Thread: QANTAS fleet grounded

Oh and another point - QANTAS pilots haven;t gone on strike, haven't threatened to go on strike and aren't about to go on strike. It's just that today there are no aeroplanes to fly

Originally Posted by RR P38

"Forget" nothing, what sort of clap trap is that unions are a business if they are its only in the sense that they are looking after their members in return for their union fees.

Umm, no.
Putting the QANTAS situation to the side for a moment..

Unions are there for Unions. The work they do "for their members" is basically them shoring up their income stream. Unions are POLITICAL.

Look at the high quality people in Unions, and I don't mean just the Labor pollies that emerge from them.

Craig Thomson misappropriating funds in paying for prostitues on his Health Services Union credit card. The NSW Labor government subsequentlty pays $150,000 in legal bills for him to ensure he doesn't go bankrupt thereby losing his seat in pareliament which would cause Gillard to lose governemnt (in all probability).

Dean Mighell from the ETU (Victorian branch) arranged the donation of $325,000 of union funds (i.e. from union members dues) to assist them in winning seats in parliament (reps and senate).
Union bankrolls Greens

So I'm afraif if you think they all work just in their member's interests you are a little naive. That MAY have been the case 30 years ago but times have changed.

I worked for Union 30 years ago. nothing has changed it is still ALP politics first themsleves second, members third.

As l predicted Fair Work Australia, terminated the bargaining periods of the Unions and therefore makes strike action illegal and will now arbitrate on the claims and QANTAS jets be flying from Monday business as usual.

QANTAS used the only tactic legally available to it under the Fair Work Act and the only legal tactic available to employers to end Union strike action during EBA negotiations since 1994 when Peter Reith and John Howard created this system of bargaining.

Originally Posted by strangy

Qualified Aircraft Engineers with the appropriate approvals are one of the rarest species on the planet. Something the Airline Execs know has been the case for a long time and not going to improve in the near future.
All Qantas engineers will have jobs tomorrow if they want with almost any airline they want. Leaving the Airline in ruins.

Sorry mate, if this is what the general opinion is within Qantas it is seriously misguided, with the strength of the Australian Dollar most of the senior Engineers with decent approvals will take a fair pay cut not rise if they work overseas, fact not fiction(I am talking permanent Employment & not short term contracts). The Australian License will get you by in Asia but without an EASA license, preferably issued by the UK CAA the average Qantas Engineer will have limited decent job prospects in the wider overseas market. I hold 4 National Licenses & approvals on most Buses & Boeings & I do not earn what most senior Qantas or John Holland Engineers earn. I have friends in both places & know the figures. Australia is also in a bubble with good employment figures, step outside into the US or Eurozone & the realilty will bite that your concerns with Qantas management are quite minor compared to others just trying to hold onto their job & pay the bills. I dislike both unions & management & in Qantas's case I am not sure which is worse. I worked for Air Canada for 3 years in LHR for my sins & the Unions were far more destructive than the paymasters. Until both sides sit around the table & accept reality, huge harm is being done to Australia as a Nation in the eyes of the overseas public, both sides need to sort their crap out or Qantas will go the way of many other legacy carriers which is into liquidation.

For Australia's sake I hope this does not happen.

It makes no difference to the punters. If the airline is grounded by management or flts are cancelled by Industrial action, if they miss their flt they will look to fly with another airline then everyone within Qantas will be looking for another job. Remember Ansett.

Anyone going to book a Qantas flight?? -- Some wags at work want to pass the hat around for Joyce and get him a ticket to Ireland -- Singapore airlines (to be sure) -- one way -- one suggested a bus ticket

Once again, the armchair warriors get on their high horse, berating all as being overpaid, because they get paid more than themselves.
There has been no issue with Qantas domestic Pilots, they are on an agreement that is current until next year.
Qantas international Pilots are the ones that have been negotiating with Qantas. They are looking for a 2.5% increase in wages (negotiable) along with job security as Qantas is looking to go offshore. Yes some of them earn a good wage. But it also comes down to seniority, there are many Pilots at Qantas, that have been with there for over 30 years.
Remember when Qantas A380, QF 32 took off from Singapore with 466 Persons on Board and lost an engine, I bet there was no-one in Australia complaining about the amount Capt DeCrispney was earning at the time.
If this was an out sourced crew, I would doubt that the ending would not have been so positive.
Baggage handlers have been in negotiation for the past 8 months and are asking for a 5% wage increase plus 1% on superannuation. Once again negotiable. Qantas has been holding out and not negotiating. Baggage handlers have only striked for 5 hours over 8 weeks.
Engineers are asking for job security as well and put a ban on overtime. If Qantas has so many aircraft grounded due overtime ban, maybe they need to employ more permanent Engineers. Many Qantas planes are already maintained overseas, with very poor Maintenance Practices and Supervision. Ever noticed, there is a greater number of aircraft problems with the Qantas fleet over the last few years.
I know if I'm on a flight and some thing goes wrong, Im happy to have an over paid Qantas Pilot in command, he'll do his best to earn his wage then.

For those of you that are anti union, I'd love to know if you work a 38 hr week, get sick, bereavement, carers and annual leave, with loading. Do you work in a safe environment. These have been brought to you over the years bye the union movement.
I bet the Chinese workers making your Apple products, or Indians making shoes, or Cambodians making your clothes, wouldn't mind access to a union.

The ABC last night said that the pay rise awarded to the CEO was based on performance and if he can turn around the losses on the international side of QANTAS.
So until this time next year the CEO is actually 4% worse off..

Cheers Ean

Originally Posted by GregTD5

Once again, the armchair warriors get on their high horse, berating all as being overpaid, because they get paid more than themselves.
There has been no issue with Qantas domestic Pilots, they are on an agreement that is current until next year.
Qantas international Pilots are the ones that have been negotiating with Qantas. They are looking for a 2.5% increase in wages (negotiable) along with job security as Qantas is looking to go offshore. Yes some of them earn a good wage. But it also comes down to seniority, there are many Pilots at Qantas, that have been with there for over 30 years.
Remember when Qantas A380, QF 32 took off from Singapore with 466 Persons on Board and lost an engine, I bet there was no-one in Australia complaining about the amount Capt DeCrispney was earning at the time.
If this was an out sourced crew, I would doubt that the ending would not have been so positive.
Baggage handlers have been in negotiation for the past 8 months and are asking for a 5% wage increase plus 1% on superannuation. Once again negotiable. Qantas has been holding out and not negotiating. Baggage handlers have only striked for 5 hours over 8 weeks.
Engineers are asking for job security as well and put a ban on overtime. If Qantas has so many aircraft grounded due overtime ban, maybe they need to employ more permanent Engineers. Many Qantas planes are already maintained overseas, with very poor Maintenance Practices and Supervision. Ever noticed, there is a greater number of aircraft problems with the Qantas fleet over the last few years.
I know if I'm on a flight and some thing goes wrong, Im happy to have an over paid Qantas Pilot in command, he'll do his best to earn his wage then.

For those of you that are anti union, I'd love to know if you work a 38 hr week, get sick, bereavement, carers and annual leave, with loading. Do you work in a safe environment. These have been brought to you over the years bye the union movement.
I bet the Chinese workers making your Apple products, or Indians making shoes, or Cambodians making your clothes, wouldn't mind access to a union.

Once again someone jumps on their high horse without actually reading the responses in the thread, I can not find one post berating anyone for earning more than them.

You also have left out the part about the grading changes as part of the union demands than equal an increase much larger than the 2.5%.

Yes I am anti union, Yes when i did work i enjoyed the benefits the unions originally fought for but as an ex union employee and ex corporate sector finance employee these days they arent fighting for your rights thats for sure.

So calm down and read the posts before you decide everyones jealous of the pilots wage as i cant find one post to suggest that, but i can find plenty from the people on your side of the argument deriding the CEOs salary

A report from the Bureau of Infrastructure, Transport and Regional Economics shows Jetstar cancelled 2.1 per cent of flights in September, while Qantas cancelled 1.8 per cent.

The first major Qantas disruptions began on September 20, when more than 4000 Qantas baggage handlers and ground staff stopped work for four hours as part of an ongoing row over pay and conditions.

While Jetstar is a subsidiary of Qantas it has been largely unaffected by the Qantas strikes.

The actions of the union did not afected much the cancellations in Qantas.
Qantas have a profit of 1/2 billon dollars which compared to other airlines it is not bad. Well better that Air France
So stop bashing the unions which have the credit to give all of us good and safe working conditions and decent wages.
Those that do not like the workmanship done by the Qantas workers can go and fly in the no frills crop dusters from other countries
IMO the Qantas workers deserve all the money that are asking and if there is not enough in the box, then reduce the wages of management.