Thread: FAT or FAT32 for Nanocom EVO?

Hi applemac

I'm surprised you were able to get an 8gb card formatted to straight FAT. From memory it has a 4gb upper limit.

IMO Blackbox make some very good diagnostic gear but documentation and web site design are not their forte. The information is all there but could be much more clearly presented.

The firmware update to allow SD Cards above 2gb occurred a while back.

Cheers

Steve

Originally Posted by Rok_Dr

Hi applemac

I'm surprised you were able to get an 8gb card formatted to straight FAT. From memory it has a 4gb upper limit.

IMO Blackbox make some very good diagnostic gear but documentation and web site design are not their forte. The information is all there but could be much more clearly presented.

The firmware update to allow SD Cards above 2gb occurred a while back.

Cheers

Steve

Maybe because I use a MAC, I was able to format it.

I agree, their documentation doesn't seem to be their forte.
It's a petty, good communication is a very important part of any business.

Originally Posted by applemac

Go figure.....!!!! The manual specifically says to format the SD Card in FAT not FAT 32 or MTFS.

There seems to be a mix up in the Manual.

Based on the manual you posted, you are using an old version of the documentation: V1.2.1a. You can't really blame BBS for users not checking for updated docs. The current User Manual (v1.3) is very significantly improved over the one you've been referring to. Just as with firmware updates, you need to keep on top of the documentation updates - information changes and the latest version is always the one you need to refer to.

Originally Posted by applemac

Maybe because I use a MAC, I was able to format it.

Because you are a Mac user you have formatted the card to FAT32 Disk Utility will tell you "MS-DOS (FAT)" but will format to the most suitable file format for the size of the card. Anything above 2Gb is automatically formatted as FAT32 because FAT file system only supports a maximum card size of 2Gb.

If you want to use cards bigger than 2gb get the SDFormatter utility. I've posted into other threads what settings are needed to format the card in a way that the Nanocom will reliably read and write.

Nanocom Evolution SD Card not reading

Using SDFormatter and enabling the "Logical Address Adjustment" setting is the only reliable way I have found to format a sdcard. Using Disk Utility on Mac is guaranteed to cause problems.

I've had trouble getting the SDFormatter to recognise the card in the internal reader on a MacBook. The solution is a bit ugly - you need to run the application from terminal with root permissions:

Fire up terminal, ( Applications > Utilities > Terminal) and assuming you have SDFormatter in the Applications folder type or copy and paste:

Code:

sudo /Applications/SDFormatter.app/Contents/MacOS/SDFormatter

then type your admin password at the password prompt. The app will open with sufficent privileges to access the card reader.

The way standard OS disk utilities (for both Mac and Windoze) format the cards is non-optimal and you are far more likely to experience problems if you do it this way.


cheers
Paul

Originally Posted by OffTrack

Based on the manual you posted, you are using an old version of the documentation: V1.2.1a. You can't really blame BBS for users not checking for updated docs. The current User Manual (v1.3) is very significantly improved over the one you've been referring to. Just as with firmware updates, you need to keep on top of the documentation updates - information changes and the latest version is always the one you need to refer to.

cheers
Paul

Thank you for the information on how to format the card. Wish BBS was that helpful and clear themselves in their manuals.
I received the EVO about a week ago and I do have the latest version as well, but in terms of the formatting of SD Cards, the information is very poor, confusing and they admit not to know much about it and relying on users for possible solutions. This is laughable because the product they sell is software based and relies on a SD Card to achieve full functionality.

Quote - Page 2:
"SD Cards up to 8MB (it should be 8 GB..OK, it's a typo, I understand...!!!) SDHC can be used with Nanocom Evolution. Please ensure that SD card is formatted correctly before use. (wish they gave better instructions on how to do it....), Further information is available in the SD card section below. (Use Only FAT not FAT32 or NTFS format)."
They refer to Page 13.

If an 8GB card can't be formatted in FAT and or the formatting is automatically defaulted to FAT32, there clearly is a lack of information on their behalf.

Quote - page 13
"Other Functions of the Nanocom Evolution
• SD CARD The Nanocom Evolution supports SD or SDHC cards up to 8GB for storing diagnostic files or maps for the TD5. We recommend using a High Quality SD or SDHC card especially when storing MAP files for the TD5 with the intention of remapping the ECU. Issues have been highlighted on several occasions now which have been down to the SD card not storing the information correctly.
In the Important Notes section of this guide it refers to ways of formatting the SD card when using it for mapping an ECU. While we have not used this method ourselves we do rely on other customers with working knowledge of to offer information. No liability claims can be made against either Blackbox Solutions or any other customer offering possible solutions to issues with 3rd Party equipment. All work is undertaken at the owners risk.
This information from one of our beta testers may prove useful in the process: ......etc.etc."

Quite honestly between the two quotes relating to SD Cards available through their Manual, you're left wondering...WHAT THAAAA.

Page 2
First they say that cards up to 8GB can be used. But wait,.....they have to be formatted in FAT, not FAT32 or NTFS. HUMMMMM,......where is the rest of the information regarding SD cards larger then 2GB not being able to be formatted in FAT, as you pointed out. If you are able to format them in FAT, where is the information to do it ? So that looks like it rules out the reliable use of anything larger then 2GB.....or doesn't it......I'm confused and I'm sure lots of people will as well.

Page 13
It says "in the important notes section, etc.", important.......that reassuring....considering the lack of information.

Next: we do rely on other customers with working knowledge of to offer information
Great, so if I want to know what SD Cards and how to format them properly to use with the device I'll just go to AULRO, the company I bought the product from doesn't even know......!!!!...
It's a great idea for a business, lets design a product, never mind fine details of it's functionality. If the consumer wants to know more, they can register in forums and figure it out by themselves.

Also "No liability claims can be made against either Blackbox Solutions or any other customer offering possible solutions to issues with 3rd Party equipment. All work is undertaken at the owners risk."

Great, that is definitely the ideal type of business....!!!!....if an ECU turns into a brick because the wrong formatting caused a problem (Would that be possible ?), no worries, just get another one. they are "CHEAP" anyway.

They should be supplying the SD Cards properly formatted when you buy the unit, but I guess they don't even trust themselves doing it......

Thanks again Paul.

It seems you don't appreciate the history of the Nanocom nor the efforts BBS have made to save it from oblivion.

The Nanocom was originally developed by an Italian LR enthusiast - mainly by reverse engineering one of BBS's Rovacom//Faultmate systems. Mattias released the EVO around 2009 and was apparently swamped by orders and support requests and development basically ceased because he could cope with the workload. The documentation that existed was sketchy and was very obviously written by someone who's first language was not English. At the beginning of 2011 BBS took over the production, sales and support of the Nanocom. As I understand it Mattias was employed as a developer. The EVO was off the market for a large chunk of 2011 while BBS redesigned the package into something that was better suited to mass production.

Since that time Colin and BBS have put a huge amount of work into improving the firmware, adding functionality and squashing bugs. It wasn't until late 2012 that the bulk of the firmware improvements had been fixed to a point where the software is getting close to bug free. I think most users have considered getting the firmware bugs sorted as being of far greater importance than having polished documentation. There have been something like 4-5 years of Nanocom production where that documentation (or even more primitive versions) plus forum support has been more that adequate for most users to work out how to turn the unit it on, navigate the features and get down to the business of diagnosing problems.

That said BBS seem to have been putting quite a bit of effort into sorting out the documentation over the past 6-12 months and it is a vast improvement over what existed before. I actually welcome the fact that BBS are taking on board the knowledge that has been gained by users on forums like AULRO over the past few years and incorporating that into the documentation. You'll have to also factor in that no diagnostic tool company will supply detailed information on how to use the diagnostic functions. If you need step by step instructions on how each function is used you should keep your eye out for a used Testbook T4 System or an IDS setup for newer LR's and be prepared to part with upwards of $5-6000.

To get back to the cards, I did some beta testing for the firmware update that changed the .map upload process, and suggested the use of the SDFormatter software. I have had zero issues with map uploads using FAT32 providing the "Logical Address Adjustment" option is selected when formatting the card. The problem has never been with the 8GB cards or FAT32 file system, but the way that Windows and Mac disk utilities format the SDCards.

My theory is that card manufacturers format using the "Logical Address Adjustment" option to ensure the cards are compatible with the maximum number of devices. This is why cards work fine until they are reformatted.

cheers
Paul

Originally Posted by OffTrack

It seems you don't appreciate the history of the Nanocom nor the efforts BBS have made to save it from oblivion.

The Nanocom was originally developed by an Italian LR enthusiast - mainly by reverse engineering one of BBS's Rovacom//Faultmate systems. Mattias released the EVO around 2009 and was apparently swamped by orders and support requests and development basically ceased because he could cope with the workload. The documentation that existed was sketchy and was very obviously written by someone who's first language was not English. At the beginning of 2011 BBS took over the production, sales and support of the Nanocom. As I understand it Mattias was employed as a developer. The EVO was off the market for a large chunk of 2011 while BBS redesigned the package into something that was better suited to mass production.

Since that time Colin and BBS have put a huge amount of work into improving the firmware, adding functionality and squashing bugs. It wasn't until late 2012 that the bulk of the firmware improvements had been fixed to a point where the software is getting close to bug free. I think most users have considered getting the firmware bugs sorted as being of far greater importance than having polished documentation. There have been something like 4-5 years of Nanocom production where that documentation (or even more primitive versions) plus forum support has been more that adequate for most users to work out how to turn the unit it on, navigate the features and get down to the business of diagnosing problems.

That said BBS seem to have been putting quite a bit of effort into sorting out the documentation over the past 6-12 months and it is a vast improvement over what existed before. I actually welcome the fact that BBS are taking on board the knowledge that has been gained by users on forums like AULRO over the past few years and incorporating that into the documentation. You'll have to also factor in that no diagnostic tool company will supply detailed information on how to use the diagnostic functions. If you need step by step instructions on how each function is used you should keep your eye out for a used Testbook T4 System or an IDS setup for newer LR's and be prepared to part with upwards of $5-6000.

To get back to the cards, I did some beta testing for the firmware update that changed the .map upload process, and suggested the use of the SDFormatter software. I have had zero issues with map uploads using FAT32 providing the "Logical Address Adjustment" option is selected when formatting the card. The problem has never been with the 8GB cards or FAT32 file system, but the way that Windows and Mac disk utilities format the SDCards.

My theory is that card manufacturers format using the "Logical Address Adjustment" option to ensure the cards are compatible with the maximum number of devices. This is why cards work fine until they are reformatted.

cheers
Paul

The answer is no. I couldn't care less about the history of Nanocom, it's not my concern as a consumer.

The fact is Nanocom is a FOR PROFIT COMPANY. They sell diagnostic equipment.
If you think 300 pounds is a bargain, think again. I can buy a lousy camera at a corner shop with software that is a lot more involved and it recognizes the SD cards straight out of the box.

SD cards are standard in may, many products out there in the market and all of them figured out how to produce their units to be faultless before they start selling them. It's no point blaming it on Windows or Mac.

Listening to consumers is very good, I agree, but in this case it seems they simply relying in the community to solve problems because they haven't got a clue.

I haven't had problems so far and I used an SD card formatted with a Mac (Disc Utility) and another with the SDFormatter App, but what concerns me is that the information available is unclear and raises issues of possible problems that can cause $$$$$ of damage to equipment (ECU).
This is obvious in the Manual.

This is a Black Cloud hovering over Black Box Solutions.

This could be a good product, but right now it's an unfinished toy that you can't rely on if you need to use the SD Card.

Originally Posted by applemac

The answer is no. I couldn't care less about the history of Nanocom, it's not my concern as a consumer.

The fact is Nanocom is a FOR PROFIT COMPANY. They sell diagnostic equipment.
If you think 300 pounds is a bargain, think again. I can buy a lousy camera at a corner shop with software that is a lot more involved and it recognizes the SD cards straight out of the box.

SD cards are standard in may, many products out there in the market and all of them figured out how to produce their units to be faultless before they start selling them. It's no point blaming it on Windows or Mac.

Listening to consumers is very good, I agree, but in this case it seems they simply relying in the community to solve problems because they haven't got a clue.

I haven't had problems so far and I used an SD card formatted with a Mac (Disc Utility) and another with the SDFormatter App, but what concerns me is that the information available is unclear and raises issues of possible problems that can cause $$$$$ of damage to equipment (ECU).
This is obvious in the Manual.

This is a Black Cloud hovering over Black Box Solutions.

This could be a good product, but right now it's an unfinished toy that you can't rely on if you need to use the SD Card.

There are a few unresolved issues I'm aware of but the situation is nowhere near as bad as you are claiming.

I have been uploading map files from a 8gb SDcard formatted with the settings I've posted with zero issues and zero failures since the beta of the last firmware update in October 2012. I and many others have been posting up recordings of fuelling files made to SDCard without any issues for far longer than that.

One of the strengths of the AULRO forum is that we have been able to work with Colin and BBS to help resolve bugs and work towards making the EVO a better product for everyone. Colin is less involved here since the Nanocom forum opened up but is still a pretty regular visitor.

I'd suggest if you have specific issues with the quality of the documentation you contact BBS support because they are the people who produce the information and will be the people to correct it.

But if you hate the EVO and BBS as much as you appear to, you will probably be better off selling it. The EVO's fetch good money on eBay to the point that you can usually get your purchase price back.

cheers
Paul

Originally Posted by OffTrack

There are a few unresolved issues I'm aware of but the situation is nowhere near as bad as you are claiming.

I have been uploading map files from a 8gb SDcard formatted with the settings I've posted with zero issues and zero failures since the beta of the last firmware update in October 2012. I and many others have been posting up recordings of fuelling files made to SDCard without any issues for far longer than that.

I'd suggest if you have specific issues with the quality of the documentation you contact BBS support because they are the people who produce the information and will be the people to correct it.

But if you hate the EVO and BBS as much as you appear to, you will probably be better off selling it. The EVO's fetch good money on eBay to the point that you can usually get your purchase price back.

cheers
Paul

I don't see what your problem is mate, if you can't handle criticism you shouldn't have or be in an open forum. You don't need to be so defensive about it.

I haven't had a problem with it yet, except for BBS themselves showing a lack of confidence in the product themselves through their manual.

I'm only stating the obvious.

I started this thread because I was trying to follow the manual instruction, witch seemed unclear. The manuals gives you the idea that BBS themselves don't trust the reliability of the use of an SD card with their unit as I stated in a previous post.
Why bother contacting the company in this case. They already are giving a vote of no confidence in their own product.

You replied to me by telling me to go and read the updated version. That's fine but it makes no difference, it's exactly the same as the previous one in that respect.
Did you actually read the manual yourself ?

Quote:
"You can't really blame BBS for users not checking for updated docs. The current User Manual (v1.3) is very significantly improved over the one you've been referring to. Just as with firmware updates, you need to keep on top of the documentation updates - information changes and the latest version is always the one you need to refer to."

Thanks Grandpa.......I didn't know that.....

As I stated before I'm not having a problem with the unit reading or writing to the SD Card. I haven't used it much either. Copied my fuel map, disabled fob immobilizer, checked for faults, and that's all I needed it for right now.

If you are working closely with BBS and you claim that you've had no issues with 8GB SD cards for a long time and no reported issues from other users, why then their manuals give the opposite impression ?

On page 13, regarding the formatting of SD cards they even state: " This information from one of our beta testers may prove useful in the process"

"MAY"....that's reassuring. I'm sure they don't mean the month of the year.

OK, lets agree to disagree.