Thread: Finishing abs to non abs conversion

Originally Posted by strangy

I appreciate the terms have often been "spouted" but if the research hasnt been done, then for a road registered vehicle, people can and have been prosecuted.
Things havnt been said to put down Razor's efforts, but to ensure he has thorougly checked obligations and requirements and protect him in the event something unforesen and statistically unlikely, should occur.

It is a fact that RaZor will not be insured if the relevant bodies havnt given their OK. Insurance companies need much less than brake modifications to avoid a payout and if the insurance company is after RaZor for money then that will be whole new experience..

It is also a fact that if the Registering State authority do not approve of the mod he can be held liable. Regardless of whether they picked it up in an inspection or not.

The point is that in an accident with an injury or fataity and if RaZor were at fault, an inspection from any Crash Investigation Team will reveal the braking system fitted to the vehicle was modified and down graded from that originally fitted.

The onus is then on the RaZor to prove the brakes were NOT the problem not the other way around and without the appropriate registering body being informed and approving the mod, the case is all but over before it begins.

But rather than debate the workings of state systems and vehicle.
Different states may have a varying view, so if the "asking around" didnt include the relevant MVR, good luck. If it did and the answer allowed the go ahead, fantastic. A few pics and notes for the Good Oil would be good.

cheers

Is this your personal experience? I assure you, the accident investigators said different about fatalities last I was involved...

Originally Posted by rovercare

Is this your personal experience? I assure you, the accident investigators said different about fatalities last I was involved...

Was with the CIT following a fatal a while ago, it was a single vehicle incident with modified older vehicle. The investigator told me that the vehicles condition and modifications would be examined and evaluated as to what influence, if any, thay had on the causal factors of the crash.
This vehicle had brake upgrades, amongst other things, and engineering approval for it, however the investigator noted that; despite them being newer and bigger from a later model of the same vehicle, without the engineering approval, they would be noted as a possible contributing cause. The mods were to be checked against what the vehicle came with from the factory.

I cant speak for every state or circumstance and dont claim expert status on regulation.
I dont think the CIT in any state has the time or manpower to be as in depth for every fatal accident either.
I should have clarified in my earlier post I was referring to Civil Litigation proceedings and if someone wants to push for litigation it will be a factor in the proceedings.

As said earlier if after a check with the relevant Registration body the mod is approved/ accepted, then there is no problem.

Again I am not disparaging this, just suggesting the covering of ones butt, house, job, financial future by confirming the local regs in the event of something going wrong.

I guess RaZzor will be back sooner or later and let us know what the relevant authoities in his state have had to say.

cheers

Originally Posted by strangy

Was with the CIT following a fatal a while ago, it was a single vehicle incident with modified older vehicle. The investigator told me that the vehicles condition and modifications would be examined and evaluated as to what influence, if any, thay had on the causal factors of the crash.
This vehicle had brake upgrades, amongst other things, and engineering approval for it, however the investigator noted that; despite them being newer and bigger from a later model of the same vehicle, without the engineering approval, they would be noted as a possible contributing cause. The mods were to be checked against what the vehicle came with from the factory.

I cant speak for every state or circumstance and dont claim expert status on regulation.
I dont think the CIT in any state has the time or manpower to be as in depth for every fatal accident either. But if someone wants to push for litigation (civil as opposed to criminal) it will be a factor in the proceedings.

As said earlier if after a check with the relevant Registration body the mod is approved/ accepted, then there is no problem.

Again I am not disparaging this, just suggesting the covering of ones butt, house, job, financial future by confirming the local regs in the event of something going wrong.

I guess RaZzor will be back sooner or later and let us know what the relevant authoities in his state have had to say.

cheers

The dudes who investigated a fatality in which a mate of mine died, in a modified rr classic to which I'd had hands in body lift, extended brakes, differing pads, larger tyres etc said even though not engineered, the workmanship was fine and doubtful as a contributing factor, also said you'd have to show some major negligence to suffer any repercussions

The wreck after being recovered was held at my joint as the owners wanted out of sight considering what had happened

The investigator was quite open in you have to make some serious balls ups to be held liable

Oh, they were more interested in component failure, very interested in steerings arms etc, basically cutting and shutting of steering components

Originally Posted by RaZz0R

yeah mines the voge se - and very glad its not in there anymore!

I think the ABS system is a good system and worth the repairs, there's not much to it really + I get the ETC on the rear diff. Will be a bit of a bugger when the pump fails but ohwell.

Have been told its all good.

The project was good to undertake and I can provide details for the good oil I replaced it as I didn't like it off road - if I have a problem like an alternator going I loose the brakes, the pump is PITA, harder to find seals and parts for the system.

IMO - the ABS was junk, even when it worked correctly. Off road it was even worse.
Being a motorcycle rider I laugh at police brake tests by just locking it up and hitting the brakes as hard as they can. My experience in controlled braking situations is much better suited to a normal booster setup than ABS anyway.

So again - IMO - if you need ABS you need a lesson in how to brake stomping a pedal is not how to brake.

However - I do understand what a few of you are trying to say. If they fail - I am screwed and this is why it has been checked over by someone other than me to ensure all plumbing is correct for the twin circuit and everything is working as it should. Being safe is always number one. Also I spent along time researching the best options and all parts before starting the work. I was well informed for the actual work.


So while it has been great to point out that it might not have been legit - would anyone be willing to tell me if there is any earthing for the wipers around the abs system or block?
Since removing the system my wipers no longer work

Originally Posted by RaZz0R

Have been told its all good.


So again - IMO - if you need ABS you need a lesson in how to brake stomping a pedal is not how to brake.

My wife will be driving mine too(when it gets registered) but I'd hate to try and think that she could control the braking under a panic moment.... No offence to female drivers

advanced driving course?
Pitty it is not apart of the normal driving test really. Long gone are paddock basher days for 99% of people :/