Thread: "Demerit" Points.

Traffic fines, in the main, is nothing more than Revenue Raising, agree or disagree that is the plain truth. Demerit points are the attempted legitimization of Traffic Fine Taxation. Anyone over the age of 40 or 45 does not need proof of these facts. Remember when a Policeman was the sole means by which you received a ticket for speeding? You were followed by a Police car or spotted by a policeman using a speed recording device. He knew if you were actually speeding, or had momentarily crept over because of whatever reason. He knew if you were "going for it" or was slightly over because you were in a bit of a hurry, had an emergency or whatever other reason. He pulled you up and dealt with you according to the need. Now a camera "senses" an object has passed it's field at a speed faster than it's setting and takes a picture, end of story. Back to our Policeman, having decided you were simply out for a joy ride and travelling in excess of the speed limit with no real excuse, he issued you with a suitable infringement notice for a nominal fee, set to teach you a lesson, which you dully scooted off to the court house, or council offices and paid. That money was then transferred into the Main Roads Account where it was spent on improving your roads. As time passed and more and more cars appeared on our roads, more and more money started accumulating into the Main Roads Account until one day a smarty Politician noticed this small fortune and decided that money really should be sitting in the general Revenue Account so he could get his greedy little hands on it and that Ladies and Gentlemen, as they say, is where it all went to - - - - well the toilet!! (this is a nice forum after all). The Police could not bring in the revenue at the required pace any more, as they were being snowed under with loads of paperwork and people who felt wronged and wanted a day in court, so other means had to be found. Enter the dreaded Speed Camera. A machine devoid of human emotion, a machine that would work 24/7, in rain, hail, snow or sunshine. A licence to print money.

The End.

A scary thought for you, just to finish off. Where is the Government going to reap these Millions of Dollars from in the years to come, once we are forced into the driver-less cars we are told are coming? Frightening isn't it?

Originally Posted by trout1105

I may have been somewhat harsh But speeding is not only a crime it has been proved to cause accidents and deaths.
Try telling a parent of a child that has been run down by a speeding car that speeding is not that serious and the coppers are just using it as an excuse to raise revenue
We all know that speeding is dangerous and we all know it is illegal and yet many of us still speed.
I myself am NO angel in this regard and I have been busted on a few occasions that have cost me money and demerit points that left me feeling stupid for speeding in the first place.

Sadly most of the so called proof of the effects of small infringements is an absolute lie. Apart from the fact that there was never any evidence of even one death caused by speeding at schools before the 40kmh limit was imposed, there was a complete and deliberate misinterpretation of the famous 5kmh over the limit rubbish. The reseaRch DID NOT show that AT ALL. The claim by TAC that 5kmh over 'the limit' (which limit was never specified) would "double the risk of an accident" was a complete lie. There was however some unproven suggestion mentioned that IF an accident occurred at some undetermined excess speed there would be a greater chance of injury. That is nowhere near the same thing. At some point using their logic there would be a 100% chance of an accident. Insane.
Since apparently 'we all know' that speeding is dangerous it would be good to know what 'speeding' is. Certainly if we all believe the speed limits set you might be right but Vicroads has no scientific basis for the speeds they set.
They simply have the power so use it. No-one reviews their opinions and no one can question them. There is plenty of evidence that speed cannot kill......it is the need to stop quickly which causes accidents. Simply reducing speed limits has failed miserably in the pursuit of safety. Europe has shown beyond any doubt that 130kmh is just as safe on highways but our lot insist that we become inattentive and sleepy.. confident in the fact that we are driving safely. Figures do show beyond any doubt that sleepiness causes accidents.

Ironically the speed camera was invented by a Dutch rally driver who wanted a device to monitor and record his cornering speed so that he could find improvements to his technique i.e. go faster.

After that the Swedes took the idea and used it on a horror stretch of autobahn where winter fogs would render visibilty to virtually zero. Frequent multi-car pile ups with horrendous numbers of injuries and deaths per year in this stretch of road saw them introduce a camera with a BIG sign saying something like... 'visibility bad, slow down or be booked'. Guess what, it worked. Crash numbers dropped as did the fatalities and injuries. This is the proper intention of these devices in the efforts of road safety.

Since then they have been co-opted to raise money in the 'guise' of road safety. As has been said many times before, road safety is a multifaceted issue and concentrating mostly on speed is erroneous. About a decade ago the head of the English police force on his retirement was asked what was the greatest thing about speed cameras and his response was - 'creating a dumber breed of driver'.....

Originally Posted by cripesamighty

After that the Swedes took the idea and used it on a horror stretch of autobahn where winter fogs would render visibilty to virtually zero. Frequent multi-car pile ups with horrendous numbers of injuries and deaths per year in this stretch of road saw them introduce a camera with a BIG sign saying something like... 'visibility bad, slow down or be booked'. Guess what, it worked. Crash numbers dropped as did the fatalities and injuries. This is the proper intention of these devices in the efforts of road safety.

Since then they have been co-opted to raise money in the 'guise' of road safety. As has been said many times before, road safety is a multifaceted issue and concentrating mostly on speed is erroneous. About a decade ago the head of the English police force on his retirement was asked what was the greatest thing about speed cameras and his response was - 'creating a dumber breed of driver'.....

Yes but all speed cameras in the UK are very clearly marked as such. They are all painted bright yellow and mobile speed cameras aren't allowed to 'hide' behind bushes, billboards etc so they are primarily intended as a deterrent. If you believe you are an attentive and observant enough driver to exceed the posted speed limit you should be able to spot a speed camera well enough in advance not to get caught.

I have felt for a long time that fines imposed for a lot of infringements don't really match the crime.
Nice little earner though.

For example look at the fines for possessing an unregistered firearm. I think it is $10,000+ AND jail time.
This resonates with me because I was clearing out a shed here after I moved in and found a .22 rifle.
Local cop was very close to charging me when I walked in with it.

Terry

Originally Posted by rover-56

Local cop was very close to charging me when I walked in with it.

Terry

You sure he wasn't close to shooting you? After all, that's the Victoria Police motto - Shoot first, ask questions later.

The top cop was talking about not only the UK but other places as well. I'm pretty sure he visited Australia at least once during his tenure. He preferred peoples attention to be outside the vehicle judging road conditions rather than looking back inside at your speedo every few seconds worrying that you might creep a few km's over the limit and then cop a fine.

When I was still at uni one of my statistics lectures was called 'lies, damned lies and statistics'. You guessed it, we analysed road stats and Govt claims for their policies from several different countries. Needless to say they all massaged their figures (ie. combining statistical variables to enhance or decrease an expected outcome) or outright lied to justify a course of action. A lot of the effective ideas were put in the too hard basket as that meant it was a long term gain so useless to politicians in their short term election cycle, ie education, proper driver training, an honest look at ways to reduce road dangers (ie increasing the speed limit in marked overtaking areas on country roads to reduce time spent overtaking).

Note that this was around 10 years ago so I have forgotten a lot of the details, but I do remember I wasn't a happy camper when I saw the manipulation first hand. We used our own Govt's raw data (obtained from a friend of our lecturer who worked in Canberra) rather than the official figures which we saw were slightly doctored in various ways as they appeared in the ABS. I doubt that we will ever see an honest debate about this though as there are just too many vested interests. I just stick to the limit as much as humanly possible and try and keep my head on a swivel to avoid as many hazards as possible!