Am I racist for saying...

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Originally Posted by SBD4

I would say "bigotry" more closely describes what you are talking about which racism, sexism etc. are more specific definitions pertaing to race, sex etc. While bogans are white anglo aussies, not all anglo ausiies are bogans. The term bogan labels a specific demographic within the anglo aussie population - further still, anglo aussie is not a race. If all Anglo-Saxons world wide could be descibed as bogans then, perhaps, the use of the term bogan in a negative context could be seen as racist.

Still, I see your point about the racial connotation associated with the term but, if comes from someone of the same race (white) then it can not be interpreted as racist and more intended to highlight social differences. I would hazard a guess and say that the use of the term would typically be fore the latter.

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Yep I do agree. I think the lines are so blurred in the HR space that we have to be so careful. - Sorry, I probably should have explained that is where I am coming from.
I have had white or 'Anglo' staff put on warnings for being overly supportive in arguments supporting other races to other Anglo whites. Think about that for a second.
I've also had staff of Asian decent in over the coals for the use of the term 'Bogan', based on how it was directed at the person it was aimed at based on 'race'.
Wouldn't anything directed at an individual with the slightest reference to a person's origin be regarded as racist then? Whether that origin is Western Sydney or a different part of the world. Sorry, I should say, how that individual perceives the intent of the words being used.

Another example -
Some Irish people are offended by words relating to Potatoes. But Potato or Potatoes are not any words that describe anything in the 'manual' that describes Racism. Yet it is a racist term when directed with that intent to people of Irish decent, well the ones that would be offended by that anyway.

So if you call someone a Bogan who finds that offensive based on where they believe is home or their origin, and they take it as a racist comment, then we have to treat it as such. It is usually Caucasian Australians referring to other Caucasian Australian's as Bogans, indicating a 'lesser' race of white Australians or that they are beneath them because they are not from the North Shore, or Shire etc. Same country, only 50kms apart.

Bogan is just an example, as people are far and few between that are offended by it, hence me using it. Sorry to anyone that could be offended by that. Swap that with Terrorist, or Sweat Shop, or Monkey or Slave or Curry, etc etc. Usually the most offended by these racial slur's are Australian's that may even be 3rd generation and appear to be 'white' and are defending their origin.

So back to topic, the fact that the word Asian's was used in the original post, then yes it was a racist comment.
If they were dickheads for taking the space up, and no mention was made to their race then it wouldn't have been racist.

Very touchy subject, and I think everyone has been very respectful whilst commenting about it. Another testament to the quality of AULRO members. Trust me I have been a member on some forum's where the keyboard warriors will just abuse everyone and anyone over anything.

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Originally Posted by DT-P38

And there you have it... Well put Wayne. It IS racist (or at least discriminatory) to use wording that can not be applied to ALL people in this country.

So the new question is: What should be said to get the message across that we don't push in or queue jump?

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Although pushing in and queue jumping is frowned upon, I think you have got it all wrong here Dave. Going way back to your original post dealing with the bench, they were not queue jumping, they were squatting. They were being traditional Australians. Aren't squatters and squatting an old, revered Australian tradition?

The whole "racism" thing has gone way too far though. At one stage police weren't allowed to describe particular offenders as being of "aboriginal or islander appearance". Makes it harder to find a perpetrator when you can't even decribe them accurately.

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Originally Posted by rb30gtr

...I've also had staff of Asian decent in over the coals for the use of the term 'Bogan', based on how it was directed at the person it was aimed at based on 'race'.
Wouldn't anything directed at an individual with the slightest reference to a person's origin be regarded as racist then? Whether that origin is Western Sydney or a different part of the world. Sorry, I should say, how that individual perceives the intent of the words being used.

Another example -
... <snip>
So if you call someone a Bogan who finds that offensive based on where they believe is home or their origin, and they take it as a racist comment, then we have to treat it as such. It is usually Caucasian Australians referring to other Caucasian Australian's as Bogans, indicating a 'lesser' race of white Australians or that they are beneath them because they are not from the North Shore, or Shire etc. Same country, only 50kms apart.

Bogan is just an example, as people are far and few between that are offended by it, hence me using it. Sorry to anyone that could be offended by that. Swap that with Terrorist, or Sweat Shop, or Monkey or Slave or Curry, etc etc. Usually the most offended by these racial slur's are Australian's that may even be 3rd generation and appear to be 'white' and are defending their origin.

...<snip>

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Actually the term bogan is not racist, it is classist. They are usually people of the same Australian background (or nationality based upon place of birth) but a different socio-economic class or education (or perceived to be) so Legislation/Regulation on racism and discrimination has no effect. However policies on bullying and harasment do come into effect.

Similarly if the term bogan was used for someone of diminished intellect, then there would be a case of discrimination based upon disability.

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Originally Posted by rb30gtr

It sure does.

If you are not happy with them because they are arrogant and annoying, that is fine, but you used the word Russians in the sentence, which refer's to an entire Race of people therefore it was racist.
And the fact that you piece them together as 'Russians', did you survey them all to see if they were in fact all Russians, or could have some being from somewhere else? And Maybe just people having a bad day, or are worried about something that has happened in their lives does not make all Russians arrogant and annoying etc.

Oh and using terms such as 'these people' or 'I'm not racist but..' at the start of a sentence, usually means you are.

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Thanks for your point . Please read my post again . I did say a lot of Russians , and I did say a lot of those were very rude and inconsiderate . I don't feel naming them was Racist . The point It could have been any group , If I had of said a group of Ausies would that still make It Racist . I did say "these people" not those , I don't think for one second all Russians are rude or inconsiderate ..

Everyone tries so hard to be PC these days that anything mildly insulting is blasted as 'racist' almost immediately.
Anyone who has done a little travelling would realise that Australians aren't really all that racist compared to many other countries. I found it pretty funny how racist Asians are to other Asians who aren't from the same country as them. Japanses, Korean, Chinese etc. They all hate each other and will relentlessly hang crap on them.

Like most things these days, the media has taken it and made a big deal out of of to make themselves more $$$.

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Originally Posted by ScottW

Everyone tries so hard to be PC these days that anything mildly insulting is blasted as 'racist' almost immediately.
Anyone who has done a little travelling would realise that Australians aren't really all that racist compared to many other countries. I found it pretty funny how racist Asians are to other Asians who aren't from the same country as them. Japanses, Korean, Chinese etc. They all hate each other and will relentlessly hang crap on them.

Like most things these days, the media has taken it and made a big deal out of of to make themselves more $$$.

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That's racist! :D

Some of these issues are really frustrating, it is now almost impossible for a manager to challenge a lazy or incompetent employee for their work performance, lest the manager be counselled for bullying! :mad: (oops, that :mad: would be bullying! My apologies is this better = :) )

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Originally Posted by jimr1

Thanks for your point . Please read my post again . I did say a lot of Russians , and I did say a lot of those were very rude and inconsiderate . I don't feel naming them was Racist . The point It could have been any group , If I had of said a group of Ausies would that still make It Racist . I did say "these people" not those , I don't think for one second all Russians are rude or inconsiderate ..

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I do understand, I am only coming from the other side of the argument. I do not label you as a racist based on your comment, but it could be seen as so by someone who finds it offensive.

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Originally Posted by Lotz-A-Landies

Actually the term bogan is not racist, it is classist. They are usually people of the same Australian background (or nationality based upon place of birth) but a different socio-economic class or education (or perceived to be) so Legislation/Regulation on racism and discrimination has no effect. However policies on bullying and harasment do come into effect.

Similarly if the term bogan was used for someone of diminished intellect, then there would be a case of discrimination based upon disability.

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Yeah I see your point. If someone comes to me, and they feel they have been racially vilified by the use of the word bogan, then we would have to treat it as a case of racism. I am not sure how far it would go, but we would have to take the person seriously.

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Originally Posted by ScottW

I found it pretty funny how racist Asians are to other Asians who aren't from the same country as them. Japanses, Korean, Chinese etc. They all hate each other and will relentlessly hang crap on them.

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I once worked with a Malaysian of Chinese ethnicity. He was in Oz to study engineering at university and was allowed to work in an engineering environment as part of that training.

The only reason he was here was because tertiary education opportunities like this were pretty much denied to ethnic Chinese in Malaysia, preference being given to ethnic Malays for available places in the Malaysian university system.

At the end when his visa ran out he did not return to Malaysia, showed his finger to Malaysia and went to Singapore to live and work.

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Originally Posted by rb30gtr

Yeah I see your point. If someone comes to me, and they feel they have been racially vilified by the use of the word bogan, then we would have to treat it as a case of racism. I am not sure how far it would go, but we would have to take the person seriously.

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No you say to them that you understand that they are feeling hurt, maybe even vilified by the use of the term, but unfortunately it doesn't meet the criteria of racisim (because being a Bogan is not considered a race). However, you will proceed on the complaint on the basis of inter-staff bullying.

If you accept a complaint that is outside the criteria for discrimination (or racism) you will end up having to deal with complaints based upon the colour of people's clothing or the shortness of their hair or the suburb they live in.

IMHO call racism: racism and bullying: bullying and deal with them as such.