Planned Upgrade of Stock Standard TD5

He's been getting just 4 years out of the red add-on airlift air springs, that's why he switched to this ridiculous setup :)
He's actually using the OEM air springs with airlift manual controls IIRC. And it's mainly for having soft springs when the car is not loaded, being able to load a ton inside and having the air springs somehow protected.

Nevertheless I'm pretty sure such system could work well with the stock automatic controls if the coils springs were soft (ie. short while compressed) enough that even an empty car would still need some pressure inside the air springs to reach the standard height.

Bit a big, and I mean BIG Bullet, ordered a VNT. Have been trying over the last week or so to get one of Jose's one but no replys, and strongly considered the Turbo Technic twins. one eye is now an inducer and the other a exducer trying to come to grips with the info available.

This has taken me well over budget now but for a vehicle which is going to basically owe me the cost of the parts +$1400 will still be less than a stock D2a TD5 at current prices. So deciding on the purchase of a VNT and then thought of the manifold to go with it and it appeared only Alisport were in the hunt and these were the basically the same price of the VNT. So for Roughly 1700 GBP I would have a manifold and a VNT and then the cost of a tune


On one forum saw a most beautiful fabricated manifold with a billet collector and followed the link to Darkside Developments, this was listed at roughly the same prices as the Alisport ones @ 800 GBP. Got in contact with them regarding the possibility of VNT to go with it, they sell only the manifold or a kit period.



The kit at 1900 GBP was pricier than I expected but included a whole lot of goodies such as

Fabrication Mafia - Land Rover Defender / Discovery TD5 GTB2260VK Turbo Kit

Stainless Tubular Exhaust Manifold With Billet Collector
2.5” Stainless Downpipe with Stainless Flexi and Dual Fitment Flange
Exhaust Manifold Gasket
Downpipe Gasket
Turbo to Manifold Gasket
Darkside Oil Return Line
Oil Return Gasket
Silicone Turbo Inlet Pipe Connector Hose
Aluminum Intake Pipe
MAF Sensor Silicone
Stainless T-Bolt Clamps
All other nuts and bolts required for fitment

Brand New Melett Turbocharger with MFS Billet Compressor Wheel & Actuator Lever Conversion
Brand New Vacuum Actuator
Laser Cut and CNC Folded Stainless Actuator Bracket

Fabrication Mafia - Land Rover Defender TD5 GTB2260VK Turbo Kit

Then go an email about a 10% sale for black friday and down it came to 1710 GBP, well that saving is a Tune by Jose! Then the cost of freight, 44GBP to Melbourne, really was the clincher.

So still waiting on Paddocks to send me a whole lot of goods such as the Serck, nigh on two months now.... Doubt they will be installed by Christmas New Years now.

The stainless manifold won't work as well as they crack, I run allisport manifold and it's worth the money and stood the test of time

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RRT

Bit a big, and I mean BIG Bullet, ordered a VNT. Have been trying over the last week or so to get one of Jose's one but no replys, and strongly considered the Turbo Technic twins. one eye is now an inducer and the other a exducer trying to come to grips with the info available.

This has taken me well over budget now but for a vehicle which is going to basically owe me the cost of the parts +$1400 will still be less than a stock D2a TD5 at current prices. So deciding on the purchase of a VNT and then thought of the manifold to go with it and it appeared only Alisport were in the hunt and these were the basically the same price of the VNT. So for Roughly 1700 GBP I would have a manifold and a VNT and then the cost of a tune


On one forum saw a most beautiful fabricated manifold with a billet collector and followed the link to Darkside Developments, this was listed at roughly the same prices as the Alisport ones @ 800 GBP. Got in contact with them regarding the possibility of VNT to go with it, they sell only the manifold or a kit period.



The kit at 1900 GBP was pricier than I expected but included a whole lot of goodies such as

Fabrication Mafia - Land Rover Defender / Discovery TD5 GTB2260VK Turbo Kit

Stainless Tubular Exhaust Manifold With Billet Collector
2.5” Stainless Downpipe with Stainless Flexi and Dual Fitment Flange
Exhaust Manifold Gasket
Downpipe Gasket
Turbo to Manifold Gasket
Darkside Oil Return Line
Oil Return Gasket
Silicone Turbo Inlet Pipe Connector Hose
Aluminum Intake Pipe
MAF Sensor Silicone
Stainless T-Bolt Clamps
All other nuts and bolts required for fitment

Brand New Melett Turbocharger with MFS Billet Compressor Wheel & Actuator Lever Conversion
Brand New Vacuum Actuator
Laser Cut and CNC Folded Stainless Actuator Bracket

Fabrication Mafia - Land Rover Defender TD5 GTB2260VK Turbo Kit

Then go an email about a 10% sale for black friday and down it came to 1710 GBP, well that saving is a Tune by Jose! Then the cost of freight, 44GBP to Melbourne, really was the clincher.

So still waiting on Paddocks to send me a whole lot of goods such as the Serck, nigh on two months now.... Doubt they will be installed by Christmas New Years now.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kaaaiju

The stainless manifold won't work as well as they crack, I run allisport manifold and it's worth the money and stood the test of time

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Thanks Kaaiju this was certainly a consideration, the advantages of SS versus cast and vice versa.


Saw plenty of pictures of cracked TD5 SS manifolds for sure. Most seemed to be either where 2 and 4 pipes were welded into the 5 and 1 pipes or the 3 into the turbo flange, very complex weld it would appear.



Firstly I am going to be putting in a EGT monitor and so am not expecting to take this to 1600 C even as a spike!


Second, the billet, would not consider one without it, racing almost invariably use a billet even with the extra weight it involves.


Third, the actual material used, countless qualities of stainless steel, some a lot better than others.





Hmmm so the statement that they wont work as well is wildly erroneous on one important count and wildly used against SS manifolds, SS actually has some distinct benefits for exhausts and hence their use and the desire to use SS as most of these pertain to heat management which in a TD5 are pretty important!





The main point is that SS does not crack per se. Stress any material and it will crack just ask General Dynamics about the F1-11 falling out the sky (have a lot of knowledge of this and how ARL down here in Melbourne cured this). Bends put into stiff materials, add heat and vibrations and these will increase the likelihood of this no doubt and hence the choice of a manifold with minimal bends.


Now where the trust is really placed when getting a SS if the material and design is right, the weld. Suppose I am putting my trust in DS being able to weld the material properly....

Allisport tried to make ss exhaust work for an while couldn't stop it cracking so they made their cast manifold , had it up to 850c egt and hasn't warped

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RRT

Thanks Kaaiju this was certainly a consideration, the advantages of SS versus cast and vice versa.


Saw plenty of pictures of cracked TD5 SS manifolds for sure. Most seemed to be either where 2 and 4 pipes were welded into the 5 and 1 pipes or the 3 into the turbo flange, very complex weld it would appear.



Firstly I am going to be putting in a EGT monitor and so am not expecting to take this to 1600 C even as a spike!


Second, the billet, would not consider one without it, racing almost invariably use a billet even with the extra weight it involves.


Third, the actual material used, countless qualities of stainless steel, some a lot better than others.





Hmmm so the statement that they wont work as well is wildly erroneous on one important count and wildly used against SS manifolds, SS actually has some distinct benefits for exhausts and hence their use and the desire to use SS as most of these pertain to heat management which in a TD5 are pretty important!





The main point is that SS does not crack per se. Stress any material and it will crack just ask General Dynamics about the F1-11 falling out the sky (have a lot of knowledge of this and how ARL down here in Melbourne cured this). Bends put into stiff materials, add heat and vibrations and these will increase the likelihood of this no doubt and hence the choice of a manifold with minimal bends.


Now where the trust is really placed when getting a SS if the material and design is right, the weld. Suppose I am putting my trust in DS being able to weld the material properly....

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kaaaiju

Allisport tried to make ss exhaust work for an while couldn't stop it cracking so they made their cast manifold , had it up to 850c egt and hasn't warped

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As with the cracks of on this one

TD5 Exhaust Manifold from China

The joining of the collection pipes on this one and all the other SS manifolds I have seen are the root problem, it is not the SS that cracks it is the welds from what I ascertain. one of the design features I like on the DS manifold are they are all basically ring welds rather than complex ellipsoid welds into tight places. Bet they are each welded as separate tubes and then assembled which would be a hell of a lot easier to ensure the patentcy of the weld at each stage of the assembly.


My choice which will be inspired or the have the manifold expired is based purely on the fact that this particular manifold was the only one I have seen to date for a TD5 which is a tubular design into a billet collector rather than the complex welding involved with the chinese manifolds trying to copy the design of the cast manifold populating ebay. I take your point that Allisport did not succeed with a SS manifold but did they use a billet or make a variation of the cast iron manifold, my bet is the variation of the cast iron style.

I would also add that the Chinese manifolds do not show the coffee colouring of the 316 SS (not the best I understand, but more than close enough) on either side of the welds of the DS SS manifold.

At the end of the day I am after low down torque and if the tubular design do as they meant to and spool quicker, it will go a long way to ensure I reach my 400 NM at 2000 rpm combined with the VNT.



Maybe my little knowledge will be an expensive thing but do actually agree with you that the SS manifolds on the market (which copy the cast style) for $200 odd and WILL CRACK. Here's hoping mine wont!!

Let us know if it does, and how the vnt goes

I am looking to get an vgt turbo that hopefully get me up to 220hp 500nm around there

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RRT

As with the cracks of on this one

TD5 Exhaust Manifold from China

The joining of the collection pipes on this one and all the other SS manifolds I have seen are the root problem, it is not the SS that cracks it is the welds from what I ascertain. one of the design features I like on the DS manifold are they are all basically ring welds rather than complex ellipsoid welds into tight places. Bet they are each welded as separate tubes and then assembled which would be a hell of a lot easier to ensure the patentcy of the weld at each stage of the assembly.


My choice which will be inspired or the have the manifold expired is based purely on the fact that this particular manifold was the only one I have seen to date for a TD5 which is a tubular design into a billet collector rather than the complex welding involved with the chinese manifolds trying to copy the design of the cast manifold populating ebay. I take your point that Allisport did not succeed with a SS manifold but did they use a billet or make a variation of the cast iron manifold, my bet is the variation of the cast iron style.

I would also add that the Chinese manifolds do not show the coffee colouring of the 316 SS (not the best I understand, but more than close enough) on either side of the welds of the DS SS manifold.

At the end of the day I am after low down torque and if the tubular design do as they meant to and spool quicker, it will go a long way to ensure I reach my 400 NM at 2000 rpm combined with the VNT.



Maybe my little knowledge will be an expensive thing but do actually agree with you that the SS manifolds on the market (which copy the cast style) for $200 odd and WILL CRACK. Here's hoping mine wont!!

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I have done lots of Mods to mine over the years have and still owned it since 1999 longest i have kept any car main items done,
changed diff ratios to suit 33" tyres, 2",
Detroit locker in rear upgraded axles as broke one took awhile to tell that i had done one was not until i did a brake pad change and wheel was free spinning.
ABT in transfer case great in the wet taking off from lights (I have a lead foot),
electric Transfer locking motor.
True track in front diff and ashcroft CV's after breaking 2 CV's,
Hydraulic winch with hydraulic pump off back of transfer case, 80ltrs/min at 1800RPM and 200 bar pressure (3000 PSI ) had to strengthen mounts for winch.
Changed out the flexible exhaust pipe as this narrows down and removed the 1st muffler made it easier to mount hydraulic tank for winch.
Larger inter-cooler,
Fitted a EGT gauge and temp guage for Auto trans (Redarc)
Bruce davis chip
Turbo from Jose and Boost box, fitted a turbo smart valve and boost at peaks at 26 psi only recently adjusted it up but made a difference to EGT's,
Upgraded torque converter,
Overhauled my auto trans changed one of the springs in the valve body, adjusted the stack heights of clutch packs and fitted internals out of a BMW trans (sprag clutches stronger),
added another oil cooler for trans,
Modified wiring 17 odd years ago inside ABS brake modulator to do away with 3 amego's only show up with speed sensor faults now and have not seen them for 5 years now
and a few other Mods over the years

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RRT

BHave been trying over the last week or so to get one of Jose's one but no replys,

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It's well established that due to his busy schedule he's hard to contact. He also prioritises current and past clients over new ones so you'll be waiting until he's free before a response is received. A reply within a week would be considered very very fast for him.
Further he's outlined numerous times that he does not currently supply his VNTs to Australia due to his hands on setup policy. Hybrids and tunes only from him for Australian customers (aside from four that he has previously supplied with).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RRT

On one forum saw a most beautiful fabricated manifold with a billet collector and followed the link to Darkside Developments, this was listed at roughly the same prices as the Alisport ones @ 800 GBP.

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That might look beautiful but it won't once it's cracked, and I think you'll have fun with the warranty from abroad. I've yet to read any positive longer term success stories from Darkside... And while your points about the differences with the Darkside unit verses may of the other stainless steel manifolds are true, it's still not evidence of any proven reliability of the product. It's a big expensive gamble.
It also requires a bunch of other custom items (to to the altered turbocharger location) further complicating the installation and dealing with any future part requirements. This might also cause installation complications due to fouling on the Disco components.

Similarly with their turbo charger - not a unit that others have found successful.
And now you'll have to find a tuner willing to tune for it. Common units like the TurboTechnics offerings have their benefits in that the tuners have vast experience in how to properly cater for them.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RRT

this was listed at roughly the same prices as the Alisport ones @ 800 GBP.

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Not the same price, neither roughly or otherwise - the Alisport manifold is only GBP 500.00 - see Performance exhaust manifold for TD5 Defender and Discovery - AlliSport - and that's at least for a unit that'l last.
If you shop around you can source it even cheaper from Best of Land at TD5 Performance exhaust manifold - Best Of Land for only around Euro 510.00 delivered to Australia!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RRT

Firstly I am going to be putting in a EGT monitor and so am not expecting to take this to 1600 C even as a spike!

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I'd suggest you keep it well below that. From 750*C onwards your melting you're internals.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by twr7cx

It's well established that due to his busy schedule he's hard to contact. He also prioritises current and past clients over new ones so you'll be waiting until he's free before a response is received. A reply within a week would be considered very very fast for him.
Further he's outlined numerous times that he does not currently supply his VNTs to Australia due to his hands on setup policy. Hybrids and tunes only from him for Australian customers (aside from four that he has previously supplied with).


That might look beautiful but it won't once it's cracked, and I think you'll have fun with the warranty from abroad. I've yet to read any positive longer term success stories from Darkside... And while your points about the differences with the Darkside unit verses may of the other stainless steel manifolds are true, it's still not evidence of any proven reliability of the product. It's a big expensive gamble.
It also requires a bunch of other custom items (to to the altered turbocharger location) further complicating the installation and dealing with any future part requirements. This might also cause installation complications due to fouling on the Disco components.

Similarly with their turbo charger - not a unit that others have found successful.
And now you'll have to find a tuner willing to tune for it. Common units like the TurboTechnics offerings have their benefits in that the tuners have vast experience in how to properly cater for them.


Not the same price, neither roughly or otherwise - the Alisport manifold is only GBP 500.00 - see Performance exhaust manifold for TD5 Defender and Discovery - AlliSport - and that's at least for a unit that'l last.
If you shop around you can source it even cheaper from Best of Land at TD5 Performance exhaust manifold - Best Of Land for only around Euro 510.00 delivered to Australia!


I'd suggest you keep it well below that. From 750*C onwards your melting you're internals.

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All points well made and taken, I would firstly make the point, it it not only manifold and turbo but also down pipe and straight through exhaust with a couple of other bits thrown in.

As to Darkside Developments have read as much as I can and certainly there are detractors - there are for any product, ask me about about Apple and yourself about Ashcroft LSD LOL Did get one inadvertently but was actually on the way to taking your advice re the LSD and had the price not been so good, was going there. Post lockdown has been busy and had not been able to get out to EPping to get one. Even took your advice to bit the bullet and get the VNT!!!

Regarding the turbo, I know Jose has done maps for them,
which in my case a GTB2260VK

After too much reading and thinking and trying to find out what the specs on each of the VNT Turbo's were, I do note that the size was the first issue, from what I can gather, the current crop - which are unlikely to be 3rd Gen GTB spec

The Evolution of Garrett VNT™ Turbocharger - Garrett Motion - are to my understanding close to standard at 2056 rather than 2260. I am probably wrong of course, there is a lot of cards being played close to the chest in this market.

when offered the brother in laws one from a VW did research and it appeared that most of the issues around these was initial spool time / lag which is why I went looking for tubular / stove pipe manifolds in the first place, free turbo just need a manifold and to get the turbo work in the Land Rover way, this would appear to be the biggest problem. Am sure there are many out there wanting it to fail so they can say I told you so, this is what Ebay is for isn't it, getting rid of mistakes? IF it is the manifold, then it as you note, it is an alisport cost to rectify, if turbo, change size and use the actuators, if both, EBAY lol.

My welder friend is confident looking at the welds the product will last, couldn't believe the Chinese ones and the way the welds come to a point, as he said it is not the material it is the welds that fail. For what its worth, the expansion coefficient of SS is a lot closer to Aluminium than iron.

Am I taking a chance? I and all you others on this forum have a Discovery 2 which when released was lambasted due to the electronics and you cant fix it and it wont last and many still ridicule SLS and ACE etc. yet I want to take my SLS suspended and ACE'd D2 all around Australia and up and down dale for the next 15 years or so... For mine well worth it and one I have gone into eyes wide open, I may be the biggest sucker of us all, SS exhaust, 2260 turbo and a SLS and ACE D2. Actually I think we drive D2's just to prove others wrong!!!!