Ineos Grenadier, do you reckon it'll take off?

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Originally Posted by grey_ghost

People have complained that the new Defender is too expensive (fair enough) and that Ineos would build a cheaper Defender replacement.

Clearly in today’s environment it isn’t possible to make a decent enough profit at the price point.

Don’t get me wrong - this looks like a great vehicle, but it isn’t a cheap Defender replacement.

LR are chasing a different market with the new Defener and are selling plenty of them.

Ineos have now realised that a cheap Defender isn’t doable for the price/vehicle expectations.

Again - this looks like a great vehicle but to all the new Defender haters, this ain’t cheap…

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Agreed with this. The days of making a cheap old style vehicle are gone. But I think they will be a huge success despite the price. There is a huge market for a retro looking Proper 4wd even if it turns out to be no better off road than a Ford Everest or such like. Look at the Mini me Defender look alike Suzuki Jimmny. They can not keep up with the demand for them.

As quoted from a Drive piece that came out last year: “People just keep coming in to buy them,” said one long-standing dealer. “I think as more of them appear in the traffic, people see them and want to buy one. If I could get more I would sell more.”

There is still a long waiting list, and for what they are they are not really cheap. Or look at the prices of old Defenders with 300 thousand or more Ks on them still going for crazy prices. There is nothing wrong with the new Defenders but there is a perceived unreliability due to complexity issue with lots of computers etc. Probably they are very reliable but at the end of the day it looks like a Discovery. I think the money they have sunk into the Grenadier they will be around for some time and getting one will be a challenge for years. Especially as the Old Defender mad Americans start buying them. I reckon they will be better than money in the bank, not that that gets you much these days.

As well as the pricing target, they missed their 1 ton payload objective by close to 200 kg. This is a fairly big miss which must have been designed in with the trade off being a more heavy duty chassis, axles etc I assume?

I would still like to own one though! But yes a brand new manufacturer is a risk.

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Originally Posted by grey_ghost

People have complained that the new Defender is too expensive (fair enough) and that Ineos would build a cheaper Defender replacement.

Clearly in today’s environment it isn’t possible to make a decent enough profit at the price point.

Don’t get me wrong - this looks like a great vehicle, but it isn’t a cheap Defender replacement.

LR are chasing a different market with the new Defener and are selling plenty of them.

Ineos have now realised that a cheap Defender isn’t doable for the price/vehicle expectations.

Again - this looks like a great vehicle but to all the new Defender haters, this ain’t cheap…

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Interesting...

I would hazard a guess to say that the principal complaint regarding the new Defender is that it resembles a Disco and steps away from being a 'working vehicle'. Yes some will put it to work, but mostly in the city. Ineos pricing has been set for some time, and I don't believe they ever pretended to build a cheap, like-vehicle (the old Defender was never cheap really either, do the inflation sums).

You don't really walk away with much change from 100k for a new Troopy or 70 Series, and we Australians gobble them up. And a 300 series? Well, way north of that. 85k does get you a base Vehicle from Ineos, as promised. Extras of course add up, surely this was expected - and no different from every other - successful - manufacturer.

Some good comments above though.. heart sinks more than a little at them missing the payload goal of 1 tonne, though it is still almost class-leading for a wagon.... everything, absolutely everything is a compromise in vehicle design. The trade-off? Wonderfully solid chassis, body, powerful engine, modern safety standards. Far more liveable as a daily driver..

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Originally Posted by simonmelb

As well as the pricing target, they missed their 1 ton payload objective by close to 200 kg. This is a fairly big miss which must have been designed in with the trade off being a more heavy duty chassis, axles etc I assume?

I would still like to own one though! But yes a brand new manufacturer is a risk.

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And once it goes to that sort of payload,and seats 5 it is not far off being LCT exempt.

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Originally Posted by Tombie

We cancelled. Not throwing that coin at something that may be gone in 2 years.

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Tombie - respectfully - I think people are less interested by the fact that you cancelled, but rather why you cancelled. The premise that Ineos Automotive may cease to exist in 2 years was surely a scenario that existed when you paid the initial deposit?

The benefit one hopes to gain from a forum, for readers, is rationale behind a decision.

Cheers

Following Tombie's logic they may not exist in two years because their cars will be same price as other established players

Initially Ineos indicated their product would be competing with 70 series Landcruiser's & having just bought a 79 i can tell you they are much more expensive even with the accessories i had to fit to modernise mine.

Even if i spent $28k to convert it to auto they would be more expensive.

So they fill a niche for first years and then expire!!

Hope not but a real possibility.

They are not far off 300 series GR Cruiser which will be just as capable and is a known quantity.

I built and priced one on line and got to $114,000 plus on roads approx $8000 then approx $15000 LCT

So near on $140 k

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Originally Posted by chuck

They are not far off 300 series GR Cruiser which will be just as capable and is a known quantity.

I built and priced one on line and got to $114,000 plus on roads approx $8000 then approx $15000 LCT

So near on $140 k

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I can see why Tombie moved on,i wouldnt go near one ATM for that sort of price,looking at other vehicles on the market,Defender,LC300,and i think there is a refreshed Y62 not far off.There are also the 76,79, but built for a different market.

In five years time maybe.

And the lack of room for a long range fuel tank and overall lack of payload and space will put off most people who would go say a dual cab ute and were considering the Ineos due to roof load and overall payload that had been mooted. Cheers

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Originally Posted by chuck

Following Tombie's logic they may not exist in two years because their cars will be same price as other established players

Initially Ineos indicated their product would be competing with 70 series Landcruiser's & having just bought a 79 i can tell you they are much more expensive even with the accessories i had to fit to modernise mine.

Even if i spent $28k to convert it to auto they would be more expensive.

So they fill a niche for first years and then expire!!

Hope not but a real possibility.

They are not far off 300 series GR Cruiser which will be just as capable and is a known quantity.

I built and priced one on line and got to $114,000 plus on roads approx $8000 then approx $15000 LCT

So near on $140 k

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A 300 Series Cruiser being a "known quantity"?..... when its been released for just a month or so???
I beg to differ..... it'll take at least 12 months before that claim can be made.
The 300 Series is already up for its first recall!!

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Originally Posted by Discodicky

A 300 Series Cruiser being a "known quantity"?..... when its been released for just a month or so???
I beg to differ..... it'll take at least 12 months before that claim can be made.
The 300 Series is already up for its first recall!!

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Disco Dicky

When i saw a known quantity i am more referring to the brand, resale, history etc.

All new cars will have faults it is how they are dealt with that it is more important.