Thread: Water/methanol injection TD5

Originally Posted by 85 county

water to air inter-coolers, are good but have there place, tooling around over sand dunes is not the place

Originally Posted by bsperka

Water to air works best when there are heat spikes. Turbos in turbo diesels are always on boost so w2a doesn't work so well. Water will heat up in situations like you are talking about and be worse. It's not my coin, but been there with a mate's race engine. Although the w2a intercooler made a nice workshop ornament ....

you two are not permitted near an R series mack or my disco...

and bsperka, diesels are not always on boost. but they do hanle sustained periods of boost and higher combustion temps a lot better than most ricer engines...

also your logicof the water heating up and being worse is not all that accurte. the water will heat up and then cease to be effective at cooling the charge air so really your only in the boat of being no better off than you were to start with. once the water dumps temp again it begins to become effective.

check out the energy density of ir VS the energy density of water... now plumb the maths for the outlet temp of the turbo onto that and work out how long you have to crank the boost up before the water temp matches.

now stick the water through a heat exchanger to get rid of heat to atmosphere then reuse the water.

heres how the basic maths keeps that working.

a little bit of really hotcharge air heats up a bit of water, the water carries the heat away and then a radiator uses a lot of realy cool air to lower the temperature of the water and the water goes back to be reheated.

smart operators then punch the cooled charge air through a air-air intercooler before sticking it into the inlet manifold.

Even smarter operators fit water cooled turbos before all of that stuff.

psychotic ones do that to a tdi300 while telling rice boys who think 14psi is lots of boost "Dont talk to me about boost until you can pump your tyres up to road pressure off the turbo" before having daydreams bought to them by the numbers 3.9, 4,1 60, the words isuzu, compound and the letters b,d,p,s and i.

Water injection was used on this diesel.
It also used 6 bar of boost.
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Hi,
Thanks for the input of everybody, I was thinking more of just water to cool the air charge I am running and have run about 15 psi-24psi through the motor for a few years now. As for the temps i only have the nanaocom reading which is summer can get up to 60 C (in Manifold) and winter not much above 40C I did measure it once but not under to much load and was 130 C mark just after the turbo outlet again that was summer time the egt gets up to about 900 C before the turbo up hill flat out not very often I do that around town sits around 300- 400 C on my last map I wrote they are down to about 750 C funny more fueling but changed other parameters what a difference. Everybody is talking about the water heating up.....hello what does that big thing in front of the engine, I think i it is called a Radiator which i believe get rids of heat I think could be wrong. why wouldn't this work for the inter cooler ???? Sorry for the sarcasm but yes it would have some heat soak on the whole would be more efficient than air to air on slow long runs under power. There are ways around the heat soak.
Everybody has their own ideas but like Dave says the maths always come up trumps
Thanks
discotuner

Originally Posted by Rick122

I'll only be injecting at high EGT's, (in order to lower them).......

Look, it's pretty hard adding posts on here with my small screen mobile trying to convey in words what I'm thinking and I apologise if I've come across as being brash. Peace.

Mate don't start to doubt yourself. Everything you've written has seemed pretty clear to me. Have a go and let us know how it works out for you when driving in the conditions that you are aiming to tackle.

Originally Posted by Fast Freddie

Mate don't start to doubt yourself. Everything you've written has seemed pretty clear to me. Have a go and let us know how it works out for you when driving in the conditions that you are aiming to tackle.

Originally Posted by Rick122

I'll only be injecting at high EGT's, (in order to lower them), after working out what my current maximums are. This should prevent the need to carry lots of water.
Running methanol 50/50 with water is mainly used to increase performance, I'm more interested in the effects of water injection on lowering EGT's. If it doesn't work, it's only cost me a new shut-off valve, which i was going to buy anyway. Apart from that it's only going to cost me my time. I have the rest of the gear already.
I'm not an idiot, I'm not going to fit it without any safeguards. I've had good success before, with petrol cars only admittedly but why not try? I know all the things you mentioned will cure high EGT's and give more power to but I don't have that sort of money to spend at the moment and I'm about a million miles away from everything (well it seems like it anyway!)
Look, it's pretty hard adding posts on here with my small screen mobile trying to convey in words what I'm thinking and I apologise if I've come across as being brash. Peace.

These are my thoughts more for using just water to cool the charge. Not so much the methanol. If nothing is ever given a try then we will never advance...
discotuner

Big lo g post about the way i habe my.disco set up.that the phone killed.remind me to retype it latr.

So you have a w2a intercooler then a2a ? No chance of turbo lag there!!

Being on boost all the time is a generalisation, but getting 2.5l to push 2t isn't done without boost. So there is a longer boost cycle than for a performance petrol road car, which is spiky. Economy petrols are on turbo more as well. Think eco boost.

And the water doesn't just dump the heat in one pump cycle, so the temperature builds up. Hence its not as good. In the end, w2a performance is determined by the ambient temperature as the w2a has to dump the heat into the air to work. It's just using water to transfer the heat elsewhere and heating up itself as a result. So 30 degrees ambient becomes 50, then 60, then ...

W2a is useful if you have limited space, want to reduce lag, aren't on the noise a lot etc. Increased plumbing and complexity is required. 2 heat exchanges ( intercooler and radiator), some coolong fluid, a cooling fan, a pump (fixed or variable speed), perhaps some thermostatic switches so the fan and/ or pump isn't running all the time. A lot of complexity when a large a2a ic should do the trick and get rid of heat straight into the air.

Originally Posted by bsperka

So you have a w2a intercooler then a2a ? No chance of turbo lag there!!

Being on boost all the time is a generalisation, but getting 2.5l to push 2t isn't done without boost. So there is a longer boost cycle than for a performance petrol road car, which is spiky. Economy petrols are on turbo more as well. Think eco boost.

And the water doesn't just dump the heat in one pump cycle, so the temperature builds up. Hence its not as good. In the end, w2a performance is determined by the ambient temperature as the w2a has to dump the heat into the air to work. It's just using water to transfer the heat elsewhere and heating up itself as a result. So 30 degrees ambient becomes 50, then 60, then ...

W2a is useful if you have limited space, want to reduce lag, aren't on the noise a lot etc. Increased plumbing and complexity is required. 2 heat exchanges ( intercooler and radiator), some coolong fluid, a cooling fan, a pump (fixed or variable speed), perhaps some thermostatic switches so the fan and/ or pump isn't running all the time. A lot of complexity when a large a2a ic should do the trick and get rid of heat straight into the air.

Yes that's a very good explanation and makes a lot of sense to the heat build up thanks