Corona Virus

**JDNSW** · 15th June 2021, 07:22 PM

Originally Posted by Eevo

...........
the other problem is, unlike the vaccination for polio, the vaccination for covid will not lead to eradication.

That is exactly what was said about the diseases I was talking about, but perhaps not with the same inflection. Vaccination (as far as is documented) started with the use of vaccinia to vaccinate against smallpox about the end of the eighteenth century. There was no thought of eliminating the disease, but vaccination was a way of reducing its impact and most importantly, protecting the vaccinated individual.

The concept of actually eliminating a disease completely was never considered even as a dream until perhaps the 1950s, by which time smallpox had been effectively eliminated from a sufficiently large number of countries (by vaccination) that it was seen to be possible, and by dint of a major effort over decades it has become the only disease so far completely eliminated.

But do not lose sight of the fact that although total elimination worldwide is difficult or impossible (because the disease keeps mutating or because there is a wild animal reservoir) for most diseases, it has proved possible by a combination of vaccination and quarantine to largely eliminate quite a few diseases from large areas of the world. For example, Australia has successfully reduced the occurrence of a number of formerly epidemic diseases to very low levels. These include measles (airborne like covid, even more infectious than covid19 and about as deadly, but unlike covid, worse for children), pertussis, mumps, rubella, tuberculosis, polio, tetanus. For some diseases, providing safe water and improved food handling, or control of vectors such as fleas, mosquitoes etc have been more important, but for some these (e.g. typhoid, cholera, hepatitis) vaccines have still been a valuable tool to help Australia become largely free of them.

And vaccination passports are not new - I still have somewhere my yellow booklet that recorded vaccinations needed to reenter Australia after travel to some countries - I think Yellow Fever was the last one required, and that, for travel from the USA of all places.

**Eevo** · 15th June 2021, 08:47 PM

Originally Posted by JDNSW

That is exactly what was said about the diseases I was talking about, but perhaps not with the same inflection. Vaccination (as far as is documented) started with the use of vaccinia to vaccinate against smallpox about the end of the eighteenth century. There was no thought of eliminating the disease, but vaccination was a way of reducing its impact and most importantly, protecting the vaccinated individual.

yes but if covid is still transitable after the vaccine, will be impossible to eradicate. we just wont have symptoms (which is good)

**JDNSW** · 16th June 2021, 06:05 AM

Originally Posted by Eevo

yes but if covid is still transitable after the vaccine, will be impossible to eradicate. we just wont have symptoms (which is good)

Much seems to being made of the fact that it is still possible to be infected, but not show symptoms after being vaccinated for covid. This is in fact the same for virtually all vaccines, but in spite of this they are remarkably effective at stopping disease.

The highly publicised trials of the covid vaccines have been generally careful to claim only what is supported by trials data. Because it is almost impossible to actually measure how many (if any) of those vaccinated have been infected and passed on the virus, no claims for prevention of transmission can be made. Anti-vaccine activists have jumped on this with "See, the vaccines do not prevent transmission, so they are completely useless!!!"

Eventually, with mass vaccination, we will be able to make a good estimate of how effective they are at stopping transmission, but experience with other vaccines should encourage confidence that even if the vaccine still allows "silent" infections, these silent infections are very poor at enabling transmission to other people.

**bob10** · 16th June 2021, 07:33 AM

Originally Posted by JDNSW

Much seems to being made of the fact that it is still possible to be infected, but not show symptoms after being vaccinated for covid. This is in fact the same for virtually all vaccines, but in spite of this they are remarkably effective at stopping disease.

The highly publicised trials of the covid vaccines have been generally careful to claim only what is supported by trials data. Because it is almost impossible to actually measure how many (if any) of those vaccinated have been infected and passed on the virus, no claims for prevention of transmission can be made. Anti-vaccine activists have jumped on this with "See, the vaccines do not prevent transmission, so they are completely useless!!!"

Eventually, with mass vaccination, we will be able to make a good estimate of how effective they are at stopping transmission, but experience with other vaccines should encourage confidence that even if the vaccine still allows "silent" infections, these silent infections are very poor at enabling transmission to other people.

Here is an article from the New York Times , RE Post vaccination infections, in the USA. Basically the CDC has stopped tracking break through infections, except for the most severe cases. May 25 2021.NYTIMES ;

Coronavirus Briefing: Post-vaccination infections (nytimes.com)

DiscoMick · 16th June 2021, 08:23 AM

I see there are now reports that re-examination of blood samples indicates people in the USA had Covid in December 2019, so that undermines the claim it started in China early in 2020.

I have also seen a story that a case was found in France in December 1919.

Reading the website Emerging Viruses shows there are outbreaks of new viruses happening all the time all over the world. It's actually rather scary. Humanity is under constant threat of extermination.

Sent from my A1601 using AULRO mobile app

**SBD4** · 16th June 2021, 08:36 AM

Originally Posted by DiscoMick

I see there are now reports that re-examination of blood samples indicates people in the USA had Covid in December 2019, so that undermines the claim it started in China early in 2020.

I have also seen a story that a case was found in France in December 1919.

Reading the website Emerging Viruses shows there are outbreaks of new viruses happening all the time all over the world. It's actually rather scary. Humanity is under constant threat of extermination.

Sent from my A1601 using AULRO mobile app

This would indicate otherwise. First case diagnosed 17 Nov 2019 in China. It's likely that there will have been cases before that.

First Covid-19 case happened in November, China government records show - report | Coronavirus | The Guardian

**bob10** · 16th June 2021, 12:35 PM

Lifting of the Vic lockdown under threat from more cases and more exposure sites.

City market, Bunnings among dozens of new Vic exposure sites (thenewdaily.com.au)

**Eevo** · 16th June 2021, 01:40 PM

Originally Posted by JDNSW

This is in fact the same for virtually all vaccines, but in spite of this they are remarkably effective at stopping disease.

which leads to the question, did we actually eradicate polio/smallpox the virus? or is it still out there and we dont show signs of the disease?

**4bee** · 16th June 2021, 03:40 PM

Originally Posted by Eevo

which leads to the question, did we actually eradicate polio/smallpox the virus? or is it still out there and we dont show signs of the disease?

Dunno, but it is interesting that Tuberculosis appears to be making a comeback & that was one disease "they" claimed had been knocked on the head.

**V8Ian** · 16th June 2021, 04:13 PM

Originally Posted by 4bee

Dunno, but it is interesting that Tuberculosis appears to be making a comeback & that was one disease "they" claimed had been knocked on the head.

Des, millions were spent eradicating TB in this country, feral and domestic animals were destroyed to that end.
Post eradication, foreigners were allowed into the country, carrying the disease. There was an outbreak in a public hospital, with a number of staff infected. That was hushed up.

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