Thread: Cyclists.

Originally Posted by Dave_S

Ordinarily I wouldn't bother replying, but I may as well burst some of your myth bursting.

As to "myth one", cyclists do fall off from time to time. They recover quickly. <not necessarily> I once fell off and broke my neck in six places. I was in hospital for six days. Another time I broke three ribs, punctured a lung and broke a foot in 3 places. I spent a whole eight hours in hospital that time. People who lead sedentary lifestyles tend to develop chronic illness and take up years worth of hospital time before shuffling off their mortal coil. It's nice of us cyclists to make room for them all.

In "myth two" you assume that all cyclists use roads, <I made no such assumption> or at least major roads, all the time. Most people I know avoid cars, using pathways and backstreets wherever possible. I ride over 20kms each way to work, mostly on pathways. I could just ride 12kms on the road, but why would I risk being mown down by someone who wants to kill me just for being a cyclist?

No doubt for "myth three" you can produce some dodgy statistic about the Sydney CDB, but the reality is that town planners want cars and trucks out of central urban areas. Billions are being spent on bypasses, parking fees are increasing and more clearways are being declared. It's a bit of a stretch to blame cyclists for that. Every time you find a parking space, just be grateful that someone decided to cycle instead of driving their Land Rover and beating you to it.

I don't really know what you're getting at with "myth four", except to point out that you hate people who drive Volvos and Subaru Foresters. I have two Volvos by the way, neither of which is likely to hold you up. If you're saying that it's unfair that cyclists benefit from tax expenditure, are you saying that people who don't have kids shouldn't pay tax that goes to support schools? Whatever you're trying to say, it doesn't seem to make much sense.

At the end of the day, none of this matters. If cyclists are forced to pay registration and banned from most roads, people will still hate them. But bikes are here to stay and sad little people will remain free to hate them.

Firstly I am not advocating removal of cyclists from the roads, they have as much right to use the road as motorists, I am challenging your notions that cyclists are a benefit to society with nil costs as indicated by your previous post.

Originally Posted by Dave_S

because every time a cyclist gets on a bike he or she is doing you a huge favour

Broke your neck in six places and spent 6 days in hospital. ???? I'd like to see the images of those scans. Who paid for the care? It was a road related injury so outside Medicare, oh that's right, it was the pool of funds created by the motorists green slips. As to your injuries, maybe you were very lucky and had minor stable hairline fractures of a number of vertibral bodies, not the usual definition of a broken neck, otherwise you would have been in halo traction and had frequent outpatient visits and tied up significant amount time in outpatients and specialists rooms. I used to cross-country ski with Colleen Bolton, she had a cycling accident in the Blue Mountians, became a paraplegic as do lots of cyclists, these cases spend huge amounts of time in hospital and rehabilitation. Much longer than someone having a coronary bi-pass graft. In fact a significant proportion of patients in spinal rehabilitation are either cyclists or motor cyclists.

In Myth two, "riding on pathways", in NSW unless a designated shared route with pedestrians, the only time it's legal for a cyclist to use pathways is when you're riding with children under 14 years of age. Only last week I witnessed a cyclist riding on the pathway outside the hospital who knocked down an elderly woman pedestrian.

In Myth three, I agree with you that town planners want to remove cars etc from cities and are spending billions on infrastructure, however a lot or most of this is being paid by fuel excise, GST and registration charges. In the same light the cycle ways to get cyclists off the road are removing parking spaces outside the CBD, in Sydney long distances away from the CDB e.g. Alexandria, an industrial/business suburb that has traditionally had minimal off street parking for workers with minimal public transport options except for the exorbitantly expensive Sydney Airport line. Surely you don't expect all workers to cycle to and from work in places like Alexandria.

Myth four. You don't see the cost of building and maintaining cycleways as equivalent of wear and tear on the roads? What brand of rose coloured glasses are you wearing? BTW: The Subaru Forester comment was a tangent, I have learned to be weary of that model of car, just like I was weary of Volvos last century.

Originally Posted by Lotz-A-Landies

...

Broke your neck in six places and spent 6 days in hospital. ???? ....

I have seen the scans and was there when it happened. Dave was sitting in a chair in his hospital room the day after the operation, with just a bit of titanium, a chunk of hipbone and some screws in place of his C3.

Not on a road so no (motor vehicle) insurance $$$ involved. AFAIK Dave went private for everything...

Again you have made a lot of statements not based on your own (biased) views, rather than the facts (like many in this thread)...

maybe its a good thing Dave rides a bike and doesnt drive a car, haha

Originally Posted by isuzurover

I have seen the scans and was there when it happened. Dave was sitting in a chair in his hospital room the day after the operation, with just a bit of titanium, a chunk of hipbone and some screws in place of his C3.

Not on a road so no (motor vehicle) insurance $$$ involved. AFAIK Dave went private for everything...

Again you have made a lot of statements not based on your own (biased) views, rather than the facts (like many in this thread)...

Your stating that I'm biased, but by extension Dave and yourself totally unbiased and cyclists a a huge benefit to society.

Now who's being biased then.

BTW: From a professional perspective of the information provided by Dave, there had to be a lot more to his injuries than he disclosed. It is why I suggested I'd like to see the images. Now you have informed me that Dave had spinal surgery and internal fixation. Which clarifies the injuries, but it was the surgery that allowed him to be discharged in six days, not necessarily anything to do with the general health of cyclists

Originally Posted by Dave_S

They recover quickly

having shorter stays in hospital than non-cyclists. If I were to think about that I would suggest it was a statement not based upon facts and could be considered biased.

Originally Posted by isuzurover

I have seen the scans and was there when it happened. Dave was sitting in a chair in his hospital room the day after the operation, with just a bit of titanium, a chunk of hipbone and some screws in place of his C3.

Not on a road so no (motor vehicle) insurance $$$ involved. AFAIK Dave went private for everything...

Again you have made a lot of statements not based on your own (biased) views, rather than the facts (like many in this thread)...

Thanks Ben. Yep, you and the guys saved my life that day. They said any attempt to move me before the paramedics arrived would have killed me. It was such a mess that surgery was the only option. I did go private, partly to get the best surgeon, and I did pay for everything that my private health cover didn't pick up.

Cyclists' injuries usually aren't all that serious, certainly not compared to motorcyclists, and they do tend to get out of hospital quickly. Cyclists seem to have a very positive attitude and are always keen to get back on their feet. It is awful that a few people suffer serious and debilitating injuries, but they pale into insignificance compared to patients with serious illness brought on largely by a sedentary lifestyle. I also find it perverse that someone would use the example of badly injured cyclists to justify hating cyclists in general.

And as for suggesting that "lots of cyclists" become paraplegics, that is just rubbish.

This is pretty funny. I just went to "General Chat" on the Other Forum I frequent & 1st thread is about the love/hate bicycle fervour
Yaaawn!
Steve

Originally Posted by Dave_S

...
Cyclists' injuries usually aren't all that serious, certainly not compared to motorcyclists, and they do tend to get out of hospital quickly. Cyclists seem to have a very positive attitude and are always keen to get back on their feet. It is awful that a few people suffer serious and debilitating injuries, but they pale into insignificance compared to patients with serious illness brought on largely by a sedentary lifestyle. I also find it perverse that someone would use the example of badly injured cyclists to justify hating cyclists in general.

And as for suggesting that "lots of cyclists" become paraplegics, that is just rubbish.

Dave

I'm glad you're O.K after the accident.

You are however still making unsubstianted claims about the recovery of cyclists.

Furthermore you are most definately twisting my words significantly.

I was going to go on with published datasets about spinal cord injuries. However I shall leave it at this I have in my hand published literature related to spinal injuries in unprotected road users that suggests that apromimately 50% will have a complete spinal cord injury, three quarters those being motorcyclists but of the remaining, potentially 50% of pedal cyclists admitted with spinal cord injury will have a complete lesion. As did my friend Colleen.

At no stage have I stated anywhere that I hate cyclists, or that they should be registered or banned from the road. In fact in most places I defend the right of cyclists to use as much of the road lane as they choose, including riding abreast, in a pelleton and or at least a metre from the edge of the road.

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POLICE will launch a blitz on cyclists flouting road rules to coincide with the flood of amateur riders hitting the streets for the Santos Tour Down Under.

Motorists have also been put on notice that police will be cracking down on cars parked illegally in bike lanes.

The blitz comes as police figures obtained by The Advertiser reveal thousands of cyclists a year are caught breaking traffic laws.

Operation Safe Cycling will begin on Sunday and run until the end of March in an effort to reduce cyclists creating 'traffic hazards?? and putting their safety at risk.

Officer in Charge of Traffic Support Branch Superintendent Bob Fauser, warned cyclists that they 'must obey the same road rules as drivers of motor vehicles??.

?At all times we ask cyclists to be aware that the same road safety rules, laws and penalties for drivers also apply to them,?? he said.

He also said cyclists can accumulate demerit point for breaking road rules which could put their drivers licence at risk.

?We'll focus on cyclists disobeying road rules and traffic controls, including traffic lights and stop signs, riding at night without lights, causing traffic hazards by riding more than two abreast and not wearing helmets,?? Supt Fauser said.

Latest police figures show an average 17 riders were pulled over last year for breaching traffic laws.

In the 11 months to November, more than 3400 cyclists were cautioned or fined for failing to wear a helmet, 1500 for riding at night without either an appropriate front or rear light and 218 for riding on a footpath.

Recreational cycling group Bike SA said it was glad the police campaign would focus on cyclists and motorists.

?Cars illegally parked in bike lanes force cyclists onto the main road space and that increases safety risks,?? Bike SA chief executive Christian Haag said.

?The Tour Down Under is the time where a lot more people are getting the bike out the shed and riding maybe for the first time in months or years, and the operation is a good education.??

Mr Haag said the blitz and number of fines issued every year to riders proves 'they are not a law unto themselves or get away with breaking the law??.

The Motor Accident Commission is also using the Tour Down Under's high profile to promote road safety.

It will colour the Adelaide Oval and Riverbank footbridge yellow during the event to push its Be Safe Be Seen message.

MAC road safety general manager Michael Cornish said heeding the message could save lives.

?The Santos Tour Down Under is a hugely popular event and encourages many more people to get onto their bikes in January,? Mr Cornish said.

?Whether you are a regular cyclist or just getting into the spirit of the Tour this month, MAC recommends that you wear fluorescent, light or generally bright clothing when riding.??