Thread: undisciplined military in Syria

I was travelling overland through Syria in 2008 and accidently drove up to a military base just outside Damascus at night looking for somewhere to camp (in my 300tdi disco). Ended up with a couple of warning shots being fired at us by a patrol trying to get us to stop.
We eventually figured out what was going on and stopped, between the 10 or so troupes that surrounded us they had 1 AK between them and we had to lend them pen, paper and torch so they could get our license and passport numbers!
We ended up parking in a lay-by for the night, next morning a we were passed by a load of troupes on a morning run where we spotted at least 2 or 3 of them hiding behind cars for a circuit and joining in the next lap so they didn’t have to run as far - hardly the discipline you expect from the military!
At the time we laughed but I guess that inherent lack of discipline is now taking a much uglier form!

Its an inherent problem with conscript armies all over the world bottom line is bad soldiers are lead by bad officers
An example where a good officer can lead well disciplined conscript digs is Israel but they are an exception

My opinion is it's mostly about the culture and society that the army draws from. Our concept of military discipline is a very modern, western creation. If you think about the tactics of a modern (post WW1) western army they are really based around the technology being used and the tactical philosophy; Mission Command for example. If you want to have small, semi-autonomous teams moving around the battlespace you must know where they are and trust them to act in a certain way (compliance with laws of conflict etc...) so you can employ other weapon systems like artillery and aerial delivered weapons without fratricide and avoid breaches of international laws.

If your society doesn't have the same risk tolerance as a western society you don't need the same level of discipline. If you are less concerned about the laws of armed conflict and fratricide you can spend much less time training and enforcing discipline and just teach soldiers to shoot and run! You can also arm your soldiers with very crude weapons (AK-47, RPG) and rely on weight of fire...

If you look at history (post WW2) and see some of the really effective militia forces around the world in low-intensity conflict, most of them are not based on western military ideas of discipline. In fact western forces are moving towards some of these concepts but with the advantage of better discipline and technology (swarming, for example).

Having said all that, I do cringe when I see the state of some of those weapons and the shabby application of marksmanship principles!

Cheers,

Adam

becouse North africa never had an Agincourt and Muhammad Ahmad bin Abd Allah died so the lesons learnt died with him.

I've often wondered how I'd go in that type of situation with my Mk111,with nothing more than a central sight I recon my score would grow quickly against blokes in the open shooting from the hip. Pat

Originally Posted by akelly

My opinion is it's mostly about the culture and society that the army draws from. Our concept of military discipline is a very modern, western creation.Adam

I think the ancient Greeks, Romans, Mongols and Zulus would disagree that disciplined troops are modern, western creations.

Originally Posted by ugu80

I think the ancient Greeks, Romans, Mongols and Zulus would disagree that disciplined troops are modern, western creations.

i think you have missed the point

Originally Posted by ugu80

I think the ancient Greeks, Romans, Mongols and Zulus would disagree that disciplined troops are modern, western creations.

Completely different type of discipline. I did say 'our concept of military discipline'.

Cheers,

Adam