Thread: Two Stroke oil?

This is what I read and the link

Freel2.com - View topic - 2-stroke oil and diesel

To all interested:
due to the pollution control measures of the EC diesel-oil is nearly sulphur free and contains up to 5% of bio-diesel. Sulphur has the property to grease the high pressure injection pump and the injectors. Without sulphur, the reduced greasing property of the new diesel has already shown negativ impacts on the long-term stability of the injectors and the high pressure pump. The pump manufacturers have tried to react by lining the moving parts of the pumps with teflon or other suitable material. However, the long term stability is still not achieved as with the old (sulphor contained) diesel.
The engine-research centre of a well known German car manufacurer has conducted some long term tests of diesel additives to find out whether any one of them will have an impact on the long term reliability of the diesel engine components. This introduction to explain were my information comes from.
The results of this research: any diesel additive of any manufacturer presently on the market is not worth the money!
BUT: 2-stroke oil, which we use in our motor saws, lawn mower or in 2-stroke motor engines has shown to have an extreme positive impact on diesel engines, if such 2-stroke oil is added to the diesel in a homoeophatic dosis of 1:200. In practical terms: 0,300 litre of 2-stroke oil into the 70l diesel tank. The 2-stroke oil will be absorbed by the diesel (emulsion) and grease every moving part of the high pressure pump and the injectors.
Besides this, the 2-stroke oil will keep the diesel engine clean, as it burnes cleaner as the diesel itself.
In other words, the 2-stroke oil has a much lower ash-content as diesel, when burned. This proven fact delays the DPF (diesel particulate (soot) filter) to clogg, and the "burn free" process of the DPF will be much less.
One more information: in Germany we have to present our cars every 2 years to the TUV -Technical Supervision Organisation - who will check, amongs others, the pollution of petrol and diesel engines.
The measured cloud-factor of a diesel engine without use of 2-stroke oil has been 0,95.
The same factor with the use of 2-stroke oil has been 0,47 - reduction of nearly half of the soot particles.
Besides this, the use of 2-stroke oil in the diesel will increase the milage by 3-5%.

I put 200ml in each of 2 full tank loads of diesel, missus filled up yesterday and I didnt have any left to put in it.

I cant really say if it made a difference to power/economy, if i said it did i'd be lying, but the major benefit according to some sites is the lubrication of fuel system components, namely the injector pump and unless you run two identical disco's on the same fuel all of the time and do the same driving all the time and have one with no 2 stroke and one with it in the tank you will never know the effects it has on how long your injector pump lasts.

It cant hurt though can it?

Some people will say that it is a placebo effect however, there is a DEFINITE reduction in the "knocking" sound that my diesel engine makes. So noticeable in fact my wife asked me "what I'd done to make the engine quieter?"

I also am convinced that the engine revs up quicker and smoother without doubt.
I have no idea about fuel economy, but the difference that 300ml's makes is astounding as far as I'm concerned.

I just found an entire thread on it in "Technical Chatter."

I think it's worth a go.

Its all in the thread below, the original post on the Freelander forum is extensive and I only wish I had a diesel to try it out.

Adding 2 stoke oil to your diesel

All ULSD sold has a minimum lubricity requirement, IIRC it's around 0.46mm scar in the relevant test, which means the refinery has to add a lubricant for ULSD to meet the spec.

As has been mentioned in the other threads on here, adding two stroke is nothing new and good diesel fuel additives have it, eg Redline RL2 but is it really necessary ?

Early versions of ULSD used in underground mining, etc would kill rotary injection pumps in no time, workshops reported the internals were blue from overheating, but I haven't heard of any problems with current ULSD fuels.
If there was we'd have a spate of old diesel owners on here, right up to the Tdi's reporting premature pump damage, and yet it's pretty rare to hear of pump issues (excepting one member a few years back)

Originally Posted by Peppercorn

This is what I read and the link

Freel2.com - View topic - 2-stroke oil and diesel

To all interested:
due to the pollution control measures of the EC diesel-oil is nearly sulphur free and contains up to 5% of bio-diesel. Sulphur has the property to grease the high pressure injection pump and the injectors. Without sulphur, the reduced greasing property of the new diesel has already shown negativ impacts on the long-term stability of the injectors and the high pressure pump. The pump manufacturers have tried to react by lining the moving parts of the pumps with teflon or other suitable material. However, the long term stability is still not achieved as with the old (sulphor contained) diesel.
The engine-research centre of a well known German car manufacurer has conducted some long term tests of diesel additives to find out whether any one of them will have an impact on the long term reliability of the diesel engine components. This introduction to explain were my information comes from.
The results of this research: any diesel additive of any manufacturer presently on the market is not worth the money!
BUT: 2-stroke oil, which we use in our motor saws, lawn mower or in 2-stroke motor engines has shown to have an extreme positive impact on diesel engines, if such 2-stroke oil is added to the diesel in a homoeophatic dosis of 1:200. In practical terms: 0,300 litre of 2-stroke oil into the 70l diesel tank. The 2-stroke oil will be absorbed by the diesel (emulsion) and grease every moving part of the high pressure pump and the injectors.
Besides this, the 2-stroke oil will keep the diesel engine clean, as it burnes cleaner as the diesel itself.
In other words, the 2-stroke oil has a much lower ash-content as diesel, when burned. This proven fact delays the DPF (diesel particulate (soot) filter) to clogg, and the "burn free" process of the DPF will be much less.
One more information: in Germany we have to present our cars every 2 years to the TUV -Technical Supervision Organisation - who will check, amongs others, the pollution of petrol and diesel engines.
The measured cloud-factor of a diesel engine without use of 2-stroke oil has been 0,95.
The same factor with the use of 2-stroke oil has been 0,47 - reduction of nearly half of the soot particles.
Besides this, the use of 2-stroke oil in the diesel will increase the milage by 3-5%.

Boy, where do I start ?

First up, the sulphur present in diesel has absolutely no lubrication properties whatsoever.
It's a straight out contaminant, yet this old wives tale persists.
Due to the old style common process of removing the sulphur from the fuel at the refinery, the aromatic components that provided the lubricity to the fuel were also removed.
I don't know how it works at the very recently updated refineries we have here now for the <10PPM sulphur diesel, but as I mentioned in the post above a lubricant is added back into the fuel post processing if those aromatics have gone.


As for a petroleum based two stroke fuel burning cleaner than diesel ?
Have you ever pulled a two stroke apart ?

The maximum ash level in pre '02 Australian diesel was 0.01%, (back when our sulphur levels were greater than 500PPM)
I'm not sure what it is now, but it'd be hard to find basic two stroke oil with that low a level of ash.

Some two stroke oils are exceptionally clean burning, but they are generally expensive ester based synthetics, the old style and very common petroleum based two stroke lubes are pretty dirty.
The question also need asking, which two stroke style is best ?

There are several different blends, based on the operating characteristics of the engine they are used in.

Water cooled outboard type two strokes have additives that burn off at pretty low combustion temps due to the low combustion temsp and relatively low operating RPM's (for a two stroke).

Water cooled motor bike oils have additives that resist higher combustion temps and much higher operating revs (relative to the watercraft blends), although those that meet JASO FD specs have relatively low flash temps to help meet the injector and cleanliness requirements of JASO FD.

High speed racing two stroke blends have relatively high flash points and are loaded with anti-wear and anti-scuff additives, and the extremely high speed types are still blended with castor oil, which does leave a fair bit of ash residue in long term use.

Bio-diesel has been shown to have exceptional lubricity, (the production process is an esterfication of an oil or fat) and adding between 2 and 5% to ULSD enables it to meet/exceed the AS lubricity requirement.
This is what some of the fuel companies are now doing.

Put it this way, large trucks are doing 1,000,000km with little to no repairs these days and that includes the injection systems.
I used to regularly talk to one industry consultant who is extremely knowledgeable on maintenance and lubricants and all he ever used in his trucks was straight diesel yet he showed improved cost/benefit results from running full synthetic lubricants from his engines right through his drivelines (including improved fuel economy)

So, I take it that you don't like the idea??

I mean we're talking about 300ml's to 80 litres. That is a ratio of something like 267:1

It just cannot do much harm, can it? and for me, it certainly HAS made a difference in that diesel engine knocking sound at idle and acceleration, which to me, shows that it DOES aid in combustion.

I have been using 2-stroke at app 120ml to 80l fuel
for about 1 year now. I also think it is quieter but cannot prove it.
Also fuel consumption seems to be down (good records kept but
variations happen), getting as low as 9.8l/100km to 10.5
with 2t trailer behind.

Thinking about stopping use of oil for a while to compare.

Andrew

'93 200tdi Disco
'65 88's2a