Thread: D1 300Tdi spring options

Originally Posted by Rick1970

Should be toe out……1-2mm roughly.

Absolutely correct.............. brain fade on my part.

The OP is likely to have reasonable steering with his current spring set up (arse down) because that will increase caster to compensate for caster lost in the lift.

Things might change if it gets levelled.

DL

Originally Posted by Rick1970

Early ones didn’t have bars fitted, dropping both Dosnt really do that much, leaving rear on goes some way to forcing a bit more articulation into the front. Had all on, all off, and only front or rear on mine….. rear only seems to be best compromise…… and certainly better on road that none at all.

Thanks for the tip, I'll definitely consider that.

Originally Posted by Slunnie

Years ago I installed the D2 version of them and we tested the rates at Lovells Springs. This was while developing a very new and different setup with Lovells and Bilstein. There is a bit of parts sharing. Your Disco is more level than just about any other Disco on the planet with those H2G measurements, I'd be very happy with that aspect of them. If you're not happy with the stiffness of the fronts, then the KRFR-03, but if it is the ride you're feeling, then more than likely it will be due to shock valving. Even stiff springs (within range) don't affect the ride comfort significantly, but shocks can. I'd also look at the Old Man Emu range, I think they're closer to the spec you're after but you'd have to check the rates - I haven't run them. You're probably looking at about 220lb/in front and 270+ on the rear depending on load. But, as I was saying previously, I'd wait and pass judgement after your bar, winch and batteries are fitted as those springs are designed to carry those loads.

Ahh, thank you. It would be handy if the spring rates on some of their other springs were known, but it sounds like they're not even available to retailers. I'd really like to know the difference in spring rate of the KRFR-03s, as the HD version is only rated to 50-100kg constant load. I think the shocks are fine, the ride is far better than with the standard springs and worn out shocks.

Originally Posted by Slunnie

Early Discos didn't run sway bars, but they also drove and handled like a boat - which is why they were fitted ever since. My Disco2 has electronic swaybars (ACE) which I can switch off, and it handles and steers really badly with the sway bars in floppy (disconnected) mode. I'd never drive it on the road like that. If you try it out then you will have experienced it. Maybe consider sway bar disconnects instead. The Disco update in 1994 is a far better handling version.

Thank you. I think I'll have to disconnect the front sway bar, see how it drives, check the articulation again and make a decision from there. My other daily is a 79 series LandCruiser with 35s, 3" lift and sway bar deleted so I may be more tolerant of body roll than others.

Originally Posted by Slunnie

In relation to mid corner push, is it actually push or does it feel like push? If it is actual push from hitting corners stupidly hard and putting it into a slide, then LandRover build that in and I think it is a part of the reason why they spec such low tyre pressures which also induces a safer push and removes some twitchiness. If it is twitching and just feels like midcorner push, that can also happen because it hasn't got enough roll control at the rear which is why it twitches after turn in. ie Turn in, body rolls creating the feeling of push, then it takes that set for the rest of the corner and exit. Thats a Disco problem with a high steel roof, rear links on an angle and little rear sway control. That was a problem I spent a lot of time on developing a solution to in the Disco2 with big lifts and the solution is sway control on the rear. It also removes the flightiness and twitch out of it at higher road speeds.

I don't drive it hard enough to experience any twitchyness, however the grip levels are pretty easy to exceed on the dirt and some wet roads, and in those conditions it does understeer a lot more than it used to.

Originally Posted by AK83

where did you take the measurements from (and too), for example to get 895mm for FL .. and so on?

I've never measured actual height of car/spring/hub/body/etc.

I've been taught to measure the bump stop clearance, from many moons ago when I ran my RRC back in the early 90s.
Make sure the bump stops are the same thickness first, that haven't hardened and shrunk, or been wornn/chipped, cut or whatever by some unknown process/person.

I measured from the ground to the guard. I realise it's not ideal, but I'm glad I at least did it this way rather than not measuring at all.

Originally Posted by AK83

Have a look at LRA(Les Richmond Auto) website HERE

They have a range of springs with various rates and lenghts. If you go to their site(ie. click the link) you will see they have a graph of what spring (length) is appropriate for a give weight over the axle.

The way the graph works (and it's small, so hard to see) but they have colour variables for each spring type(length and stiffness) .. eg. purple/yellow .. and each spring has a dash of paint to show this.
On the graph, see the diagonal line for purple/yellow(ends at the bottom rh corner).
if you also click on the buy springs link in the link, it takes you to a grid of 'colour images' instead of pics of springs .. again this is just the dash of paint on the springs.
Their springs are dobinsons, and will be the usual dobinson blue coated springs, with the dashes of whatever paint.

The purple and yellow colour relates to a spring that is 390mm in free length, and a rate of 235lbs/inch.
Every 235lbs(106-ish kgs) will compress the spring by 1 inch(25mm).

If you weigh each axle on the D1, you then know how much each axle will then sag by with that weight(following the line of the colour chart). So the purple/yellow spring on a std 1200 kg axle on a D1, will start of with 260(ish) millimeters of length and drop to 225mm length with an extra 300kgs over it. Remember that each axle has 2 springs(so half the rates in effect) .. so the 35mm of drop with 300 kgs(ie. 150 kg per spring) ... 100kg per 25mm rate ... ie. roughly 35mm of drop/sag/droop/compression/whatever you prefer to call it.

Workshop manual is a bit sparse on data, and spring lengths are not listed for the D1(they are for the D2, as well as bump stop clearances). RHS springs are almost always longer lengths than the LHS springs, this then balances out weight of driver only, transfer box weight and whatever, so car sits level.

Thanks so much for the information and explanation. I've had a quick look but will go through it more thoroughly when I have the time. Knowing what I know now I probably should've purchased springs from there to begin with. If I end up deciding to swap both front and rear springs again I'll probably go that way.

Originally Posted by AK83

Another thing to note with springs shims and spacers: on the rear of the late D1s should be an isolator. rubber ring. these can wear, or get lost by a previous owner or prior mechanic or something. Make sure these are in good condition .. and then add any spacers.
From memory on their own they make up 20ish mm of spacing. Old chopped out isolators can make more road and bump noises .. new ones can eliminate some of this. They are cheap too($10 or something) if your disco fuly flexes and doesn't dislocate it's springs, you could add another isolator at the bottom of the spring too. double isolation(rather than hard clangy metal). The isolators, when new, should have a very defined 'castle top' pattern on them, not batted to a smooth finish.

The isolators were intact and I did move them over to the new springs. The seemed to be in good condition, the top looked like a picatinny rail. From memory they added more like 10mm to the spring length. I hadn't considered fitting extras to the other end of the springs, that's a neat idea. It looks like they're around $22 each at the moment though, so that's pretty close to the price of polyurethane coil spacers. The shocks springs are still held captive at full articulation with the factory clamps and shock mounts in place.