Thread: QANTAS fleet grounded

I don't like the man (so what) and I think he should have given some notice but this is probably the only way to resolve this mess in a timely manner so I will give him the benefit of the doubt but he had better deliver.

My other observation is that in a business as large as Qantas is in now almost impossible to run it in a family friendly caring and empowering sort of way and according to their pilots that I talk to they do not even make a pretence of trying. Ignoring common sense and reasonable requests in rostering as an example. Alienate & disempower your staff, get some union radicles and here we are.

If you're into Twitter follow Twitter

He's sending tweets from the actual hearing.

leigh_howard leigh_howard
Pilots: Qantas lockout not a genuine attempt to force negotiation. Instead it is attempt to deprive unions right to strike #Qantas
1 minute ago

leigh_howard leigh_howard
UniSA case: the UniSA action affected nursing grads especially, b/c they could not commence their new jobs withhout their grad certificate
2 minutes ago

leigh_howard leigh_howard
Pilots: taking tribunal through UniSA case. That case involved a suspension for action that was to prevent students from graduating #Qantas
4 minutes ago

Originally Posted by strangy

And 350-500 a year? what a load of tripe. The best paid paid pilots are in Emirates and Cathay and barely a handful approach this.

The average Pilot wage in Australia is $75k With the majority not employed by a major Airline earning under $60k. While some Captains enjoy Salaries approaching 300k they are a minority. The average Captains wage is 140k, yet you feel they dont deserve this on what basis?
You obviously think its Ok for the top managers of stores, companies, businesses, site supervisors, equipment operators to earn similar and more dollars but not someone who has reached the top of their profesion, becasue they fly an aircraft.
I guess the same distaste is held for the members here who can afford a new Range Rover, D4 or Puma?

Fact vs fiction has been an issue with aviation disputes, policy and regulation since the Wright brothers flew.
I make no apology, as I said before people without experience or knowledge make lots of grand statements which are either outright false or out of context, but they believe it to be true regardless.
When it comes to truth and fact, aviation is almost shrouded in mystery and magic for those outside the field. This is evidenced in the sensationalist and often exagerated reporting on any aviation event.

The core issues though have been highlighted quite well in this thread by those with views on both side, which should sound alarm bells for workers in all industry here.

Aviation is a litmus paper for the economy both local and international.
Global competition in any field does not equal a level playing field and wont in the future either.

Job guarentees are not a reality for anyone anymore and I see pursuing this as a futile exercise. BUT if Qantas succeeds overall with this endeavour it will pave the way for Australian companies to set up offshore, force out their workforce and replace them with offshore employment contracts and staff. An outcome Qantas has made no secret of from the outset.

Despite the rantings of the militant in the Union (there are these types in all industries and judging an entire industry on this is poor) there is a core of genuine professionals whose livelihood is being threatened, by the actions of Qantas Execs. Lets not forget the 100,000's businesses and individuals who have suffered already because of this decision.

Money has to be made businesses have to be proftable sacrifices must be made.......if this becomes the norm for this country, I suspect there will be change of tune for many.

I readily acknowledge the cost of operating any business in Australia is high and soon to be untenable for many. But if everything manufactured or serviced goes offshore, then the country will become a global outlet for a "Mad Harrys/ Crazy Clints/ 2 Dollar Shop "


cheers

seems ther is some dispute about pilots wages read this
Qantas pilots on high flying wages | thetelegraph.com.au

and it can be cheaked at
Airline Pilot Central - International
maybe they are better paid than you think or they will tell you
and while many employed by smaller airlines dont made this sort of money we are talking about QANTAS the biggest in the country.

Soooo whos gonna take their pride and joy off shore for a service then?????--- not me!

Originally Posted by strangy

And 350-500 a year? what a load of tripe. The best paid paid pilots are in Emirates and Cathay and barely a handful approach this.

The average Pilot wage in Australia is $75k With the majority not employed by a major Airline earning under $60k. While some Captains enjoy Salaries approaching 300k they are a minority. The average Captains wage is 140k, yet you feel they dont deserve this on what basis?
You obviously think its Ok for the top managers of stores, companies, businesses, site supervisors, equipment operators to earn similar and more dollars but not someone who has reached the top of their profesion, becasue they fly an aircraft.
I guess the same distaste is held for the members here who can afford a new Range Rover, D4 or Puma?

Fact vs fiction has been an issue with aviation disputes, policy and regulation since the Wright brothers flew.
I make no apology, as I said before people without experience or knowledge make lots of grand statements which are either outright false or out of context, but they believe it to be true regardless.
When it comes to truth and fact, aviation is almost shrouded in mystery and magic for those outside the field. This is evidenced in the sensationalist and often exagerated reporting on any aviation event.

The core issues though have been highlighted quite well in this thread by those with views on both side, which should sound alarm bells for workers in all industry here.

Aviation is a litmus paper for the economy both local and international.
Global competition in any field does not equal a level playing field and wont in the future either.

Job guarentees are not a reality for anyone anymore and I see pursuing this as a futile exercise. BUT if Qantas succeeds overall with this endeavour it will pave the way for Australian companies to set up offshore, force out their workforce and replace them with offshore employment contracts and staff. An outcome Qantas has made no secret of from the outset.

Despite the rantings of the militant in the Union (there are these types in all industries and judging an entire industry on this is poor) there is a core of genuine professionals whose livelihood is being threatened, by the actions of Qantas Execs. Lets not forget the 100,000's businesses and individuals who have suffered already because of this decision.

Money has to be made businesses have to be proftable sacrifices must be made.......if this becomes the norm for this country, I suspect there will be change of tune for many.

I readily acknowledge the cost of operating any business in Australia is high and soon to be untenable for many. But if everything manufactured or serviced goes offshore, then the country will become a global outlet for a "Mad Harrys/ Crazy Clints/ 2 Dollar Shop "


cheers

Thanks for that.
There is so much BS as to what Pilots and engineers earn, The public seem to think they are on mega salaries and that is just wrong.
There are a few on $200k plus but as said they are a monority and have vast expeience of the worlds most difficult airports. Next time talk to a pilot and you will be in for a surprise. Rates vary dramatically and all they have been after is some sort of equalisation. IMHO they should all be earning around $200k with the training they put in and most often have to attain themselves (commercial pilots licence can cost upwards of $400k). Why should for example a pilot flying to Tokyo be paid one rate, one flying Sydney - Perth another and another Perth - Karratha another rate? They all fly jets and generally simmilar jets. Bugger me Haul Pack drivers can earn more than pilots with no skill and often no IQ, believe me I see it daily.
The reality is most are lucky if they break $100k and for the training and stress that is not much. Average train drivers are on $100-$220k without the training costs or responsability (not talking metro rail). OHS workers are often on up to $250k.
It seems what people are saying is it is ok for a con man to go to Uni and get a business degree and then unleash their psycpathic Narsascitic tendencies on employes and get paid obscene amounts of money, for basically doing squat other than bullying people. Yet we are happy for pilots, engineers etc to spend the same time training and get paid substantially less??. And that is all our CEOs are is con men.

Originally Posted by CraigE

Thanks for that.
There is so much BS as to what Pilots and engineers earn, The public seem to think they are on mega salaries and that is just wrong.
There are a few on $200k plus but as said they are a monority and have vast expeience of the worlds most difficult airports. Next time talk to a pilot and you will be in for a surprise. Rates vary dramatically and all they have been after is some sort of equalisation. IMHO they should all be earning around $200k with the training they put in and most often have to attain themselves (commercial pilots licence can cost upwards of $400k). Why should for example a pilot flying to Tokyo be paid one rate, one flying Sydney - Perth another and another Perth - Karratha another rate? They all fly jets and generally simmilar jets. Bugger me Haul Pack drivers can earn more than pilots with no skill and often no IQ, believe me I see it daily.
The reality is most are lucky if they break $100k and for the training and stress that is not much. Average train drivers are on $100-$220k without the training costs or responsability (not talking metro rail). OHS workers are often on up to $250k.
It seems what people are saying is it is ok for a con man to go to Uni and get a business degree and then unleash their psycpathic Narsascitic tendencies on employes and get paid obscene amounts of money, for basically doing squat other than bullying people. Yet we are happy for pilots, engineers etc to spend the same time training and get paid substantially less??. And that is all our CEOs are is con men.

Well it was the union i got my figures from, But i digress no one has an issue with them earning vast amounts of money at all from what I have read on here. The vast sentiment seems to be they are trying to milk the company for as much as possible without giving the company anything extra in return.

Love how you hate on a CEO and trivialise what they do to get their position in life, have to ask how many multi billion dollar business have you ran? As theres a fair bit involved in becoming and acting as a CEO.

Originally Posted by 85 county

Wrong, Both Hitler and Lenin both outlawed unions, or just killed them of.
So what else does Mr Joyce have in common with Hitler and Stalin then?

Wrong, they do not counter absolute power, it is the lack of absolute power that allows unions to exist. Re read pervious comments.
They maintain balance by keeping the Bastards honest

½ correct, this is a litmus test for the unions, who have had declining support for quite a number of years now. How ever as you can see from many of the posts in this thread that the average working Joe is not as susceptible to the Union spin as was the case a decade or more past.

So will we all be better off financially if unions cease to exist?
Why do business leaders want union power curtailed?
Do they just want to give me a pay rise out of the goodness of their hearts?
There are not many "average working Joe`s" today average indebted Joe`s maybe.
Sorry but i cant see that i will be better off without a union in my industry.

Sound impressive, how much of the cash on hand is in bond ( landing rights etc) how much is allocated for out of order or emergency expenses ( IE a crash, victims) how much of that cash is required to me held in forren banks so the airline can actually operate there. And how much of that cash is just turnover ?

Firstly its not the CEOs decision, ( see absolute power) and if you can make a 500m dollar profit for me I would be more than happy to give you 1-2 million. But I think that you would need some education, and experience plus some reasonable IQ numbers to boot.

Never mind the "Intelligence Quotient" how about no morals, no empathy and no qualms about relegating an entire work force to the scrap heap.
Qantas has been in the top 3 of the most profitable air lines globally for quiet some time. How much better can they get? and at what cost?


Dam good idea, sell all the aircraft and lase them back “on time” this will control costs and get rid of the commie engineers. Just to the same as that FAT Australian CEO of anssett did.

WOW "commie" engineers, heaven forbid that some people have differing views on things.
Yep lets sell the farm and ship it off to Asia and loose one of our premier training facilities and dumb down out technical expertise some more.
I would love for my kids to have an apprenticeship at Qantas.
Ooh and Ables was not an Aussie either.
And he shipped an Awful lot of money back to Israel to help the war effort in his home land

So you don’t contribute to your super fund then?? Or do you have your retirement overseas?

Yes i contribute to an Industry fund, and only we benefit as members and im more than happy with my returns.

YOU forget, the unions are ---------- a business, they need to make a profit as well

"Forget" nothing, what sort of clap trap is that unions are a business if they are its only in the sense that they are looking after their members in return for their union fees.

Originally Posted by RR P38

"Forget" nothing, what sort of clap trap is that unions are a business if they are its only in the sense that they are looking after their members in return for their union fees.

Take it you have never been to a union lunch?