300 TDI Wont Start ??

These pix might give a better idea how the injector lines are routed!Attachment 14774

Attachment 14775

Attachment 14776

Probably a not the case, but no one has mentioned it. Any chance that it's not getting enough air? Rag in the intake or similar?

Simon

Does the monster live yet?

Not yet, will do some looking today ! AGAIN:twisted:

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Originally Posted by klappers

Does the monster live yet?

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Morning JC, From the pic's posted the lines seem correct ?? Its really hard to be sure though ?? do you know of a diagram or something I can double check with ? Is it on the Rave CD ?
Cheers
Jeremy

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Originally Posted by justinc

What Dave just said about incorrectly assembled pump, check that it IS correct as I have had one incorrectly assembled in the past. Apparently the diagram was wrong in the rebuild book:mad::confused: IIRC 1 and 4 were back to front or something similar, AND the confusion arose because the rebuilder thought the engine concerned was a euro spec EGR/ EDC pump, which is not an australian released vehicle (thank goodness.) The injector lines were not interchangeable between pumps, if you had an EDC engine and swapped pumps, then the injector lines are not transferrable from EDC to our VE mechanical pumps you need the mechanical VE pump AND the lines to go with it.


JC

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Id ask someone with a TDI that has to cover off to trace and mark each injector line on the back of the pump. X dots for the injector that each line goes to

from memory the firing order looking at the back of the pump should be

--------2
------1---4
--------3
(the dashes are just to keep the numbers in the right spacing)


this is where checking which injector is injecting when pot 1 is on compression comes in as its possable to assemble the pump in a couple of different ways (and there is also versions of the pump that rotate the otherway)

OK, update !

I have spent today following the instructions below to rule them out!

A: We have primed the fuel with the glow plugs out and get a healthy flow of diesel at the injectors

B: I have gravity fed the system bypassing the lift pump with no better result.

C: Regarding the IP assembled wrong or the injector lines being in different locations, I first mathed up from the pic's posted and found that the lines looked to be located in the corrct position ! But to make sure we removed the rocker cover and followed the steps below to test when the IP squirted fuel into no1 line when the the inlet valve opened AND IT DID !!, I also turned the engine over on the starter and each time the inlet valve opened it squirted diesel out to the no1 line !!! (AS FAR AS I CAN SEE THIS IS CORRECT !)

D : Since we had it exposed we removed the injector and reconected it as per instructins below and got a beatifull spray !!!

E: It still wont GO !, other than a squirt of WD 40 in glow plug hole again caused it to fire when i first started turning it over !
HELP :(:(:(

Somthings I have noted :
The injector con-caved washer i beleve is not new and not looking concaved anymore ?? wood this cause loss of compression if its not sealing ?

Also I still beleve the glow plugs are not working !, but you all tell me that wont matter (especiall as its over 30deg here in Perth today !)

All in all the engine sounds nice when its turing over, it sounds like it has compression all the rockers are rolling nicely it just wont go ?:(:mad:

anything else i can rule out ?
Cheers and Thanks
Jeremy

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Originally Posted by Blknight.aus

grab yourself an off sider to operate the driver controls and swing a spanner

ok so it fired up on wd40 and oil, cool, weve got compression and valve timing near enough.

first pull the glow plugs again less compression means faster cranking which gives a quicker prime.

slack off all the union nuts on the injectors and have some one crank over the engine using the key you should get a regularly timed spurt of fuel from each injector union, if thats the case the fuel system is bled up again and all you need to do is nip up the unions and if all else is well it will start and run once you put the glow plugs back in. If you dont get any fuel redo your fuel system prime and if you cant then bypass the lift pump by gravity feeding a jerry into the line that hooks up to the output side of the pump. If you still cant get it to bleed remove the electric solenoid that shuts off the fuel. If you cant get it to bleed after that you have a blocked line.

to test a glow plug hook it directly across the battery without holding onto the business end and it should heat up rapidly. Dont do it for too long as it will overheat and that can kill them. alternatively check it for resistance as long as all 4 are at about the same resistance they should be all good, once youve done all that have someone activate the glow circut while you put a test lamp onto the connection that goes to the glow plug, if that lights up chances are its not your glow plugs. (at any rate the tdi generally doesnt need the glow plugs to start other than they keep the compression in but may take substantially more cranking if they arent working)

next up get the engine on the compession stroke of #1 (start at just after BDC on the compression stroke, which with the rocker cover off is just after the inlet valve on #1 closes) with the engine turned on and ready to start (fuel system primed and with fuel at the injector unions) but with the glow plugs removed. Remove the #1 injector line, clean the union fitting and watch the back of the pump fitting while your off sider rotates the engine in the normal direction of rotation. As soon as you see the slightest amount of diesel at the fitting that is the start of the injection stroke on the pump and should be somewhere between 20 degrees BTDC and TDC (refer to RAVE). If you get nothing there then its time to remove all the lines and clean all of the pump side fittings its possable that the pump has been assembled out of phase or installed that way if its out of phase exactly 90 180 or 270 degrees (the union for 3,4 or 2 inject when #1 should be) then you can get away with reordering your injector lines but retiming the pump is the best answer. If the timing is off redo the pump timing

Assuming that its not out of phase since you have the #1 injector line off at this stage fit it back on but in such a way that the fitting is out in the middle of nowhere. Remove the injectors (mark them so they go back in the same holes and dont forget to get new sealing washers before you start this) and install them one at a time upside down on that injector line.

TAKE EXTREME CARE HERE YOU ARE DEALING WITH 1000PSI+ pressures that can inject diesel into your flesh and blood stream hold a card in front of the injector nozzle and supporting the injector so that the reaction force of injection doesnt bend the injector line check that the injector is spraying and doing so in something resembling the right manner, repeat this for all 4 injectors. (it would be supremely rare to have all injectors fail so badly at the same time that it would prevent the engine from running at all) If all injectors fail to crack then there is something wrong with the pump. If one or 2 pattern badly its time for new injectors.

if its none of that then you need to ask.

"Have I sacraficed to the Landrover Gods lately?"

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Hi jeremy,

You need to get fuel sprayng in AFTER the inlet valve is closed, and almost at TDC compression stroke.

On a petrol engine the fuel MUST be injected when the valve is open, but a Diesel engine requires injection at almost TDC so it will ignite with the high temps created under compression, IE Compression Ignititon.

JC

yep, if your injecting while the inlet valve is opening or open you are the best part of 180 degrees out of phase on the pump...

double check it while hand cranking the engine over (nice and slow with the glow plugs out using the bolt on the alternator) as when its happening on the starter at 300+ rpm you can easily misjudge it (been there fallen into that pit)

the best fix is to double check the timing of the 3 main drive pullys and make sure that you havent managed to put the cam on 180 out (been there done that too but not on a tdi) if your absolutely certain that the cam crank and pump pully timing is on the money then the pump has been assembled out of phase.

The best solution is to send it off to be redone, the easiest solution is to have the injector lines rebent.

OK, Now Im confussed. But can you tell me whats wrong from the results ?
Basicly turning over the engine by hand looking at valves the second one from the front (which i beleve is the inlet valve on No1 ?) as it starts to go down diesel squirts in no 1 line !

I still have the Rocker cover off, if you can tell me when the diesel should squirt in on each cylinder i shuld be able to re-plumb it to suit ? or get the pump re-timed.

Im sorry if I should be getting this easier !

Thanks JC

Cheers
Jeremy

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Originally Posted by justinc

Hi jeremy,

You need to get fuel sprayng in AFTER the inlet valve is closed, and almost at TDC compression stroke.

On a petrol engine the fuel MUST be injected when the valve is open, but a Diesel engine requires injection at almost TDC so it will ignite with the high temps created under compression, IE Compression Ignititon.

JC

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