Ineos Grenadier, do you reckon it'll take off?

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Originally Posted by spudfan

Looks like the Grenadier could be the vehicle to visit out of the way places but will not be affordable to those who live there and could really do with a tough, basic 4x4 vehicle, which to my mind defeats the raison d'etre of the vehicle in the first place. Someone should reinvent the series Land Rover....

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This statement piqued my interest so I did a little research....

In 1968:
Series 2 cost $2928
Falcon Sedan, 6 Cyl Manual cost $2752
Toyota Landcruiser $4325

in 2022
Ineos Station Wagon $96,000
Mazda 6 $40,000
Toyota Landcruiser GXL 300 series $100,981

"Tough basic 4wds" have never been comparatively cheap and today we are in a position where the real price of a capable comfortable 4wd is around $100,000 regardless of the brand. There is more choice though, today you could compromise and get a Triton ute for about $50K, an option that was not available in 1968 when a 4WD was a much more specialist vehicle than today, but the "poor people" have never had access to cheap 4wds on the new vehicle market.
Prices taken from Redbook and I have generally tried to be comparable on middle of the range vehicles. Its true that you can get a Land Cruiser 78 series for less than 100K but you can also buy a stripped out Ineos for $84500.

Regards,
Tote

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tote

This statement piqued my interest so I did a little research....

In 1968:
Series 2 cost $2928
Falcon Sedan, 6 Cyl Manual cost $2752
Toyota Landcruiser $4325

in 2022
Ineos Station Wagon $96,000
Mazda 6 $40,000
Toyota Landcruiser GXL 300 series $100,981

"Tough basic 4wds" have never been comparatively cheap and today we are in a position where the real price of a capable comfortable 4wd is around $100,000 regardless of the brand. There is more choice though, today you could compromise and get a Triton ute for about $50K, an option that was not available in 1968 when a 4WD was a much more specialist vehicle than today, but the "poor people" have never had access to cheap 4wds on the new vehicle market.
Prices taken from Redbook and I have generally tried to be comparable on middle of the range vehicles. Its true that you can get a Land Cruiser 78 series for less than 100K but you can also buy a stripped out Ineos for $84500.

Regards,
Tote

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I wonder what Toyota charges for one of those 7x cars in that garage in Gibraltar.

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Originally Posted by scarry

Huge difference,one vehicle produced by a company has been around for 70yrs,the other about 3,and has yet to sell any vehicles?

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So?

Tesla.

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Originally Posted by Samblers

So?

Tesla.

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Indeed. Rimac. Rivian also.

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Originally Posted by Samblers

So?

Tesla.

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Completely different.
Tesla is entering and leading a new market.

Grenadia is trying to squeeze into a market,all ready dominated by others.

Same for Rivian.

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Originally Posted by scarry

.
Tesla is entering and leading a new market.

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Not quite. Tesla were not the first EV company. They also began by competing in the luxury car market against BMW, MB and dare I say it Jaguar. They also competed in the performance car market. Also, have you seen the early cars Tesla made? INEOS is far further down the path than Tesla was, and arguably still is. But yes, INEOS is facing stiff opposition. While it cannot rely on the subsidy advantage Tesla has, it does have a whole lot of money behind it.

Time will tell.

I hope it does well. They’ve given it a good crack at making something people claim to want.

When are we supposed to be seeing them in Oz?

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Originally Posted by Tombie

I hope it does well.

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So do I.

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Originally Posted by Tombie

are we supposed to be seeing them in Oz?

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They were talking about it being by the end of this year, but I think we can scrub around that one.

https://www.drive.com.au/news/2023-i...rs-production/

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tote

This statement piqued my interest so I did a little research....

In 1968:
Series 2 cost $2928
Falcon Sedan, 6 Cyl Manual cost $2752
Toyota Landcruiser $4325

in 2022
Ineos Station Wagon $96,000
Mazda 6 $40,000
Toyota Landcruiser GXL 300 series $100,981

"Tough basic 4wds" have never been comparatively cheap and today we are in a position where the real price of a capable comfortable 4wd is around $100,000 regardless of the brand. There is more choice though, today you could compromise and get a Triton ute for about $50K, an option that was not available in 1968 when a 4WD was a much more specialist vehicle than today, but the "poor people" have never had access to cheap 4wds on the new vehicle market.
Prices taken from Redbook and I have generally tried to be comparable on middle of the range vehicles. Its true that you can get a Land Cruiser 78 series for less than 100K but you can also buy a stripped out Ineos for $84500.

Regards,
Tote

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Putting this into perspective yet again:

in 2021 prices, according to the rba inflation calculator these cars would cost:

Series 2 cost $38,216
Falcon Sedan, 6 Cyl Manual cost $35,918
Toyota Landcruiser $56,449

That's still a whole lot cheaper than most cars on the market today? So although, yes, a cheap 4x4 probably never existed at least not for us (mahindra did exist in india) they were still a lot cheaper compared to today.

Also, if you look at the last large batches of defenders that were sold to NGO's and the current crop of solely Toyota's at this point they were/are all ROTW spec (rest of the world) and can get away with mounting engines that will never pass any legislation in the western world anymore like the venerable 1hz in the troopy's and what not. The defender had the 300tdi export until almost 2010 I believe? One could argue this reduces costs since no new development has to be made and you can get more money out of the investment it took to develop. One could also argue that keeping that factory running is more overhead, I really don't know.

What I do know however is that the grenadier is not that lucky. They had to build a car that is (barely) meeting current standards. Whether we think them just or not. NGO's and the likes are going to need to be the bread and butter for ineos, or they will have to go the landrover way and make the grenadier a luxury item.

Also, did someone say "tesla" as an example? That company scores even lower than landrover on the reliability surveys so... let's just hope grenadier does not follow that route since there are not enough virtue signaling greenies (or the 4x4 equivalent :) ) to keep ineos afloat.

I really REALLY want(ed?) the grenadier to succeed but as mentioned a long time ago in this thread I had to pull my money, regretfully, since it is not what I need it to be today and I am in doubt if it will be in the future but by God I wish them well and hope they make it!

Cheers,
-P

Yes i hope they do succeed.

Because it is always good to have competition.

Was going to test drive one and evaluate from there.

$12,000 price rise was pretty steep for a car that has not even landed in the country yet.