Thread: Big storm and no power in SA

Originally Posted by BradC

We've had solar on boat and vans for over 30 years now. You can't in any way, shape or form try and compare a stand alone low voltage system designed to manage and moderate power consumption with a grid tied battery system where you have zero control over how many houses crank their kettles at the same time. TV pickup - Wikipedia

Try fully cycling the batteries in your van every single day and see how long they last.

Until the technology vastly improves we just can't build batteries big enough with any form of cost effectiveness and they still have a massive lifetime impediment.

Have you been using AGM or Lithium ION batteries ?

Originally Posted by DiscoMick

If Tesla is correct, we are about 3 years away from a major advance in battery technology and costings. Only time will tell.
Mean while, anyone who owns a caravan with solar and batteries knows how this works in practice.

With the solar on our roof, we have been in credit for the last two quarters. Nothing to do with batteries, I know. But they look like they will be the future.

A.E.M.O. takes lead role in global consortium seeking rapid energy transition.

AEMO takes lead role in global consortium seeking rapid energy transition | RenewEconomy

AND- solar meets 100% of South Australian demand for the first time.

Solar meets 100 per cent of South Australia demand for first time | RenewEconomy

Originally Posted by bob10

Have you been using AGM or Lithium ION batteries ?

Mix of AGM and flooded. Doesn't really matter for the point of the argument. Lithium have up to 3 times the life expectancy of the lead acid units. The point was if you fully cycle them daily you'll get at best 3 years. Mobile low voltage systems are completely different to grid tied systems where you *need* to cycle them even attempt to recoup costs.

The link you posted above was interesting. They're removing >800MW of rotating machinery and replacing it with ~600MW of solar and ~1200MWh (over 4 hours) of battery. I'm sure the numbers add up somewhere but I can't quite reconcile them. Generally when you build a rotating plant you budget for somewhere in the 50 year lifespan. At the moment you're looking at a battery re-cell after 10 years and new solar panels out to 20 (at best). I suppose you're betting on a significant improvement in technology in that time frame, but looking at wind turbines you end up throwing the whole lot away and starting from scratch as the incoming technology isn't compatible with the existing structures.

It's going to take a *massive* shift in technology to make this stuff stack up in the long term.

I just had a squizz at the AEMO . Right now on this side of the country, 11.5GW is being generated by black coal. Sure it's still peak times, but that's "quite a lot" of capacity.

Originally Posted by BradC

Mix of AGM and flooded. Doesn't really matter for the point of the argument. Lithium have up to 3 times the life expectancy of the lead acid units. The point was if you fully cycle them daily you'll get at best 3 years. Mobile low voltage systems are completely different to grid tied systems where you *need* to cycle them even attempt to recoup costs.

The link you posted above was interesting. They're removing >800MW of rotating machinery and replacing it with ~600MW of solar and ~1200MWh (over 4 hours) of battery. I'm sure the numbers add up somewhere but I can't quite reconcile them. Generally when you build a rotating plant you budget for somewhere in the 50 year lifespan. At the moment you're looking at a battery re-cell after 10 years and new solar panels out to 20 (at best). I suppose you're betting on a significant improvement in technology in that time frame, but looking at wind turbines you end up throwing the whole lot away and starting from scratch as the incoming technology isn't compatible with the existing structures.

It's going to take a *massive* shift in technology to make this stuff stack up in the long term.

I just had a squizz at the AEMO . Right now on this side of the country, 11.5GW is being generated by black coal. Sure it's still peak times, but that's "quite a lot" of capacity.

Yes, I think this is like any new technology, until people get their head around it, it will be always be regarded with suspicion. But things are moving very fast, the technology is improving and more and more major players are jumping aboard . You might compare it to the transition from gas to electric light, or sail to Steam. Interesting times.

New wind and solar projects will be required to meet new technical connection standards, as well as being liable for a share of some network investment costs, in a new plan proposed by the Australian Energy Market Commission (AEMC) as it seeks a solution to system strength issues.
The AEMC has proposed a new framework to manage system strength, finding that a new set of energy market reforms was required to manage the exit of coal generators and the growth of solar and wind.
The AEMC’s new framework will establish a new network planning standard, that will require high levels of ‘system strength’ to be maintained in the grid, a new set of technical standards for generators connecting to the grid and new mechanisms for coordinating and sharing the costs of system strength investment.


Wind and solar face new connection rules, share of system strength costs | RenewEconomy

Massive Asian Renewable Energy Hub grows to 26GW of wind and solar | RenewEconomy

The Western Australian government has granted state environmental approvals to the massive first stage of the Asian Renewable Energy Hub, which proposes to build up to 15,000MW of new wind and solar power in the state’s Pilbara region and has expanded its long term plans to an extraordinary 26,000MW.
It is a major step toward the project becoming a reality, with the McGowan government giving the project environmental clearance for the first 15,000MW stage of the project, to be built across 6,500 square kilometres in the Pilbara region, as the developers seek to capitalise on an emerging market for Australian renewable energy exports, including green hydrogen.

And who has heard of compressed hydrogen? not me. But Australians have designed a ship to export it.

Aussie compressed ‘zero carbon’ hydrogen transport ship unveiled | RenewEconomy