Carbon Tax. Well someone had to bring it up!

I typed this several days ago but it did not appear?
B.C in 2008 used to import about 5% of their cement needs from asia and export far more to canada/U.S now they are importing around 20%. This is called carbon shedding:o. The rest of the cement industry among others, is also threatening to move. They are also using MORE petrol in 2010 than in 2008 so it's not helping there either.

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Originally Posted by frantic

I typed this several days ago but it did not appear?
B.C in 2008 used to import about 5% of their cement needs from asia and export far more to canada/U.S now they are importing around 20%. This is called carbon shedding:o. The rest of the cement industry among others, is also threatening to move. They are also using MORE petrol in 2010 than in 2008 so it's not helping there either.

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Limestone is Calcium Carbonate tying up carbon. Processing Limestone intro cement releases CO2 I think Certainly acetylene is made from Calcium Carbide, which is made by heating limestone to drive off the CO2 if my memory is correct.

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Originally Posted by Chucaro

If kg per ton of steel is related to pollution or emissions per capita, which it is, then Australia still a big polluter.
Between China and India there are over 2 billon people that have the same right to have the standard of living that we have here or in USA among other countries. We polluted the planet with our standard of living and now things are getting out of hand when China and India start having cars and industy.
I thing that it is time to review our energy resources and mining before get it ourt of hand and in doing that encourage other countries to do the same.

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Chucaro the thing you dont seem to GRASP is china emitts 2.5-3 times the amount of carbon per ton of steel that we, europe and U.S do. If we continue down the path of an emissions cap we will shift the production to china/india and actually do far more damage to the enviroment.

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Originally Posted by frantic

If we continue down the path of an emissions cap we will shift the production to china/india and actually do far more damage to the enviroment.

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China eyes steel, cement sectors for carbon credit trade

Aug 4 (Reuters) - China is considering plans to cap the greenhouse gas emissions of steel, cement and other industries, paving the way for carbon credit trading in the world's biggest emitter, a newspaper cited an official as saying on Thursday.

China is the world's biggest emitter of the greenhouse gases from human activity. The cap-and-trade system would be part of the nation's goal to cut carbon intensity -- the amount of carbon dioxide pollution released for each unit of economic growth -- by 40-45 percent by 2020 compared with 2005 levels.

If this is true (and does actually happen) we won't be shifting production to China merely because we have an emisions cap.

Given china,s past performance with things such as human rights, copy right, intellectual property etc does any body think they will hold back their industry to keep the west happy or will they smile and say anything they think we want to hear:(

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Originally Posted by THE BOOGER

Given china,s past performance with things such as human rights, copy right, intellectual property etc does any body think they will hold back their industry to keep the west happy or will they smile and say anything they think we want to hear:(

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Easy fix, if they do not do the right thing that they do not have raw material and whatever produce that is not eviroment friendly is not allowed to be imported.
Of course that require a lot of political will which no country have :D

China generates 20% of its energy from renewables (wind, solar, hydro), so that's WAY more than us. We are falling behind.
Don't believe me? Read National Geographic June 2011.

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Originally Posted by DiscoMick

China generates 20% of its energy from renewables (wind, solar, hydro), so that's WAY more than us. We are falling behind.
Don't believe me? Read National Geographic June 2011.

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Indeed. Also, on average their coal fired power plants are newer and more efficient than ours, and they all have flue gas desulphurisation. NONE of ours do.

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Originally Posted by Ferret

-- the amount of carbon dioxide pollution released for each unit of economic growth -- by 40-45 percent by 2020 compared with 2005 levels.

If this is true (and does actually happen) we won't be shifting production to China merely because we have an emisions cap.

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Read then re-read that line(for each unit of economic growth) then read it again to truly understand:angel:
to RE_STATE we are going to cap emissions OVERALL.
From your own source they are going to cap it PER UNIT.

If we cap it overall and they only cap per unit this means(again):wallbash: they can continue to increase production and CO2 output to suit the market. E.g:
With their steel mills putting out 1.5-3 times the Carbon that a western mill does they only need to introduce our CURRENT technology poorly over the next decade to meet that target.

And lets look at the renewables:mad: of the 20% about 16% is from hydro. To do this they built massive dams, flooded huge area's caused landslides and failures that have contributed to around 240,000 deaths and displaced 15 million people of ethnic minority groups. They are even blaming a recent dam construction(Zipingpu dam) for the sichuan earthquake. The 3 gorges dam had carcinagenic water that fed about 180 cities.
They are currently constructing 180 mid-large scale dams , we cannot manage to build 1. Brown would rather burn another million tonnes of coal to feed a de-sal plant than fill a valley with H2O.