Goodnight Diesel. ...Land Rover get your EV skates on!

Every servo / roadhouse in the country will have a bank of rapid EV chargers by 2024.

Hybrids will sell well for 5 years as the changeover occurs, but by 2025 the growth in EV demand will outstrip Hybrid / ICE vehicles.

Prices will come into line. Inflation in wealthy countries like Australia and government subsidies to quell climate fears will see to that. Rapid new technology adoption is now a blind assumption. 5 years is a long time in this field. The biggest risk to the EV market over the next 5 years is rapid redundancy. This is why Hybrids will be the go to for a while. But the manufacturers that build in processor upgradability will become the leaders.

By the way, Teslas are luxury vehicles. When the big car companies launch the vehicles they are developing now, Tesla will remain a luxury niche. Land Rover are positioned for the luxury niche too. Most Land Rovers are no longer affordable for the general market. They are luxury items. But the rapid advancement of EV tech is the reason for the delay in launching the new Defender IMO. It needed to be capable of becoming an EV within 5 years, so they put it on hold. Way back in 2015 this was not even part of the equation.

Disco 5 was ready to go and they needed the shape change to make way for Defender (D4) clone. Disco 6 will be an EV and Defender will be available as a Hybrid / EV. This is just the tip of the rapid EV development iceberg (pardon the pun).

ICE will continue to be strong in the second hand market for 10 years, but after that they will become collectors items unsuitable as daily drivers for the majority. There is no way I would buy a new ICE vehicle now.

It will be interesting to revisit this thread in five years!

So, I was in Japan over Christmas/New Year and I called into Nissan's flagship showroom in Ginza (which apparently, they now call "Nissan Crossing"). They always have new or concept vehicles here. This time it was a GTR, a GTR concept and relevantly to this thread, two electric race cars: a Nismo Leaf and a Formula E race car. They also had car seats hung on a robotic arm and VR goggles you could experience a fast lap in a Nismo Leaf. I also picked up some brochures on the e-Note and e-Serena.

NISSAN:NISSAN CROSSING

Nissan unleashes all-new LEAF NISMO RC electric race car - Global Newsroom

If you're in Tokyo it's worth checking out.

Nissan's current electric vehicle line-up:

NISSAN JAPAN

The e-Powers are a type of hybrid, with a small battery and an ICE but the ICE only charges the battery - like a permanent range-extender. But they claim that it's much more economical than running an ICE alone. Sadly, since they don't even sell the Y62 Patrol in Japan, I doubt it will ever make its way into a off-road capable 4WD.

From an EV point of view it demonstrates that Nissan is putting money into EVs. It's also worth remembering that Prius was, apparently, for big chunks of the last few years, the best selling car in Japan (it's currently second) and that Nissan also sell a lot of Leafs.

Nissan LEAF Sales Up 1,292% In Japan In September 2018

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Originally Posted by scarry

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FFS,if you think the infrastructure is already in place,your really showing your ignorance.These vehicles aren't just a portable appliance,like toaster or a vacuum cleaner,that can be plugged into a power point,and use a small amount of power for a few minutes. They use a huge amount of power,and there will be millions of them,supposedly.

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This concern is apparently a furphy - the draw per house would be no more than running an air conditioner, and our systems have been coping with that for the last week or two.

Also, as as example, this is how they do it in Japan - although this website is in Japanese, I think that it's easy enough to follow what's happening?

スマートハウス｜住宅・ハウスメーカーのトヨタホーム

You buy a factory-built home from Toyota. Yes, they also build homes. In factories. Your home has a roof covered in high capacity solar panels (about 10kw/h in the house pictured).

シンセ・グレートソーラー平屋｜住宅・ハウスメーカーのトヨタホーム

Inside the house there is battery storage and management system ("HEMS"). It also has co-generation heat pumps. When you come home in your car you plug your car into a high speed charger already installed as part of the home build. It runs off your solar or the mains. When the power goes off you run the house off the batteries and the car. Simples.

All of this stuff is doable now on any home - if I put a battery on my house and a charger I'd already be there.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Arapiles

This concern is apparently a furphy - the draw per house would be no more than running an air conditioner, and our systems have been coping with that for the last week or two.

Also, as as example, this is how they do it in Japan - although this website is in Japanese, I think that it's easy enough to follow what's happening?

スマートハウス｜住宅・ハウスメーカーのトヨタホーム

You buy a factory-built home from Toyota. Yes, they also build homes. In factories. Your home has a roof covered in high capacity solar panels (about 10kw/h in the house pictured).

シンセ・グレートソーラー平屋｜住宅・ハウスメーカーのトヨタホーム

Inside the house there is battery storage and management system ("HEMS"). It also has co-generation heat pumps. When you come home in your car you plug your car into a high speed charger already installed as part of the home build. It runs off your solar or the mains. When the power goes off you run the house off the batteries and the car. Simples.

All of this stuff is doable now on any home - if I put a battery on my house and a charger I'd already be there.

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Mate,anyone could do this,could do that,yes they do this somewhere,Bla,Bla.

Where are the actual current draws that the Ev's take to charge?

Same as an AC is a load of garbage,what size ac,what type?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by scarry

[/COLOR]

FFS,if you think the infrastructure is already in place,your really showing your ignorance.These vehicles aren't just a portable appliance,like toaster or a vacuum cleaner,that can be plugged into a power point,and use a small amount of power for a few minutes.

They use a huge amount of power,and there will be millions of them,supposedly.

EDIT have a look at this,on an Australian site,

"Simply insert the J1772 nozzle in one end the and the other in your Tesla and you will be able to charge at up to 7.6kw or 30-40 kms of range per hour. Beauty!"

That equates to around 31 amps/hour,which is a huge amount of power.

And the infrastructure is in place for this sort of power usage?

Just imagine a block of say 300 or so units,where half the units have one car each that needs charging overnight?

The average household in Aus has two vehicles,many have three.

So even the average domestic house mains may struggle.

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Paul, you are gobbling up the anti EV propaganda as fact. So much BS out there.

My 5Kw PV array provides enough power for my house , plus all the power my Electric Car needs, plus around $250 in FIT credit.

I have a DIY LandRover conversion and it has a "J1772 Nozzle" Teslas do not. I did 5500km last year @ 28kwh per 100km = yearly consumption of 1540kwh . From Jan '18 to Jan '19 (FYI 28kwh /100km for a 1500kg vehicle is not very efficient , A 2500kg Tesla uses about 22kwh per 100km.) My E-Landy has a 3.3kw charger & plugs into a 15A point, draws 13.5 Amps .


5kw PV array produced 6387kw for the last 4 quarters .
After EV charging left 4947kw. 4560kwh household use & $0.71 FIT = $274 credit .

So I put more back into the network than what I used.

You talk about those 300 people you referred to in a hypothetical housing block, I don't believe that is a typical Australian situation, is more like China and they have no problems dealing with such demand. Typically accomodation like that is not for commuters more like public transport to work. Cruise around China in Google Earth and you will easily find solar farms like this Google Maps


Anyway bottom line its about choices, your choice is to continue buy petrol , I'm fine with that . I also have a petrol car and a Diesel 4x4 , but they only get used when I have to drive a round trip more than 80km. neither of them have been driven more that 350km on any single day , and then only 3 occasions in the last 12 months. ( Any modern EV can cope with that )

Typically I do about 25km a day in my E-Landy and charge once every 2 or 3 days . 10 million people doing the same as me are not going to put a burden on the Electrical Grid , How many people will be doing an Interstate run every day , 1000 ?? 5000 ?? who knows but I'm pretty sure the grid can cope with them . Moreso , especially now that theres no Automotive Industry and bugger all Manufacturing of any type in Australia , the grid used to cope with that load.

Let's not predict the future. No one will know exactly when where and what

I think we all agree there will be more EVs coming into the market.
And also oil producers are scared ****less.
Just imagine how Saudi Arabia feels about a future with EVs everywhere Hahaha Muhahaha

Also if we can dig oil from an Islamic country in middle East for example and ship this liquid, decomposed Dino corpses that is, all the way across the globe, over the oceans to our servos and then into the fuel tank by our hands.

Yes some liquid all the way from middle East to here and into our fuel tank. If you think about it.
Don't you think it will be easier and cheaper to "ship" electricity around?

Cheeers

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Originally Posted by PhilipA

How come none of you "fan boys" have bought a Nissan Leaf.
They have been available for at least 6 years.
Come on, put your money where your mouth is, pay 28K for a useless car or you can buy a new 2019 model with a 250Km range for about 50K-60 K.

Regards Philip A
or is it that the idea of EVs is great "in principle" but not so attractive "in practice"
BTW Norway has extensive subsidies for purchase of EVs.
What’s put the spark in Norway’s electric car revolution? | Money | The Guardian

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You can't actually buy a new Nissan Leaf in Australia at the moment as the old model has stopped and the new model goes on sale in June.
When you buy a new EV you also get a charging point, usually 15amp but larger are available, to be installed in your house, so there are no charging difficulties.
If you already have a battery bank charged by solar, the Leaf's battery bank just is combined with the house's battery bank when connected.
For example, a house's 7 kw battery bank plus a Leaf's 40 kw battery bank gives a total of 47 kw, charged by solar, so basically the power is free.
The power can flow both ways so there may be times, such as late at night if the house's batteries have run low, when the Leaf's battery bank is powering the house.
This isn't theoretical, people are already doing it.

Tesla is planning to build a new vehicle known as Model Y, which will be a crossover with a hatch, similar to the Model S, costing slightly more.
Production will start in Tesla's Shanghai factory, alongside the S, with the aim being for that factory to build 500,000 vehicles a year, all for sale in China, which avoids Trump's trade war with China.
Tesla's USA factory is flat out building the S and Tesla has yet to announce where it will build the Y in the US.
So you can see why other vehicle manufacturer's see Tesla as such a threat.
The Tesla Model Y will be unveiled this year — here are the latest updates - MarketWatch

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You can't actually buy a new Nissan Leaf in Australia at the moment as the old model has stopped and the new model goes on sale in June.

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You could order one now. Do you currently have a second runabout? Go on you know you want to.

I was also interested to note that 70% of Norwegians with EVs also own an ICE car.

It seems even they are hedging their bets even though the subsidies for EVs are really enormous making them cheaper to buy and operate than an ICE car. Who wouldn't take advantage? I then wondered if Norway was getting some special deal from the makers of the EVs or whether they were just handing Norwegian taxes to the EV makers.

I read somewhere a while ago that Tesla Model S are most commonly a fifth family car in the USA.

This to me anyway suggests that reports of ICE 's death are rather premature.
Regards Philip A