Thread: Crisis in the bush. Drought forcing graziers to consider doing the unthinkable

Originally Posted by Bigbjorn

Couple of problems with that. Social Security law provides a definition for "suitable employment" and job seekers can not be directed to unsuitable employment. Suitable employment is within 1 1/2 hours travel, pays a fair award wage and award conditions, is conducted at reasonable hours, can be performed by the job seeker without injuring themselves or aggravating any illness or disability they may suffer.

Second problem. This smacks of civil conscription. The Qld. government thought of this in the 1950's when faced with a serious shortfall of harvest labour in the sugar industry. They received legal advice that this idea was almost certainly unconstitutional and political advice that this would be so unpopular the government would not survive an election. The sugar industry had doubled since the war's end and would double again by 1960. Cane cutting was hot, heavy, dirty work in the North Qld. climate and few stuck to it. The decision was taken to finance development of mechanical harvesting as a matter of extreme urgency and necessity.

Tell all that to the men who carried their swags to all parts of the country looking for work during the great depression. No dole, just " sustenance ". And the sugar cane industry in Qld? Kanakas did the early labour, in effect slaves bought in from close by Pacific Islands. After that the industry was kept going by Italian immigrants ,whose descendants are still strongly represented in the far north.

Originally Posted by JDNSW

I'm not sure there ever was! Certainly not in my experience, which really only goes back about sixty years since I started paying any attention to it.

This should get your attention.

The Arctic's oldest and thickest ice has started breaking

I was aware of that - but there is no demonstrable relation between climate change and reliability of seasonal predictions. Seasonal predictions or long range weather forecasting operates on a time scale of months, climate operates on a timescale of decades or centuries. Since seasonal variability and unpredictability has been thoroughly documented over the last two hundred years, while the well documented climate change is predicted to increase this variability, it will inevitably be many decades before this can be confirmed. And the seasons will probably be no more predictable than they are now.

The current drought is claimed to be one of the worst on record, but the previous ones in the same category are the one just after European settlement (but not good records), the Federation drought, and the WW2 drought, maybe the Millennium drought. There are not enough data points to be meaningful. That this drought follows so soon after the Millennium drought may indicate these sort of droughts are getting more common - but two points don't make a trend.

Originally Posted by RANDLOVER

I think some of the previous "sell up/go bust" posts are a bit harsh, as I believe surveys have shown that most Aus households are only a few pay cheques away from going bankrupt. Also although most of Australia think they are part of a capitalist society, farmers are dealing with capitalism in it's most naked form i.e you get paid for what you produce, it would be a different story if everyone was paid that way i.e so many cents for each widget made, email sent, form filled out at work etc. with no allowance made for weather, fuel prices, forex variations, etc.

This is true, however I would like to know how many of these same households are living beyond their means simply because of unnecessary spending,
I.e. 2 adults with $1200 phones, on the drip..
A $65000.00 twin cab Ute also on the drip, designer clothes that they need to have so they "fit in"
a meal out every week that ends up costing $200 for a family of 4,
a 70" flat screen TV, 10 purchased coffees each week for $5 a go....
Now I'm not saying there is anything wrong with these things, IF YOU CAN AFFORD THEM,
but the trouble is many can't, but for some reason it is now our birthright to be able to do this, and if we can't, we start screaming injustice, and that we are living below the poverty line,
As I mentioned before, the economy used to be based on food, as it is needed for survival, now it's electronic gadgets, and keeping up with the joneses...

And I've just realized how badly this thread had been hijacked, and I'm part of the problem

Originally Posted by bob10

Tell all that to the men who carried their swags to all parts of the country looking for work during the great depression. No dole, just " sustenance ". And the sugar cane industry in Qld? Kanakas did the early labour, in effect slaves bought in from close by Pacific Islands. After that the industry was kept going by Italian immigrants whose descendants are still strongly represented in the far north.

Bob, there was not "dole" as we know it until the responsibility was taken on by the Commonwealth as part of wartime regulations controlling the distribution of labour. The infamous Manpower Administration. Responsibility for the unemployed (and unmarried mothers) rested with the states. The states generally did not pay any "dole" in cash money but in "relief work" and ration coupons issued at a police station. As for carrying their swags "looking for work" when there was none to be found. Ration coupons could not be issued twice running at the same outlet and single men had to travel around to get their rations. Border police stations in NSW were noted for sending interstaters back across the border to avoid them becoming a charge on the NSW purse. Relief work was seldom given to single men.

Not just Italians/Sicilians but many other ethnic groups were brought here to work in the sugar harvest. Look at the number of Maltese names around Mackay, the Danish and German names in Bundaberg, Maryborough, Childers, Rocky Point mill areas. There was the notorious case in the 1950's where immigration agents of the Qld. government recruited a considerable number of young Maltese men and shipped a whole liner load into Cairns to be canefield labour. Thus bypassing the major east coast ports and hopefully preventing the workers being siphoned off to more amenable employment. To no avail, as within a short period of time hardly any of them could be found. All were in Sydney and Melbourne. The ethnic groupings were commonly the result of bad times in their home country. Wars, revolutions, famine, high unemployment, religious discrimination and so on.

Originally Posted by shack

This is true, however I would like to know how many of these same households are living beyond their means simply because of unnecessary spending,
I.e. 2 adults with $1200 phones, on the drip..
A $65000.00 twin cab Ute also on the drip, designer clothes that they need to have so they "fit in"
a meal out every week that ends up costing $200 for a family of 4,
a 70" flat screen TV, 10 purchased coffees each week for $5 a go....
Now I'm not saying there is anything wrong with these things, IF YOU CAN AFFORD THEM,
but the trouble is many can't, but for some reason it is now our birthright to be able to do this, and if we can't, we start screaming injustice, and that we are living below the poverty line,
As I mentioned before, the economy used to be based on food, as it is needed for survival, now it's electronic gadgets, and keeping up with the joneses...

And I've just realized how badly this thread had been hijacked, and I'm part of the problem

I don't think you've hijacked the thread...it's all relative. One of the reasons farmers are doing it tough is related to consumption in general, tight profit margins, fluctuating markets and the low prices we all expect to pay for food. Affordability of food is affected by affordability of everything else (and expectations about what we should all be able to 'afford' as you say above).

If Farmers weren't so squeezed on price by supermarkets / consumers, they would perhaps be better able to factor in a financial buffer for the hard times.

But then it's also similar for many other business/industries who don't have access to 'drought relief' when the market or the conditions don't suit the ideal. ...An example many may not have thought of: the arts and cultural industries have been going through what might be called a funding/financial 'drought', caused by many factors which don't seem to make sense in such a wealthy community as Australia. The arts is actually one of Australia's biggest employers, including visual art, all performing arts, festivals, film, tv, huge amounts of online content, graphic design, etc

Government and public priorities change and because industries are so market driven (ie: wanting what already exists) it can be very difficult to find the resources to innovate and make new things, whether it's experimental art - which leads to excellence and innovation in the film, tv and broader entertainment industries and our cultural sustenance; Or developing new drought resistant crops and systems for producing food - which leads to a more reliable sources for our nutritional sustenance.

Our food choices and expectations in this country are also perhaps unrealistic at times. Many cultures around the world have lived through feast or famine situations, depending on what is available. Our expectation that ripe tomatoes and t-bone steaks should be available at anytime of the day or the year is not realistic either. Consumers have a big role to play in their food choices, just as they do in terms of their technology/netflix/stan/movie/cultural & entertainment choices.

Going out for dinner once a week not only sustains (often local) food growers, but also chefs, waitstaff, suppliers, etc etc. Whereas buying cheap ingredients at a big supermarket might help the personal hip pocket in the short term, but in the long term it might be making the food supply chain in Australia unsustainable and unable to survive what is the double reality of living on this continent: 80% desert and droughts will always be part of life.

+ global warming is real. ...in Tasmania for example, wineries are even beginning to plant warmer climate grapes. A necessary food source for survival? No. ...But culturally and economically wine is huge in Australia. The wine industry goes through climate based ups and downs too. I don't know...has there ever been a poor wine grape season bailout by the government?

Originally Posted by Bigbjorn

Bob, there was not "dole" as we know it until the responsibility was taken on by the Commonwealth as part of wartime regulations controlling the distribution of labour. The infamous Manpower Administration. Responsibility for the unemployed (and unmarried mothers) rested with the states. The states generally did not pay any "dole" in cash money but in "relief work" and ration coupons issued at a police station. As for carrying their swags "looking for work" when there was none to be found. Ration coupons could not be issued twice running at the same outlet and single men had to travel around to get their rations. Border police stations in NSW were noted for sending interstaters back across the border to avoid them becoming a charge on the NSW purse. Relief work was seldom given to single men.

Not just Italians/Sicilians but many other ethnic groups were brought here to work in the sugar harvest. Look at the number of Maltese names around Mackay, the Danish and German names in Bundaberg, Maryborough, Childers, Rocky Point mill areas. There was the notorious case in the 1950's where immigration agents of the Qld. government recruited a considerable number of young Maltese men and shipped a whole liner load into Cairns to be canefield labour. Thus bypassing the major east coast ports and hopefully preventing the workers being siphoned off to more amenable employment. To no avail, as within a short period of time hardly any of them could be found. All were in Sydney and Melbourne. The ethnic groupings were commonly the result of bad times in their home country. Wars, revolutions, famine, high unemployment, religious discrimination and so on.

Their was a small army of swaggies in Qld, travelling to relief work provided by the Qld Government. There was also a fund supplied by the Government, workers and employees, to give sustenance to the unemployed, started in 1922.


Depression era | Queensland Historical Atlas

Originally Posted by Bigbjorn

Bob, there was not "dole" as we know it until the responsibility was taken on by the Commonwealth as part of wartime regulations controlling the distribution of labour. The infamous Manpower Administration. Responsibility for the unemployed (and unmarried mothers) rested with the states. The states generally did not pay any "dole" in cash money but in "relief work" and ration coupons issued at a police station. As for carrying their swags "looking for work" when there was none to be found. Ration coupons could not be issued twice running at the same outlet and single men had to travel around to get their rations. Border police stations in NSW were noted for sending interstaters back across the border to avoid them becoming a charge on the NSW purse. Relief work was seldom given to single men.

Not just Italians/Sicilians but many other ethnic groups were brought here to work in the sugar harvest. Look at the number of Maltese names around Mackay, the Danish and German names in Bundaberg, Maryborough, Childers, Rocky Point mill areas. There was the notorious case in the 1950's where immigration agents of the Qld. government recruited a considerable number of young Maltese men and shipped a whole liner load into Cairns to be canefield labour. Thus bypassing the major east coast ports and hopefully preventing the workers being siphoned off to more amenable employment. To no avail, as within a short period of time hardly any of them could be found. All were in Sydney and Melbourne. The ethnic groupings were commonly the result of bad times in their home country. Wars, revolutions, famine, high unemployment, religious discrimination and so on.

History of the sugar industry, Qld.

The History of the Sugar Industry | Australian Sugar Heritage Centre