Thread: 300 TDI Wont Start ??

OK, I put some oil and WD40 down the glow plug holes and she fired, blew a lot more white smoke and went back to not firing again !

while the glow plugs were out i rigged up a test wire earthing the plugs and a link wire to the circuit and found my glow plugs don't work ??

I am unable to get any injectors now ? and I also wonder if my lift pump is pushing enough fuel ?

Jezza,

Your glow plugs are fused on the fuel cutoff solenoid fuse. Does the glow lamp actually illuminate on the dash?

JC

Yes it does !

Originally Posted by justinc

Jezza,

Your glow plugs are fused on the fuel cutoff solenoid fuse. Does the glow lamp actually illuminate on the dash?

JC

grab yourself an off sider to operate the driver controls and swing a spanner

ok so it fired up on wd40 and oil, cool, weve got compression and valve timing near enough.

first pull the glow plugs again less compression means faster cranking which gives a quicker prime.

slack off all the union nuts on the injectors and have some one crank over the engine using the key you should get a regularly timed spurt of fuel from each injector union, if thats the case the fuel system is bled up again and all you need to do is nip up the unions and if all else is well it will start and run once you put the glow plugs back in. If you dont get any fuel redo your fuel system prime and if you cant then bypass the lift pump by gravity feeding a jerry into the line that hooks up to the output side of the pump. If you still cant get it to bleed remove the electric solenoid that shuts off the fuel. If you cant get it to bleed after that you have a blocked line.

to test a glow plug hook it directly across the battery without holding onto the business end and it should heat up rapidly. Dont do it for too long as it will overheat and that can kill them. alternatively check it for resistance as long as all 4 are at about the same resistance they should be all good, once youve done all that have someone activate the glow circut while you put a test lamp onto the connection that goes to the glow plug, if that lights up chances are its not your glow plugs. (at any rate the tdi generally doesnt need the glow plugs to start other than they keep the compression in but may take substantially more cranking if they arent working)

next up get the engine on the compession stroke of #1 (start at just after BDC on the compression stroke, which with the rocker cover off is just after the inlet valve on #1 closes) with the engine turned on and ready to start (fuel system primed and with fuel at the injector unions) but with the glow plugs removed. Remove the #1 injector line, clean the union fitting and watch the back of the pump fitting while your off sider rotates the engine in the normal direction of rotation. As soon as you see the slightest amount of diesel at the fitting that is the start of the injection stroke on the pump and should be somewhere between 20 degrees BTDC and TDC (refer to RAVE). If you get nothing there then its time to remove all the lines and clean all of the pump side fittings its possable that the pump has been assembled out of phase or installed that way if its out of phase exactly 90 180 or 270 degrees (the union for 3,4 or 2 inject when #1 should be) then you can get away with reordering your injector lines but retiming the pump is the best answer. If the timing is off redo the pump timing

Assuming that its not out of phase since you have the #1 injector line off at this stage fit it back on but in such a way that the fitting is out in the middle of nowhere. Remove the injectors (mark them so they go back in the same holes and dont forget to get new sealing washers before you start this) and install them one at a time upside down on that injector line.

TAKE EXTREME CARE HERE YOU ARE DEALING WITH 1000PSI+ pressures that can inject diesel into your flesh and blood stream hold a card in front of the injector nozzle and supporting the injector so that the reaction force of injection doesnt bend the injector line check that the injector is spraying and doing so in something resembling the right manner, repeat this for all 4 injectors. (it would be supremely rare to have all injectors fail so badly at the same time that it would prevent the engine from running at all) If all injectors fail to crack then there is something wrong with the pump. If one or 2 pattern badly its time for new injectors.

if its none of that then you need to ask.

"Have I sacraficed to the Landrover Gods lately?"

Thanks for your advice its awesome,
I have done some of what you have suggested and results are as follows:

removed the glow plugs, slackened off all the unions on injectors and I got a regularly timed spurt of fuel from each injector union!
Gave each pot a squirt of WD40 again and re-fitted the glow plugs.
Fired again but same as before occurred ??

Is there a chance i stuffed up the order of my lines when fitting the pump ?? Is there a standard configeration that I can check ? I guess following your next step below will rule it out !

Cheers

Originally Posted by Blknight.aus

grab yourself an off sider to operate the driver controls and swing a spanner

ok so it fired up on wd40 and oil, cool, weve got compression and valve timing near enough.

first pull the glow plugs again less compression means faster cranking which gives a quicker prime.

slack off all the union nuts on the injectors and have some one crank over the engine using the key you should get a regularly timed spurt of fuel from each injector union, if thats the case the fuel system is bled up again and all you need to do is nip up the unions and if all else is well it will start and run once you put the glow plugs back in. If you dont get any fuel redo your fuel system prime and if you cant then bypass the lift pump by gravity feeding a jerry into the line that hooks up to the output side of the pump. If you still cant get it to bleed remove the electric solenoid that shuts off the fuel. If you cant get it to bleed after that you have a blocked line.

to test a glow plug hook it directly across the battery without holding onto the business end and it should heat up rapidly. Dont do it for too long as it will overheat and that can kill them. alternatively check it for resistance as long as all 4 are at about the same resistance they should be all good, once youve done all that have someone activate the glow circut while you put a test lamp onto the connection that goes to the glow plug, if that lights up chances are its not your glow plugs. (at any rate the tdi generally doesnt need the glow plugs to start other than they keep the compression in but may take substantially more cranking if they arent working)

next up get the engine on the compession stroke of #1 (start at just after BDC on the compression stroke, which with the rocker cover off is just after the inlet valve on #1 closes) with the engine turned on and ready to start (fuel system primed and with fuel at the injector unions) but with the glow plugs removed. Remove the #1 injector line, clean the union fitting and watch the back of the pump fitting while your off sider rotates the engine in the normal direction of rotation. As soon as you see the slightest amount of diesel at the fitting that is the start of the injection stroke on the pump and should be somewhere between 20 degrees BTDC and TDC (refer to RAVE). If you get nothing there then its time to remove all the lines and clean all of the pump side fittings its possable that the pump has been assembled out of phase or installed that way if its out of phase exactly 90 180 or 270 degrees (the union for 3,4 or 2 inject when #1 should be) then you can get away with reordering your injector lines but retiming the pump is the best answer. If the timing is off redo the pump timing

Assuming that its not out of phase since you have the #1 injector line off at this stage fit it back on but in such a way that the fitting is out in the middle of nowhere. Remove the injectors (mark them so they go back in the same holes and dont forget to get new sealing washers before you start this) and install them one at a time upside down on that injector line.

TAKE EXTREME CARE HERE YOU ARE DEALING WITH 1000PSI+ pressures that can inject diesel into your flesh and blood stream hold a card in front of the injector nozzle and supporting the injector so that the reaction force of injection doesnt bend the injector line check that the injector is spraying and doing so in something resembling the right manner, repeat this for all 4 injectors. (it would be supremely rare to have all injectors fail so badly at the same time that it would prevent the engine from running at all) If all injectors fail to crack then there is something wrong with the pump. If one or 2 pattern badly its time for new injectors.

if its none of that then you need to ask.

"Have I sacraficed to the Landrover Gods lately?"

What Dave just said about incorrectly assembled pump, check that it IS correct as I have had one incorrectly assembled in the past. Apparently the diagram was wrong in the rebuild book IIRC 1 and 4 were back to front or something similar, AND the confusion arose because the rebuilder thought the engine concerned was a euro spec EGR/ EDC pump, which is not an australian released vehicle (thank goodness.) The injector lines were not interchangeable between pumps, if you had an EDC engine and swapped pumps, then the injector lines are not transferrable from EDC to our VE mechanical pumps you need the mechanical VE pump AND the lines to go with it.


JC

JC........... You look like you have hit the nail on the head !!!

I do have a EDC Engine fitted into a Ausie vehicle !!!! AND DID USE THE ORIGINAL LINES THAT CAME WITH THE ENGINE !!.......... Bugger me

Any one got some VE Lines that they have spare ??

Thanks a Million !!

Can I not use the ones I have as long as I know where they go ? can anyone tell me how they go ?

Originally Posted by justinc

What Dave just said about incorrectly assembled pump, check that it IS correct as I have had one incorrectly assembled in the past. Apparently the diagram was wrong in the rebuild book IIRC 1 and 4 were back to front or something similar, AND the confusion arose because the rebuilder thought the engine concerned was a euro spec EGR/ EDC pump, which is not an australian released vehicle (thank goodness.) The injector lines were not interchangeable between pumps, if you had an EDC engine and swapped pumps, then the injector lines are not transferrable from EDC to our VE mechanical pumps you need the mechanical VE pump AND the lines to go with it.


JC

providing you can get them to mount up to the correct position on the pump and the appropriate injector yes. you can try to bend them but be careful you can usually bend but not unbend them and you will need a brake line bender or you will crimp them.

using the same trick I suggested to gauge the coarse timing of the pump identify the injection sequence on the back of the pump and then see if you can match up the ports to the injectors in that order (1342 from drunken memory)