad and was going on a trip. It turned out that one shocks was dead.

I have the itemised service history of the previous owner. He replaced the compressor and rear shocks.

The ride on and off road is amazing. I can drop down in car parks or get an instant 2" lift for some rough stuff.

I'm sold on EAS. I reckon air springs are as reliable as a tyre that never touches the road.

[rammypluge]

Strangely though, the most significant aspect of D5 off road capability - Terrain response 2 -is not available on the base model coil sprung Disco 5! I don't get it. ...when it's the base model that is most likely to be a vehicle used in the bush.Why would you want terrain response if you are going off road? For serious offroading you just need locking diffs. Even hill descent control is a poor concept that is not desirable for offroading. You want a car that responds to inputs in a predictable manner, so you, the driver, is in control.

[Zeros]

Why would you want terrain response if you are going off road? For serious offroading you just need locking diffs. Even hill descent control is a poor concept that is not desirable for offroading. You want a car that responds to inputs in a predictable manner, so you, the driver, is in control.

I don't, which is why I drive a Defender. But without the technology it's not really a Disco 5. So like the OP, wait for the Defender. But then it will probably have terrain response 2, wheels you can't get off road tyres for, and airbag suspension. So might as well buy a D5!

[SBD4]

Strangely though, the most significant aspect of D5 off road capability - Terrain response 2 -is not available on the base model coil sprung Disco 5! I don't get it. ...when it's the base model that is most likely to be a vehicle used in the bush.
That's because terrain response requires air suspension, it is an integral part of the system. This comment epitomises the lack of understanding of these vehicles by those that haven't owned or driven them (understandably).

As to discussion about the reliability of the air suspension being the end of the world - forget it. Yes, things can happen but there are plenty of options out there that can mitigate almost all risk associated with its failure. Same approach is taken with handling that risk as there is for a known risk on any other kind of vehicle. Just different spares, tools and troubleshooting skills that's all.

The capability of the D5's TR system will leave the D4 behind. The main shortfall of the D5 will be maneuverability, anyone going from a D3/4 to a D5 will find themselves doing 3 point turns where they never had to before. The D5 has the same turning circle as the L494 which is what I now have, I can't tell you how many times during the 1st few months of ownership I was fruitlessly wrenching on that steering wheel trying to get that extra half a turn so I could make the maneuver I used to do with ease in the D4.

And Mario, rest assured that anything the D4s suspension will do, the D5s will do plus more including extended modes. D5s wheel travel is more than the D4s too.

Personally, if I were to buy another new Land Rover it would be the next Defender especially if it was like the D4 with the ruggedness of the last Defender and plenty of room in the arches for bigger tyres.

[weeds]

I don't, which is why I drive a Defender. But without the technology it's not really a Disco 5. So like the OP, wait for the Defender. But then it will probably have terrain response 2, wheels you can't get off road tyres for, and airbag suspension. So might as well buy a D5!

The new defender has to have an option for EAS....I'm loving the air bags in the rear on mine, if I had the spare coin I would replace the front springs to air as well

[Zeros]

Thanks for the insight SBD4 and Weeds. Obviously my previous post was a bit tongue in cheek. ...I really like the sound of air suspension in some ways and the fact that T2 requires it makes sense. Hopefully on the next Defender it will be super durable. Cheers

[rar110]

I understand TR also helps keep on check excessive load on trans and drive shafts. Not that it's impossible to break something as someone recently demonstrated.

[rammypluge]

Trucks have airbags and they never have electronic issues.

Manufacturers should just make driveshafts strong enough to handle lockers. Indeed some do already.

I have experience with steering angle sensor controlled tc/esp/abs, etc etc, and i would rather not have any of it.

For example, i was driving in lots of really slipperly mud a few months ago. In many circumstances, when i braked at very low speeds, the abs would cut in very quickly, suggesting that that particular ground was very slick, and yet if i stomped on the brake pedal the car would stop almost dead. The abs was making it difficult for me to accurately assess the level of grip. I have achieved the same results of traversing slippery ground in the past with much less confusion.

[loanrangie]

My daughter is in the market, and almost bought a disco 5, however due to hubby pressure a BMW x3 40i is now top of the list. This is type of customer LR is chasing,
P.S am looking forward to borrowing the x3[emoji12]
The Chinese built x3 is not even in the same league, shopping trolley at best.

[TB]

That's because terrain response requires air suspension, it is an integral part of the system. This comment epitomises the lack of understanding of these vehicles by those that haven't owned or driven them (understandably).

Um... my Discovery Sport and the Freelanders which preceded it have Terrain Response but all run on coil springs.

[SBD4]

Um... my Discovery Sport and the Freelanders which preceded it have Terrain Response but all run on coil springs.
yes, indeed it does, as does my wifes Evoque. "Terrain Response" is not "Terrain Response 2" and, Terrain Response in Disco Sport/Evoque is still quite a number of notches down in capability to even that installed in the now superseded D4. To clarify, the D5 S will have Terrain Response, it will be the same as that installed in the Disco Sport and Evoque which is minus "Rock Crawl" mode and low range. Terrain Response models with Air Suspension and low range includes Rock Crawl, Terrain Response 2 adds the capability of auto-selecting the correct mode required by sensing the current terrain conditions.

Hope that clears it up for you.

[Grentarc]

There is only 2 differences between base TR and TR2 - TR2 on the D5 has Auto and ATPC - all the rest are STANDARD

[rammypluge]

The D5 wont have low range? If so how low is the gearing in first and reverse?

[Grentarc]

The D5 wont have low range? If so how low is the gearing in first and reverse?Only the TD4 cant have it - the SD4 can have it though.

[scarry]

[QUOTE=Grentarc;2717696]Only the TD4 cant have it - the SD4 can have it though.[/QUOTE

[scarry]

[QUOTE=Grentarc;2717696]Only the TD4 cant have it - the SD4 can have it though.[/QUOTE


The D5 wont have low range? If so how low is the gearing in first and reverse?

Not low enough if you need low range.............

[Grentarc]

[QUOTE=scarry;2717725]



Not low enough if you need low range.............Then don't buy the bottom of the range engine, and order a 2 speed transfer case.

[Graeme]

There is also a recent thread on here by Graeme ......having a bit of grief with the EAS on his late model RR.He has a similar issue to what i had,extremely difficult to determine the fault for sure.I should have dunked the suspected leaking valve block into a tub of water.

[Zeros]

What's the point of a base model 4x4, the one most likely to be used in the bush, without low range?

[Grentarc]

What's the point of a base model 4x4, the one most likely to be used in the bush, without low range?The base model is aimed at the people who don't use it in the bush - it's is more aimed at the school run crowd

[Zeros]

I would have thought the opposite. School run crowd lux model. Why would you buy a lux model to go bush?

[Grentarc]

I would have thought the opposite. School run crowd lux model. Why would you buy a lux model to go bush?Plenty of HSE D4s go bush
The base S model seems to be aimed at those who want a larger 7 seater that isn't a minivan and is affordable for those who don't need low range.

[Zeros]

When did the world flip? ...I guess it's all about luxury touring out of the cities now, rather than base model vehicles being designed for bush practicality. ...So a base model D5 is now actually just a station wagon / people mover?

[Grentarc]

When did the world flip? ...I guess it's all about luxury touring out of the cities now, rather than base model vehicles being designed for bush practicality. ...So a base model D5 is now actually just a station wagon / people mover?Pretty much!
It has less towing capacity and less off road ability.

[scarry]

I should have dunked the suspected leaking valve block into a tub of water.

When my system was leaking i thought of putting a trace of refrigerant into the air intake,put the vehicle in off road height and then go around with an electronic leak detecter.

A dye that didn't affect the system may also be helpful,as used in refrigeration.Put into the system at manufacturing time would be good.

[rammypluge]

When did the world flip? ...I guess it's all about luxury touring out of the cities now, rather than base model vehicles being designed for bush practicality. ...So a base model D5 is now actually just a station wagon / people mover?I think we just have to face that offroad drivers are not the market. It is marketed as an offroader, to a vast majority of non offroaders.

If the vehicle was genuinely aimed at offroaders, it would have rubber floor mats (no carpet), built in sill protection, AT high profile tyres, high engine air intake, front and rear heavy duty bars (alloy or steel, not plastic), front centre and rear driver controlled diff locks, etc.

[scarry]

The base model is aimed at the people who don't use it in the bush - it's is more aimed at the school run crowd

i would think most buyers would be as you have said,whatever model they choose.
Limited accessories won't help either.

How many RRS,Audie Q7,BMW X5,etc do you see doing remote touring,or for that matter,out of the city?

[PAT303]

I think we just have to face that offroad drivers are not the market. It is marketed as an offroader, to a vast majority of non offroaders.

If the vehicle was genuinely aimed at offroaders, it would have rubber floor mats (no carpet), built in sill protection, AT high profile tyres, high engine air intake, front and rear heavy duty bars (alloy or steel, not plastic), front centre and rear driver controlled diff locks, etc.

There must be one of the many Land Rover owners who have never been offroad,because none of my vehicles have ever been fitted with sill protection,heavy duty front and rear bars,front and rear diff locks or any of the other macho bush tucker man wannabee crap. Pat

[PAT303]

i would think most buyers would be as you have said,whatever model they choose.
Limited accessories won't help either.

How many RRS,Audie Q7,BMW X5,etc do you see doing remote touring,or for that matter,out of the city?

About three years ago I did the great central deserts with my eldest sister Joanne,I was surprised how many D3-4 and RRS RR's were there,many cruising at 100 towing respectable sized caravans. Unfortunately once we got back to the coast it was 200 series Land Loosers wobbling along at 80 with a block of flats hanging off their arse. Pat

[PAT303]

When my system was leaking i thought of putting a trace of refrigerant into the air intake,put the vehicle in off road height and then go around with an electronic leak detecter.

A dye that didn't affect the system may also be helpful,as used in refrigeration.Put into the system at manufacturing time would be good.

And I can look back as a boy trying to get cars started by stuffing about with points,condensers,every time it rained they'd get moisture in the dizzy,putting leads against the block looking for spark.Today is no different than yesterday,that's why god created mechanic's. Pat

[Zeros]

How many RRS,Audie Q7,BMW X5,etc do you see doing remote touring,or for that matter,out of the city?

Exactly. So has Discovery joined Range Rover as a luxury urban 'I might go off road one day but I really just want the image of being adventurous' type of vehicle? Leaving Land Rover with no real off road vehicles? Boy the next Defender is important in maintaining that green oval image that the rest of the stable rely on! Amazing.

[Grentarc]

Exactly. So has Discovery joined Range Rover as a luxury urban 'I might go off road one day but I really just want the image of being adventurous' type of vehicle? Leaving Land Rover with no real off road vehicles? Boy the next Defender is important in maintaining that green oval image that the rest of the stable rely on! Amazing.The D5 with 2 speed transfer and EAS is way more capable than a D4, so no, they are just offering cheaper spec levels for those that won't use the extra features.

[Zeros]

There must be one of the many Land Rover owners who have never been offroad,because none of my vehicles have ever been fitted with sill protection,heavy duty front and rear bars,front and rear diff locks or any of the other macho bush tucker man wannabee crap. Pat

Agreed Pat. I've never needed any of that aftermarket stuff on my Defender other than a bull bar (which has saved me on many occasions from roo strike). ...although I reckon the bush tucker man's set up was pretty basic too!

...so if even the base model D5 doesn't have low range, aren't the wanabee's now the core of Land Rover's market?

[Grentarc]

Agreed Pat. I've never needed any of that aftermarket stuff on my Defender other than a bull bar (which has saved me on many occasions from roo strike). ...although I reckon the bush tucker man's set up was pretty basic too! ...but if even the base model D5 doesn't have low range, aren't the wanabee's now the core of Land Rover's market?Well that's why all the hipsters own Defenders [emoji23]

[Zeros]

The D5 with 2 speed transfer and EAS is way more capable than a D4, so no, they are just offering cheaper spec levels for those that won't use the extra features.

Yeah but the models with dual range also have carpets and leather seats, etc. ..So if you want a D5 for bush travel you have to pay an extra $20K for extra features you won't use or don't want / need...

[Grentarc]

Yeah but the models with dual range also have carpets and leather seats, etc. ..So if you want a D5 for bush travel you have to pay an extra $20K for extra features you won't use or don't want / need...I would rather leather seats and carpet with removable rubber mats - much easier to clean than cloth seats! My D4 gets a hammering internally from my 3yr old, yet it takes only minutes to clean it all off the leather and hose down the mats.
What other features don't you want or need ? You can buy a pretty basic model and only spec the things you want.

[Zeros]

I'd simply rather a base model with dual range and spend the $20K on my mortgage or actually going on many trips.

[Grentarc]

I'd simply rather a base model with dual range and spend the $20K on my mortgage or actually going on many trips.To option a SD4 Discovery S with EAS, 2 speed transfer case and E-diff costs about $4000 - where's the $20k coming from?
The S TD4 is $65k starting, the SD4 is $70k - so only $9k total over the most basic.

[Grentarc]

To option a SD4 Discovery S with EAS, 2 speed transfer case and E-diff costs about $4500 - where's the $20k coming from?Also, the SD4 S has almost 1000kg payload, so there's your optimal tourer. 177kw 500nm too

[Ean Austral]

I know the D3 came out in the basic S model , but did the D4 ? I haven't seen a D4 with cloth trim and coils . I think L/R may have started the trend towards the leather and carpet well before the D5 .
I haven't checked if the D4 did come as a base model so happy to be corrected.

i would be keen to see of all the 4wd sold in all brands , how many actually go remote because my guess is it would be a single figure % . I see most 4wds as being the grey nomad tow tug so can fully understand the trend towards the more luxurious side.

i could just imagine what would be said if L/R went back to building the D1 type disco and the 300tdi style defender as that's how a lot of the opinions in this thread seem that people want them to do.
Just how it reads to me .

cheers Ean

[Grentarc]

I know the D3 came out in the basic S model , but did the D4 ? I haven't seen a D4 with cloth trim and coils . I think L/R may have started the trend towards the leather and carpet well before the D5 .
I haven't checked if the D4 did come as a base model so happy to be corrected.

i would be keen to see of all the 4wd sold in all brands , how many actually go remote because my guess is it would be a single figure % . I see most 4wds as being the grey nomad tow tug so can fully understand the trend towards the more luxurious side.

i could just imagine what would be said if L/R went back to building the D1 type disco and the 300tdi style defender as that's how a lot of the opinions in this thread seem that people want them to do.
Just how it reads to me .

cheers EanWe never saw coils here in the D4, may have been coiled "commercials" in the UK, but not here.

[ramblingboy42]

Mmmmm not sure if i can say.
But don't hold me to it please, just what i was told

Of course you can't say.

Land Rover have not released ANY information on the new defender.

[Vern]

Of course you can't say.

Land Rover have not released ANY information on the new defender.Not to the public they haven't.

[rammypluge]

There must be one of the many Land Rover owners who have never been offroad,because none of my vehicles have ever been fitted with sill protection,heavy duty front and rear bars,front and rear diff locks or any of the other macho bush tucker man wannabee crap. PatThis thread is about the D5? And you drive a Defender? The defender has a steel bumper as standard, enough sill clearance to not have to worry whereas the D5 doesnt, where our 2 door rangie flexed so well it didnt need difflocks our 110 county with no load lifted wheels easily and progress stopped, our 2 door rangie and 110 county had the air intake right at the top back of the engine and we had the rangie floating up on the springs once without a problem but hot air intakes arent the rage these days, and i dont think your defender came with carpets in the footwell either.

[rammypluge]

Exactly. So has Discovery joined Range Rover as a luxury urban 'I might go off road one day but I really just want the image of being adventurous' type of vehicle? Leaving Land Rover with no real off road vehicles? Boy the next Defender is important in maintaining that green oval image that the rest of the stable rely on! Amazing.Yep. They seem to have been following Jeeps lead, but if the next defender isnt a proper offroader, then Jeep is kinda ahead with their JK.

[rammypluge]

The D5 with 2 speed transfer and EAS is way more capable than a D4, so no, they are just offering cheaper spec levels for those that won't use the extra features.How do you justify that statement?

[rammypluge]

I would rather leather seats and carpet with removable rubber mats - much easier to clean than cloth seats! My D4 gets a hammering internally from my 3yr old, yet it takes only minutes to clean it all off the leather and hose down the mats.
What other features don't you want or need ? You can buy a pretty basic model and only spec the things you want.Leather seats dont last, get rips, and what if you get them wet.

[Grentarc]

How do you justify that statement?Better approach, break over and departure angles, better ground clearance, can take larger tyres and has better TR as standard

[Grentarc]

Leather seats dont last, get rips, and what if you get them wet.Cloth seats stain, rip and if they get wet, The water soaks into the sponge... leather is water repellant, and I have never had a car where the leather has lasted a shorted time than cloth
In fact I have had more cloth seats wear through from just sitting on them than any leather seats having ANY damage.

[rammypluge]

Whenever i get in an old car with leather its stuffed whereas whenever i get in an old car with cloth its going okay. Wandered through a fair few wreckers too. Oh well, each has their experiences.

I have been told by people in the trade that leather doesnt last. I have also been told by people in the trade that if your cloth seats are dirty, take them out and spray them with a hose. Let dry and put back in.

I reckon a stanley knife would go straight through most leather whereas cloth could take a few goes.

[rammypluge]

Better approach, break over and departure angles, better ground clearance, can take larger tyres and has better TR as standardI saw a discussion saying that they were comparing a D4 at std height vs a D5 at raised height, affecting your first four factors.

What size tyres can the D5 fit?

[Grentarc]

I saw a discussion saying that they were comparing a D4 at std height vs a D5 at raised height, affecting your first four factors.

What size tyres can the D5 fit?The D5 angles are all at Off Road height, which is a fair bit higher than the D4, the D5 also has 500mm of axle articulation, which is up from the D4s 300ish front and 400ish rear (will find the exact measurements if you like), and LR state their off road height angles, which is what I am talking about.
The D5s Off Road height gives better clearance than the D4, even with the D5 having a lower on road height. And Also, don't forget the 200mm increased wading depth on the D5.

As for tyres, the D5 comes with 31" standard, has no chassis to get in the way of larger tyres like the D4, and after having a look at the room in the wheel well, 33" should fit, as long as they aren't too wide - I have a mate that is going to confirm whether 285/55R20 fit (32.4") as that's the largest he wants to go, as he doesn't want to run permanent lift to cater for larger rubber

[rammypluge]

The D5 angles are all at Off Road height, which is a fair bit higher than the D4, the D5 also has 500mm of axle articulation, which is up from the D4s 300ish front and 400ish rear (will find the exact measurements if you like), and LR state their off road height angles, which is what I am talking about.
The D5s Off Road height gives better clearance than the D4, even with the D5 having a lower on road height. And Also, don't forget the 300mm increased wading depth on the D5.

As for tyres, the D5 comes with 31" standard, has no chassis to get in the way of larger tyres like the D4, and after having a look at the room in the wheel well, 33" should fit, as long as they aren't too wide - I have a mate that is going to confirm whether 285/55R20 fit (32.4") as that's the largest he wants to go, as he doesn't want to run permanent lift to cater for larger rubberInfo i have gleaned on suspension travel over time:
RR Classic front 10" rear 12" . . . excluding articulation which takes it up at least 2" front and rear
L322 front 12" rear 14"
Disco 3/4 front 9" rear 13"
Current RRFF front 10" rear 10"

If the D5 has 500mm (20"), that would be the total, for front and back, being the same architecture as the RRFF. 500mm is not exciting. Not terrible, but not competitive with many prior LR's. So 2" less than its predecessor the D3/4.

Are you comparing the off road height of the D5 to the off road height of the D3/4? Too much height has the disadvantage of limited droop travel, how much of that is there in each case?

Earlier today i saw a pic of a D4 with 275 70 18. I dont know about its suspension height or scrubbing.

[scarry]

There must be one of the many Land Rover owners who have never been offroad,because none of my vehicles have ever been fitted with sill protection,heavy duty front and rear bars,front and rear diff locks or any of the other macho bush tucker man wannabee crap. Pat

My last 4 Discos as well,cargo barrier,bull bar,dual battery,good set of LT tyres,been all over the country side,never had an issue.

[scarry]

Whenever i get in an old car with leather its stuffed whereas whenever i get in an old car with cloth its going okay. Wandered through a fair few wreckers too. Oh well, each has their experiences.

I have been told by people in the trade that leather doesnt last. I have also been told by people in the trade that if your cloth seats are dirty, take them out and spray them with a hose. Let dry and put back in.

I reckon a stanley knife would go straight through most leather whereas cloth could take a few goes.

Leather needs to be looked after,with leather conditioner and cleaner regularly.

Most leather seats in vehicles don't get looked after.

[Zeros]

To option a SD4 Discovery S with EAS, 2 speed transfer case and E-diff costs about $4000 - where's the $20k coming from?
The S TD4 is $65k starting, the SD4 is $70k - so only $9k total over the most basic.

+$20K is for SE. Yeah Ok, If you can get low range and e diff for $4000 on an S, that's not too bad. + Replace wheels + tyres $3,500K+ rubber mats $500? $73,000 ish. Hmm ...still = wait for Defender if you wanted a new bush tourer I reckon.

[Grentarc]

Info i have gleaned on suspension travel over time:
RR Classic front 10" rear 12" . . . excluding articulation which takes it up at least 2" front and rear
L322 front 12" rear 14"
Disco 3/4 front 9" rear 13"
Current RRFF front 10" rear 10"

If the D5 has 500mm (20"), that would be the total, for front and back, being the same architecture as the RRFF. 500mm is not exciting. Not terrible, but not competitive with many prior LR's. So 2" less than its predecessor the D3/4.

Are you comparing the off road height of the D5 to the off road height of the D3/4? Too much height has the disadvantage of limited droop travel, how much of that is there in each case?

Earlier today i saw a pic of a D4 with 275 70 18. I dont know about its suspension height or scrubbing.The D4 9" = 230mm 13" = 330mm - so the D5's 500mm front AND rear (Same as L405 actually.. each, not total) is much more than that.
The off road ground clearance of the D4 (not in extended mode) is about 240mm - D5 is 283mm.
Plenty of down travel available at that height on the D5s suspension

I have seen a D3 with 35" tyres too, but can't run at standard height, or without spacers, and if you get a fault and drops to bump stops, you aren't going anywhere... Also, the D5 has an option to NOT drop when it detects a fault.

[rammypluge]

My last 4 Discos as well,cargo barrier,bull bar,dual battery,good set of LT tyres,been all over the country side,never had an issue.Thats what i said, heavy duty front bar, tyres suitable for offroading. If you dont seek the more serious offroading or turn around when it gets tough, you dont need sill protection, a rear bar, diff locks, or a higher air intake in a Disco. Once people get diff locks they dont want to ever go back, its always the people that havent had them that argue against them.

[Grentarc]

Current RRFF front 10" rear 10"



I think you have the L494 RRS and the L405 FFRR confused here

[rammypluge]

The D4 9" = 230mm 13" = 330mm - so the D5's 500mm front AND rear (Same as L405 actually.. each, not total) is much more than that.
The off road ground clearance of the D4 (not in extended mode) is about 240mm - D5 is 283mm.
Plenty of down travel available at that height on the D5s suspension

I have seen a D3 with 35" tyres too, but can't run at standard height, or without spacers, and if you get a fault and drops to bump stops, you aren't going anywhere... Also, the D5 has an option to NOT drop when it detects a fault.I really, really think you are wrong about the 500mm being for each end. What can you quote?
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/09/303.jpghttps://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/09/304.jpg

[rammypluge]

I think you have the L494 RRS and the L405 FFRR confused hereInfo i have read says both same. Can you quote otherwise?

[rammypluge]

Until proven otherwise, the replacement for the defender and the base model disco has already arrived, in the form of the Amarok.https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/09/305.jpg

[WhiteD3]

Until proven otherwise, the replacement for the defender and the base model disco has already arrived, in the form of the Amarok.

x 2

...and with the V6 range being expanded to 5 models from poverty pack to high(er) performance.

Volkswagen Amarok Aventura Exclusive: 190kW ute concept revealed for Frankfurt (http://www.caradvice.com.au/581767/volkswagen-amarok-aventura-exclusive-190kw-ute-concept-revealed-for-frankfurt/)


One of these will replace my D4 in the coming months unless the 2018 Touareg is affordable.

[Grentarc]

I really, really think you are wrong about the 500mm being for each end. What can you quote?


LR Press pack on the D5 - "wheel articulation of 19.7 inches"
FFRR is actually has 23.5" - 597mm according to SAE International On road or off, Range Rover suspension up to the task (video) - SAE International (http://articles.sae.org/12337/)

[ozscott]

There must be one of the many Land Rover owners who have never been offroad,because none of my vehicles have ever been fitted with sill protection,heavy duty front and rear bars,front and rear diff locks or any of the other macho bush tucker man wannabee crap. PatYou kill me mate. I'm still rolling around on the floor.

Cheers

[ozscott]

Leather seats dont last, get rips, and what if you get them wet.In my experience leather usually lasts longer IF properly looked after. But not a.lot in it. D1 fabric in my 95 is better lasting than my d2. Certainly easier to keep clean.

Cheers

[ozscott]

I really, really think you are wrong about the 500mm being for each end. What can you quote?
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/09/303.jpghttps://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/09/304.jpgLooks as stiff as a board. Where is all that travel?

Cheers

[rammypluge]

LR Press pack on the D5 - "wheel articulation of 19.7 inches"
FFRR is actually has 23.5" - 597mm according to SAE International On road or off, Range Rover suspension up to the task (video) - SAE International (http://articles.sae.org/12337/)Okay, but thats total, including front and rear.

[rammypluge]

In my experience leather usually lasts longer IF properly looked after. But not a.lot in it. D1 fabric in my 95 is better lasting than my d2. Certainly easier to keep clean.

CheersOk, more maintenance, and a hot sweaty bum, or if it is the type with holes in it for seat air con, how do you clean that?

[ozscott]

Mate I have had both. Love the leather for many reasons. Cheers

[rammypluge]

LR Press pack on the D5 - "wheel articulation of 19.7 inches"
FFRR is actually has 23.5" - 597mm according to SAE International On road or off, Range Rover suspension up to the task (video) - SAE International (http://articles.sae.org/12337/)The front suspension reminded me of the touareg.

The Amarok has 9" of front suspension travel, and with the fitment of long travel rear shocks that seemingly require no other mods, it has 15" of rear articulation, giving a total of 24", just pipping the FFRR.https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/09/315.jpghttps://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/09/316.jpg

[rammypluge]

Mate I have had both. Love the leather for many reasons. CheersI imagine LR leather is probably better stuff than average, so lasts better. I was only talking generally, which includes a lot of lesser vehicles, including leather commodores, etc.

[ozscott]

Yep fair one mate. Cheers

[rammypluge]

Looks as stiff as a board. Where is all that travel?

CheersI reckon a RR Classic over the same hump would either keep all four on the deck or nearabouts. Just invented a word.

[1nando]

I think I've seen more flex from a 79 series.......actully i haven't, jokes.
Seriously though im not even slightly impressed with it. If i ever see one off road ill try to get a decent pic 🤣

[Zeros]

Until proven otherwise, the replacement for the defender and the base model disco has already arrived, in the form of the Amarok.https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/09/305.jpg

Amarok are a capable and comfortable car, but they're no replacement for a Defender. I'm pretty sure most D4 owners would say no replacement either. A replacement for D5 base model perhaps. You could try one for a couple of years like I did, but based on that experience, I'd be buying one of the last Defenders now, or waiting for the new 2020 Defender, as the OP says.

[rammypluge]

Amarok are a capable and comfortable car, but they're no replacement for a Defender. I'm pretty sure most D4 owners would say no replacement either. A replacement for D5 base model perhaps. You could try one for a couple of years like I did, but based on that experience, I'd be buying one of the last Defenders now, or waiting for the new 2020 Defender, as the OP says.Well, i partly grew up in a County 110, i crossed the simpson with my Amarok and a Perentie, and i have done a section of the Border Track with a new Defender. My Amarok has always been the more capable, comfortable, economical, etc vehicle. All vehicles were reliable, so equal on that score.

[PAT303]

It's funny how the D5 is no good but the almost identical Amarok is. Pat

[PAT303]

I reckon a RR Classic over the same hump would either keep all four on the deck or nearabouts. Just invented a word.

Your comparing the best mass produced live axle coil spring chassis ever,of course the D5 will not compare.Saying that, the all over performance of Land Rovers Independent chassis vehicles is above the coilers. And to prove I'm not biased,I love the RRC,so much so that after my pre production 2A an RRC is my next build. Pat

[PAT303]

Until proven otherwise, the replacement for the defender and the base model disco has already arrived, in the form of the Amarok.https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/09/305.jpg

I'll bet you a fifty that suspension isn't standard. Pat

[TB]

I just read on 4x4 Australia that the Amarok has "adequate" ground clearance of 192mm. Is that right? That's less than a stock Discovery Sport and I can tell you that's not enough for some pretty simple off-road driving. It would also make comparisons with the D5 a bit of apples and oranges as they're clearly designed with different priorities.

[Vern]

I'll bet you a fifty that suspension isn't standard. PatAgree, my amarok doesn't flex that easily

[rammypluge]

Your comparing the best mass produced live axle coil spring chassis ever,of course the D5 will not compare.Saying that, the all over performance of Land Rovers Independent chassis vehicles is above the coilers. And to prove I'm not biased,I love the RRC,so much so that after my pre production 2A an RRC is my next build. PatWell, my next 4x4 might well be a custom build based off a D3/4 chassis. So the plot thickens!