Thread: t-seals and 12 point bolts

MR automotive carry them and you can reuse them if you need to.

Im pretty sure that one of my local nut and bolteries carries them but with a 6 point head.

Thanks Dave, was hoping you'd chime in.

Ummm...it was MR that said they reuse them...don't stock them...could order them in if I really wanted them. May have to do this, unless you can throw me a name of one of your local suppliers you think might stock them.

Anyway, have reused them and just hope the 130Nm is not torque to yield.

Couple of other interesting asides while doing this exercise. The bearing shell itself was polished white metal on most of the drivers side of the arc. Most of the passenger side was matt white. Not sure if that is the usual state for bearings in these engines. When I removed the rear crank seal I found the crank and the seal dry! Ran my finger around the crank end and no oil evident. The crank path under the seal was polished.

I wondered at the need for a comprehensive t-seal. It seems that it is the very bottom edge of the journal that will leak, just where it meets the bell housing. The sump stops short of covering the whole bottom face of the journal, and it is this exposed edge that seemed to be leaking in my case. If the crank seal is installed correctly then it would stop oil that gets past the t-seal, but then direct it down the t-seal groove, to the bottom edge not covered by the sump. If you could successfully block that edge you might not need t-seals.

I checked out a few bolt tables on the web that state max torque is 130Nm, which accords with Haynes torque requirement. But what is 'maximum torque' - is it at the limit of elastic range, or into plastic range and tty?

Have sent an email to atlasbolts in the US to see if the bolt is their creation.

Tried many places in Darwin - one response summed up hoping to find anything like this in Darwin - 'you're screwed!'. One place came up with 10.9 but the hex head was way too big for the countersunk hole.

Tried googling Oz and ebay but next to nothing came up for 12 point - one racing place in Adelaide, but they only keep very long bolts.

Couldn't see anything on Craddocks, Paddocks, or Turners in UK.

The family normally run three Disco's and one Corolla - all three Disco's have fallen over in the last few weeks and now we just have the Corolla. Bit nervous now as we live in a rural area.

Email Craddocks, I'm sure they could source for you.

I believe that Land rover started using sealer, silkaflex?, on the T seal in stead of the cork seal on earlier. I'm sure I remember them switching to sealer on a host of areas.

Thanks Steve. I've read about the change from solid t-seal to silicone or similar. Even read where guys throw away part of the t-seal and instead soak cordage in silicon and then ram the cordage home in the t-slot, also used on other makes of vehicle where crank shell is part of sump wall. So that's one issue.

The other is where mechanics say they just reuse parts where Land Rover says replace, and in this case where I would guess the crank journal is a critical load area?

They are good guys at MR Auto so don't get me wrong. Another instance of variance is that they do lube the crank seal despite all the dire warnings from others on forums like this not to. They are in the business of offering warranty on work so one can only guess their methods are not failing.

So as a home mechanic I am perplexed at the differing advice from various sources.

Yeah the dry crank seal has got me but I have never fitted one with oil on it so no idea how they go when lubed up

460cixy - I guess if you aren't getting leaks then its some proof toward a dry install. But then you read of guys burning out their seal in short time because they didn't lube at the outset - purportedly using non-OEM.

As to my previous lament, it is very confusing for the home mechanic when there is conflicting information/methods. The replacement parts we use often have no instructions. You have to make a choice as to method, eventually, but you try to think it through before making that choice, fingers crossed.

Now for a bit more of a rant...

Some might say just rely on the experience of others. After reading many recommendations I tried the washer behind the belt tensioner to get alignment and get rid of squeaks, which it did - but then a few weeks later the whole unit fell off after the bolt holding it on snapped! The washer creates a tiny gap between normally mated surfaces, removing friction, transferring the whole load to the bolt. Likewise, in the current situation the common decree says I should reuse the bearing bolts while the manual says replace...hmmm.

Sometimes there are implied assumptions ie for automotive purposes when installing bolts they are lightly oiled to achieve required torque and clamp force, unless specified dry or otherwise. Similarly, is there an assumption that you lube all seals at installation? The Haynes manual does not seem to specify lubing the rear crank seal, but nor does it say install 'dry'.

And again, Haynes in the text says loctite your nose bolt, while the actually torque list in Haynes says no loctite (and my BMW workshop manual torque list also does not specify loctite). Some guys swear by loctite on the nose bolt. I believe loctite adds slightly more friction than light oil. I assume the whole thread should be lubricated by oil or loctite!!! to achieve approximation of friction for accurate torquing. And I don't think you can oil your bolt for torque and loctite a bit for security as loctite and oil don't mix as I understand. How many of those who loctite their bolt actually clean out the old loctite before a re-install? Self fulfilling? Don't clean out loctite, therefore not correct torque, therefore use more loctite to remediate? Haynes being written by mechanics, they like to ensure no warranty issues regardless of whether correct torque reached, so loctite it to be sure - just hope the owner has moved on by next service

my usual is to reuse the bottom end bolts, 130NM isnt even close to the yeild strength of the bolt.

I fit the T seals with buckets of hylomar if thats what is wanted but will just as happily do a dry instal of the bottom end and then inject a high temp oil resistant sealastic.

NO lube on the rear main seal.

In either case. Cleanup AFTER the installation of the main journal is paramount.


loctite nickel or silver antiseize on the nose bolt and to up to (from memory) 90NM +90 degrees or 400NM. ( I do the former)