Thread: Brakes failed !

I’m sorry V8ian but that is ridiculous
You are encouraging a really dangerous approach
I’m glad my family doesn’t drive anywhere near the same area.

Originally Posted by justinc

.........
I So cannot wait for licenced operators ONLY being allowed to work on brakes and other safety systems. Enforceable by LAW.

🤬🤬🤬🤬

While I can see and appreciate where you are coming from, this approach seriously disadvantages anyone who lives out of town, and the accident statistics do not support it. Only a tiny proportion of accidents have vehicle defects as a major factor, and only a vanishingly small proportion of these are attributable to repairs by an unlicenced operator. Most are attributable to neglect, and raising the cost and difficulty of repairs will only result in more repairs not being done, which will outweigh the small number that will be done properly rather than badly.

I should perhaps point out that while not a licenced repairer, I have been repairing brakes on my own vehicles for over sixty years, and have been driving longer than this. In this time I have never encountered brake failure (nearest was sudden degraded brakes on the County due to a cracked booster), perhaps because being very familiar with how the brakes work on all my vehicles I can spot and fix potential issues before they become a safety issue.

Originally Posted by surfingooner

...so I replaced it with an old one I had from when I broker the diff and replaced the axle. I didn't do a bleed after.

Originally Posted by surfingooner

Not going to go into the story of the recovery service, the bad attitude of the recovery driver after waiting 3 hours, just to say in the end, I said I didn't want his help with attitude like that and so I drove home in low range, used the box, and kept pulling over when anyone was coming near. All went without event and the only plus is this means the Discovery has never failed to get me home yet.

I'll be honest I'm more concerned about the lack of brake bleeding after changing a hydraulic brake part than the driving home after brake failure. Having read your later comments I agree, it's possible to do without further incident even while not being advisable/encouraged to do so...

Originally Posted by surfingooner

Part of getting ready I changed my pads all round, and my rear left brakes cylinder was leaking...

Do you perhaps mean brake caliper? Wheel cylinders are used on hydraulic drum brakes where the D2 has hydraulic disc brakes.

Originally Posted by surfingooner

Basically when I push my pedal, it goes all the way to the floor and doesn't stop the car, even when I pump it. I am not good with brakes, so today I changed the rear brake cylinder over to to the other spare I had, I think there was evidence of leaking, there was some thick dark mud in the wheel well, not like that the other side.

I have started trying to bleed the brakes too, started off with front left, and cannot even get any fluid to come out of it when using Nanocom or pumping the pedal. I tried the previously dodgy rear left after and got fluid coming out of that.

It's likely that your master cylinder has failed. Read through Two Brake callipers not bleeding the entire brake pedal stroke - faulty ABS units? for some related discussion - it also includes details on the full bleed process - you will need a compatible diagnostic device (e.g. Nanocom, etc.) and helper for this. Note that the master cylinder issue can be hard to diagnose, from my experience with two units failing the effects of the failures were different both times and for both the issue was intermittent. It's not particularly hard to change the master cylinder - from memory, use a crows foot/flange nut spanner to undo the two hydraulic lines, two nuts that secure it to the booster, then pull out and swap the new one in. Now for the hard bit, the full black bleed process takes significant time and will require an assistant to help you along with the previously mentioned diagnostic equipment - I found that it needed to be done twice before the brakes were back up to expected performance. And sadly, the replacement cylinders aren't cheap though - genuine is around $400.00ish if I remember right, pattern is a fraction of that but again, brakes, is it worth skimping out?
It's also quite possible that the second hand brake caliper you fitted may also have an issue. How long had it been sitting around for unused? Given it's sitting with no fluid inside there could be corrosion and then with the piston not moving this could seize I place etc. Do you know for sure it had no issues when last used? I'd suggest at a minimum stripping and rebuilding - at this point should you then consider also doing the other rear side too to keep it balanced and perhaps the front calipers?
However I suggest if you have no luck then you rather follow your instinct here and get the professional out to assist you - brakes are just way too important and their failure can cost you far more than the price of the tow and professional mechanical services...

Originally Posted by justinc

I So cannot wait for licenced operators ONLY being allowed to work on brakes and other safety systems. Enforceable by LAW.

Yep, that's what we need, more regulation. It's already illegal for me to swap a GPO, or work on my A/C. Now you want to make it illegal for me to work on my car? Thankfully the MTA is far weaker than the ETU, so we won't be seeing that any time soon.

Originally Posted by justinc

Why are you risking the lives of yourself, your family and other road users??? 🤬🤬🤬 I make no apologies for calling you an arrogant fool for driving that vehicle on a public road in that state.
I So cannot wait for licenced operators ONLY being allowed to work on brakes and other safety systems. Enforceable by LAW.

🤬🤬🤬🤬

Yes mate, that's what we need, more bull**** regulations. How about bringing back a fellow to walk in front of the car waving a red flag. That will ipmrove safety no end. Road deaths willgo to zero.

Originally Posted by Bohica

Yes mate, that's what we need, more bull**** regulations. How about bringing back a fellow to walk in front of the car waving a red flag. That will ipmrove safety no end. Road deaths willgo to zero.

IF that were to happen I envisage a heap of blokes with red flags Squished on the roads

Thanks you all for the posts, positive and not so positive. I am not going to justify it anymore, but I want to add that I sacrifice a great deal so that my kids go to a paid school (hence I do all the work on the car myself) and my kids have sadly had issues of being bullied by the 'rich kids', ***** full of self-entitlement, they turn up in the new D4's and X5's. I was not going to add to their problems and give these kids an excuse to give them **** about their poor dad's old car being stuck in the car park broken down. Over my dead body. Kids can be pretty nasty at times.

I have booked my car to go to a specialist on Monday, I have dipped my toe in these waters, and don't fancy a swim, and the comments here have helped me reach this decision so thank you. In my 8 years, I have changed the exhaust manifold, engine mounts, rear axle, alternator, viscous fan, hoses, brake rotors and pads, bled the brakes, changed various sensors, done the Amigo's fix, fitted EGT and boost gauge, EGR delete, modified the exhaust, changed the turbo core, injector loom, changed the shock absorbers, two hubs, fitted new airbags on SLS, window motors, I could go on, but the point is that by using RAVE, this forum, and Youtube, everything done to this point was successful. I have become pretty useful, and I am very proud that my car has never not got me to where I was going, Land Rovers owners take a lot of **** about reliability. I have never had to go a registered garage other then the HD torque converter (who bullsed up re-fitting my gearbox and left me with a leak). I take huge pride and care in servicing my car, it is now unique to how I want it, there are people in this forum who have driven in it and they have all said, how 'tight' it is and what a great example of a D2a. It is loved, and I don't want a bunch of modern souless plastic. Point being, this is pretty impressive without professional intervention, and yes I might have taken it too far here. I stand to be corrected, but at this point I don't know what has caused the problem, it has been over a month since I changed the caliper and the pads, so I don't know what has caused the problem now.

Yes I did test the caliper before swapping it over, I cleaned it up and tested it before putting the pads back in, it is fully functioning. During the past 24 hours I have studied RAVE, watched numerous youtube clips on master cylinders, re-building them and bleeding brakes, and reading posts on this forum.

So whilst I do not trust garages, on this occasion I do believe this is the most sensible course of action, get it professionally fixed and tested and give me (and some members on this forum) peace of mind.

There have been some great and passionate and provocative posts here, this is a forum to share our love, knowledge and wisdom on LR ownership, it is a fantastic forum, but where is there a point of what we can and cannot do, should not do etc. Because if I need to do absolutely anything to my D2, there will be a post here on how to do it. We did that.

Originally Posted by SPROVER

If I was able to leave my suburb I would of come around to give you a hand. I have family in warrandyte as well. Definitely sounds like you have air in the system. I just changed my brake master cylinder on the weekend as the original one was leaking. Took awhile to get the air out of the system. It took a bit to do the rears but I got there in the end.
What are you using to bleed the brakes?

Because you have pumped an old master cylinder through its full travel and it has likely had scale and debris beyond the normal brake pedal travel when the brakes were working you have likely damaged the master cylinder seal causing fluid to leak past this seal and causing the pedal to push to the floor. As others have already said brakes are a critical safely system and should not be worked on if you are unsure of what you are doing. You will likely need all new components seals and cylinders so get it done by an expert!