Thread: Think I have found the 'one'

Hate to sound like a Dealer "But they all do that".... or at least the three Discos/Defenders that I've had from that era.

One was a brand new Disco 300TDi that I was assured would get better - but never did, through to a current 260k km Defender. They all just crunch between 1st & 2nd.

Giving it a brief pause helps signifcantly to the point that I don't notice it any more - but I've driven for the past 15 years with a crunch gearbox. Only notice it now when the Misses is driving or when I'm racing off at the lights (if that's possible in a Defender?!?!?!)

my disco shifts smoothly through all gears, full history and 212km

Being a 1997 model it will (unless it's been swapped) have an R380 5 speed which is the better of the boxes fitted to Disco's. It's more robust and certainly smoother than the LT77 box it replaced.

From all the R380 boxes I've had contact none have had any hassles with 1st to 2nd, whereas most of the LT77s do.

Even though it says low kms on the odometer, the fact it has car park rash suggests it may well have had a rough urban life - lots of traffic lights, short runs etc. It's one reason I dislike dealer cars - very hard to find out just how the vehicle was used whereas private vendors give you a better chance to find out the real story. Yes, they too can spin a yarn, but the dealers do it for a living.

Unless it's a bargain - less than $5K - $6K I would walk away. Gearbox rebuilds are seldom below $2K, often more than $3K, and having done so myself I would not call them an easy undertaking to rebuild yourself. IMHO If it's more than $8,000 absolutely forget it - you could easily spend half that again fixing it. It might be less, but are you a gambler?

Thanks for the responses.

So its a bit of a split decsion, could be normal or could be a sign of something.

MacMan, its not what I would call an absolute "bargin" but it is the best allrounder I have seen so far especially with the kms it has on it everything else I have looked at has been more tatty and grubby with over 220,000kms and still up for $7,500+.

I dont mind paying more for a car from a dealer as at least I feel I have a bit of comeback and warranty. In fact its coming with a three year mechanical warranty so I guess if the gear box drops out then at least I can claim.

I was more concerned that it may have been the clutch and whilst it wasn't slipping when I tried it, it may be low and need replacing shortly as you rightly pointed out stop start driving can be hard on a clutch.

I will be getting it poperly serviced after I have picked it up and plan to have the diff, gearbox, and any other major fluids changed over the first few weeks of ownership, that is of course in wifey gives me the thumbs up this evening.

Regards
PaulM

Don't take this the wrong way, but I think you're missing my point here.

Something substantial is not happy. What you are reporting is not normal in a good way. It IS normal for a car that has a transmission that is closer to failure than not.

At that sort of mileage, one would not expect to have a problem with the gearbox yet, unless it's been mistreated. R380s are generally good for much more than this one has covered.

The sort of issue you are experiencing is not what you'd find on a clutch with worn friction material either. If the throwout bearing is failing it can make gear selection more difficult, but it will make it difficult to select any gear from stationary more than just 1st to 2nd. Trying to shift into first from a standstill will be hardest if that is the problem. If shifting to first is fine, then I'd say it's within the gearbox. That's a $$$ issue.

Bear in mind that the warranty may only cover you in terms of serious failure, not "I think this is worn, can you fix it". You're choosing buying the car WITH the wear and the issue. I've been driving a worn gearbox for 90,000km and it hasn't failed yet, but the 2nd synchro has been a PITA the whole time. I bought the Disco knowing it needed doing, and I drive around the problem. The Girlie hates driving it because of the crotchety shift when cold.

Do your homework on the problem and preferably take it to a Rover specialist for a pre-purchase assessment.

All the best with it...

Hi Paul as Macman said take it to a Land Rover specialist and get a pre-purchase inspection. I have a 98 Disco with 211,000 ks and it doesn't crunch gears, it does clunk going from first to second if the clutch is let out to fast but that appears to be an A frame ball joint problem. The R380 gear boxes also don't like cold weather and can be a bit notchy until they warm up, changing your gear oil to a synthetic oil apparently fixes that problem, so I'm told.

The head lining on Disco 1's all sag eventually, but is a cheap fix. As far a water leaks go the alpine windows can be a problem so keep an eye on those. As far as water leaks go the front foot wells is were you should be checking regularly as the air con drain pipes have a tendency to block up and the water over flows down the sides of the transmission tunnel under the carpet, this is not a place were you would want to start cutting rust out.

When buying from a dealer you are going to pay more than what it's worth, when I bought mine 18 months ago I could have bought one cheaper privately, but I doubt I would have got one with all the accessories mine came with for the price. At the end of the day it doesn't really matter what you pay for something as long as your happy with it.

MacMan,

Not taken the wrong way at all I do value all your inputs, I have only driven 4 discos so far and 3 of those where autos, so i have no base line to compare against and hence the question.

Originally Posted by MacMan

The sort of issue you are experiencing is not what you'd find on a clutch with worn friction material either. If the throwout bearing is failing it can make gear selection more difficult, but it will make it difficult to select any gear from stationary more than just 1st to 2nd. Trying to shift into first from a standstill will be hardest if that is the problem. If shifting to first is fine, then I'd say it's within the gearbox. That's a $$$ issue.

At a standstill it goes in to first fine it is only first to second when changing up after pulling away, changing down is fine and changing up first to second when in low range is also fine. A search on here for "crunchy gears" mentioned it could be down to cold oil or cheap oil, which would fit with the later set of service history stamps (from an independant mobile mechanic) and I am all for trying the cheapest option first . But I am under no illusion that expensive oil could cure a problem, just make it a bit easier to live with.

What would the approximate cost be to have a reconditioned gearbox fitted then?

Definatelty will be taking it for a pre purchase check to local firm called AAuto in brookvale to see what they say.

Thanks
PaulM

Reco cost is a typical case of "string length" unfortunately. Depends on a) what is ill in the box, and b) how carefully the rebuilder is looking and c) how picky they are.

I have an LT77 (the older box) in bits at the moment. I bought it with a transfer relatively cheap from someone on here and could have put it in as it was. Probably should have too. Then I decided to reseal the main exterior seals on rotating shafts, then I decided it really should have a couple of other things done.

One mob I'd spoken to about rebuilding just throw a new set of bearings and synchros in and hope for the best in terms of how it all shims up - could be fine, or all could be rooted in 40,000km.

I decided to do it myself because I'm stubborn and curious. To have someone else do what I am doing on both boxes would cost waaaaay more than $4500 drive in and out. The 5 speed alone is getting new seals, bearings, one new shift fork, 5 new synchros, new hub and sleeve for 1st/2nd, new second gear and a new mainshaft. I'm on the second new mainshaft and waiting for another hub/sleeve assembly to be delivered because I was not happy with one aspect of the first replacement ones.

My point is that you want to buy this cheap if there is ANY chance you'll need a rebuild because you'll only truly know the extent of the problem once it's already your problem.