Goodnight Diesel. ...Land Rover get your EV skates on!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by scarry

Mate,anyone could do this,could do that,yes they do this somewhere,Bla,Bla.

Where are the actual current draws that the Ev's take to charge?

Same as an AC is a load of garbage,what size ac,what type?

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Actually, someone actually posted an answer to your question earlier in this thread, but here it is again:




" #6 – The electricity grid cannot handle the load of all electric cars!
During normal charging at nighttime, an electric car does not use a lot of electricity.
http://teslaclubsweden.se/wp-content.../tesla_2kW.jpg
Origin of the myth: People have fuzzy ideas about how much current an electric car draws. Many thinks that the need for installing a special home charger is because electric cars draw too much current while being charged. That might be true in the US with their 110V outlets, but not here in Europe with our 230V ones.
Why the myth is incorrect: While charging electric cars draw about the same current as comparable household appliances.
If you have driven 100 kilometers during a day, your electric car will have consumed about 20kWh of electricity. It is these 20 kWh you need to recharge back into its batteries at night. If you charge your car from 21:00 to 07:00 the next morning you have 10 hours to recharge 20kWh – that equals to 2kW of effect. That is the same effect and current an electric radiator uses.
Also, an average house uses 2500 kWh less energy this year than it did in the ’90s. All those energy efficient kitchenware you have bought since then saves as much electricity combined as an electric car uses. If you buy an electric car your household will consume as much electricity again as it did in the 90’s. The power grid managed it then, and it will manage it now as well. "

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zeros

It’s only just begun....and it will happen faster than we can imagine.

RIVIAN

Rivian

SUV – Rivian

BOLLINGER

Bollinger Motors | Bollinger Motors

...Inc, time for a new EV section in both LR and non LR vehicles sections?

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Ford will build them too:

Ford Says An Electric F-150 Is Coming | CleanTechnica

Quote:

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Originally Posted by scarry

Your comparing a country like Norway to Aus?

I wonder if their top selling vehicles are diesel dual cab utes?

As i have said before,EV will suit some,but many will stay with ICE,that is if they are available,and they will be.

EV won't suit everyone,one of the main issues is providing the infrastructure to charge them all.

There is basically no infrastructure to charge millions of vehicles ATM,and its not going to suddenly appear overnight.

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Of course there are some differences between Norway and Australia, but when it comes to cars, I can assure you that utes (or their more modern variety, the 'SUV'), are very popular even in Scandinavia. Or have been, until the governments decided to 'tax them off the road', so to speak. In Australia, in the inner city districts and 'burbs, utes are decidedly less common than in rural areas. The same applies to our regions here.
If you are concerned about the non-availability of this type of vehicle with an all-electric drive train, this is only a matter of time. Check out threads about the 'Rivian' elsewhere on this forum. There are other vehicles following suit and I would be surprised if Land Rover themselves would not come up with one soon. Tesla have their own 'pick-up truck' in the pipeline, rumours have been going on for a while. Expect it to turn up somewhen after Model Y is in production.

As for the infrastructure, it's already there! Any power outlet will do! I am sure most of you will have access to a socket on their premises. A standard socket in the wall will suffice for your usual driving needs, if you are not a long distance driver, in which case a three-phase will make sense. Usually, this should not be too difficult to install. Fast charging stations will only be needed for long distance driving and are popping upp almost everywhere here in Europe. If you take a look at Tesla's website and are checking out their ever expanding Supercharger network you may get an idea. Other actors are on the market as well. You in Australia even have two definite advantages: space and sunshine. With some solar panels set up in the outback, charging stations even in remote locations will be feasible. Not more complicated than that.

I bought my Tesla 4 years ago, not because I was sold on an EV, only because it made most sense economically. I was as sceptical as you are now and did not believe at all in the concept. Looking for the catch each and everywhere, I have not found it yet. After about one year I was convinced and now I am not looking back at all. My next vehicle will be an EV again. Of course I will stick to my trusty Land Rovers as long as it is legally and economically possible, but in case one of the engines or gear boxes fails I definitely will consider an EV conversion. As all engines are in good nick, it may take a while, though.

I suggest you are reading this article as many of your doubts and questions will get busted:
EV-myths BUSTED!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Arapiles

Actually, someone actually posted an answer to your question earlier in this thread, but here it is again:




" #6 – The electricity grid cannot handle the load of all electric cars!
During normal charging at nighttime, an electric car does not use a lot of electricity.
http://teslaclubsweden.se/wp-content.../tesla_2kW.jpg
Origin of the myth: People have fuzzy ideas about how much current an electric car draws. Many thinks that the need for installing a special home charger is because electric cars draw too much current while being charged. That might be true in the US with their 110V outlets, but not here in Europe with our 230V ones.
Why the myth is incorrect: While charging electric cars draw about the same current as comparable household appliances.
If you have driven 100 kilometers during a day, your electric car will have consumed about 20kWh of electricity. It is these 20 kWh you need to recharge back into its batteries at night. If you charge your car from 21:00 to 07:00 the next morning you have 10 hours to recharge 20kWh – that equals to 2kW of effect. That is the same effect and current an electric radiator uses.
Also, an average house uses 2500 kWh less energy this year than it did in the ’90s. All those energy efficient kitchenware you have bought since then saves as much electricity combined as an electric car uses. If you buy an electric car your household will consume as much electricity again as it did in the 90’s. The power grid managed it then, and it will manage it now as well. "

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More European figures,not relevant to Aus.
In Australia,the introduction of AC units to nearly every home in the last 20yrs wouldn't have helped reduce power consumption,i wouldn't have thought,particularly in northern regions.

This article says roughly what I have posted.










https://i1.wp.com/pixel.tcog.cp1.new...the-australianTesla workforce cuts ‘to make cars cheaper’
https://cdn.newsapi.com.au/image/v1/...3cfa?width=650Tesla electric cars are charged at a Tesla Supercharger station in London.

• By Tim Higgins
• An hour ago January 19, 2019
• 10 Comments

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Tesla plans to eliminate 7% of its full-time workforce, the auto maker’s second round of job cuts in a year as it tries to maintain profitability while lowering the price of its Model 3 sedan.

The maker of electric vehicles has been jacking up production of the Model 3 while chasing its long-held dream of selling it at $US35,000 ($AU48,000) to make it a mainstream sedan. Chief Executive Elon Musk, in a memo early Friday reviewed by The Wall Street Journal, told employees preliminary results show Tesla made a profit in the final three months, albeit a smaller one than in the third quarter.
This quarter, Tesla hopefully can achieve “a tiny profit,” he said, but it will entail “great difficulty, effort and some luck.” The memo was later posted to Tesla’s website.

Shares of the Palo Alto, Calif., company sank about 13% in Friday trading following the announcement.
Mr. Musk said Tesla is contending with the phasing-out of U.S. federal tax credit for buyers of its electric vehicles, which is increasing pressure on the company to lower prices. That credit had been worth $7,500 last year, and was cut in half to $3,750 on Jan 1.
Under federal law, the tax credits are available for the first 200,000 vehicles sold in the U.S. by an auto maker, a threshold Tesla reached during last year. The credit is then reduced by 50% every six months until it is phased out.
“The need for a lower priced variants of Model 3 becomes even greater on July 1, when the U.S. tax credit again drops in half, making our car $1,875 more expensive, and again at the end of the year when it goes away entirely,” Mr. Musk said in the memo.
The compact sedan is Mr. Musk’s bet Tesla can evolve from a niche luxury player into an auto maker offering a more affordable car to mainstream buyers.
That effort, however, has been hampered by Tesla’s inability to offer the car at the long-promised price of $35,000. The least-expensive version starts at $44,000, after Tesla lowered prices of all of its vehicles by $2,000 in early January.
The average U.S. price paid for a new vehicle was about $32,500 last year, up from $29,300 five years ago, according to J.D. Power.
The layoffs will affect about 3,200 of the 45,000 workers Tesla says it has. Mr. Musk said Friday the full-time employees head count grew by 30% last year, “which is more than we can support.”
The layoffs follow a workforce reduction of 9% in June last year during a make-or-break period as Tesla tried to increase production of the Model 3 after months of delays.
Tesla is cutting jobs even as it plans to increase Model 3 production further in coming months, Mr. Musk said in the memo. He cautioned “the road ahead is very difficult.”
“Higher volume and manufacturing design improvements are crucial for Tesla to achieve the economies of scale required to manufacture” the base $35,000 Model 3 “and still be a viable company,” he said. “There isn’t any other way.”
Tesla’s production struggles last year focused attention on its limited cash balance and Mr. Musk’s desire to avoid issuing new shares or taking on additional debt. The third quarter’s strong results and improved cash totaling $3 billion helped relieve some of that pressure. Mr. Musk reiterated in October his desire not raise additional cash, telling analysts the company planned to pay off its debt without having to refinance.
https://cdn.newsapi.com.au/image/v1/...a415?width=650Tesla CEO Elon Musk.
Cash could return to the spotlight with a $920 million convertible bond due on March 1. For the conversion to equity to occur, Tesla’s average share price needs to be at $359.87 or higher for 20 consecutive trading days. Friday’s closing price was $302.26.
In October, Tesla reported a record third-quarter profit of $311.5 million, surprising analysts and giving new confidence to investors who had weathered a turbulent year. Wall Street had expected a loss.
In his memo—sent at 1:20 a.m. in California, where the company is based—Mr. Musk said the profit was partly due to the sale of higher-priced versions of the Model 3 in North America. Analysts surveyed by FactSet estimated the average selling price during the period at $59,000 for the small car, which competes against the BMW 3 Series and Mercedes-Benz C-Class.
Tesla aims to begin delivering the Model 3 in Europe and Asia this quarter. Similar to how it began sales in the U.S., Tesla plans to start with a higher-priced version in those markets.
Analysts surveyed by FactSet on average before Friday’s announcement had predicted that Tesla’s profit in the fourth quarter would fall to $1.39 a share from $1.75 in the third quarter.
Tesla’s earnings could face pressure later in the year, when the company introduces the lower-priced Model 3 in those foreign markets and the U.S. tax credit disappears.
The challenge of manufacturing the Model 3, which began production in July 2017, has weighed on Tesla and its CEO. Mr. Musk surprised investors in August by announcing on Twitter he was considering taking Tesla private and had secured funding for such a deal. Shares at the time soared before falling days later as it became clear Mr. Musk didn’t have a deal finalized.
U.S. securities regulators accused him of misleading investors and sought to bar him from serving as a director or officer of any publicly traded company. He settled with the Securities and Exchange Commission in a deal that allowed him to remain CEO but relinquish his chairman role for three years. Tesla was also required to add two additional independent board members.
- Wall Street Journal











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GM USA recently stopped producing ICE & hybrid cars, announcing that they are concentrating on the truck market. In reality they stopped producing ICE cars to transition to 100% Electric .

And now Electric 'pickups' too

GM CEO Mary Barra says 'stay tuned' about something to compete with Tesla Pickup truck - Electrek

Quote:

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Originally Posted by scarry

More European figures,not relevant to Aus.
In Australia,the introduction of AC units to nearly every home in the last 20yrs wouldn't have helped reduce power consumption,i wouldn't have thought,particularly in northern regions.

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I'd suggest that 2kwh is the same amount of electricity everywhere in the world.

Our electrical networks are coping with the current demands, whether they're higher or lower than they used to be they. If they weren't then we'd be continually in blackouts or brownouts and we're not. Our systems will cope with EVs.

And the rapid growth of solar is boosting electricity production. Add batteries to home solar and the EV can be charged at home without drawing on the grid at all.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DiscoMick

And the rapid growth of solar is boosting electricity production. Add batteries to home solar and the EV can be charged at home without drawing on the grid at all.

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Correct,but thats a very general assumption,there are a lot of variables.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by goingbush

Paul, you are gobbling up the anti EV propaganda as fact. So much BS out there.

My 5Kw PV array provides enough power for my house , plus all the power my Electric Car needs, plus around $250 in FIT credit.

I have a DIY LandRover conversion and it has a "J1772 Nozzle" Teslas do not. I did 5500km last year @ 28kwh per 100km = yearly consumption of 1540kwh . From Jan '18 to Jan '19 (FYI 28kwh /100km for a 1500kg vehicle is not very efficient , A 2500kg Tesla uses about 22kwh per 100km.) My E-Landy has a 3.3kw charger & plugs into a 15A point, draws 13.5 Amps .


5kw PV array produced 6387kw for the last 4 quarters .
After EV charging left 4947kw. 4560kwh household use & $0.71 FIT = $274 credit .

So I put more back into the network than what I used.

You talk about those 300 people you referred to in a hypothetical housing block, I don't believe that is a typical Australian situation, is more like China and they have no problems dealing with such demand. Typically accomodation like that is not for commuters more like public transport to work. Cruise around China in Google Earth and you will easily find solar farms like this Google Maps


Anyway bottom line its about choices, your choice is to continue buy petrol , I'm fine with that . I also have a petrol car and a Diesel 4x4 , but they only get used when I have to drive a round trip more than 80km. neither of them have been driven more that 350km on any single day , and then only 3 occasions in the last 12 months. ( Any modern EV can cope with that )

Typically I do about 25km a day in my E-Landy and charge once every 2 or 3 days . 10 million people doing the same as me are not going to put a burden on the Electrical Grid , How many people will be doing an Interstate run every day , 1000 ?? 5000 ?? who knows but I'm pretty sure the grid can cope with them . Moreso , especially now that theres no Automotive Industry and bugger all Manufacturing of any type in Australia , the grid used to cope with that load.

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Good to hear from someone with real life experience,in Aus.
A lot of the for and against EV stuff is overseas,and not really relevant,vague,and inaccurate.

Looking at your figures,and in Tesla data,13.5 amps is around the same,Tesla say for 6 to 7 hours to charge,but don't list from what SOC.
Thats more than a 9Kw late model inverter wall split system AC unit,running flat out.
And the charger will run constantly,where the Ac will normally ramp up and down,or even cycle at times.

So a substantial amount of power,particularly if two EV's were to be charged,which could easily happen in a normal household.

Your K's are also reasonably low,many households would do a lot more,particularly work vehicles,that would still need charging at home.

As for the grid coping with the load,in Qld,every summer,up until the last three yrs,we continually had power issues during periods of hot weather due to the power load from AC units.Unless something drastically changes,maybe this could happen again due to charging EV's,which is why i was mentioning infrastructure.And Ev's will need charging every day,all year around,not just in hot weather.
Sure,manufacturing has dropped off,although there wasn't too much here,in Qld,but our population has had massive growth.
Then as others have said there is the impact of solar,and also people being more power usage conscious.

As for blocks of units,they are popping up everywhere here,not just innercity,but also in outer suburbs,where people need cars to get around.Charging Ev's in these existing complexes will definitely need mains power upgrades,which is again infrastructure.

Solar and batteries will work for some,at home,but many don't have it for whatever reason.

EV's will definitely suit some,but for many,in their current form, they just won't suit,for numerous reasons.
ICE will be around for a long time yet,and will definitely be available new for many years to come.
As EV technology gets better,they will definitely get more popular,but who knows what will happen in years to come.

Hopefully ICE R&D will be ongoing and doesn't drop off completely, due to the huge investment auto companies are now doing on EV's.