Thread: Corona Virus

Originally Posted by JDNSW

From the news footage I have seen, the army is used to allow patrols to be one army and one police rather than two police, thus effectively doubling the number of patrols available.

True, but you could have the same result from using security guards or SES volunteers. But the intimidation factor is not there, especially among some of the migrant residents of S.W. Sydney. During the first major lockdown/ border closure in Qld troops were deployed out west to work with Police at border crossings, the ratio was something like 1 police Officer to about 9 or ten soldiers,[ from memory] with the troops supplying the man power & the Police the professional expertise. By that I mean policing expertise.

During the recent delta outbreak Police were called to the SE from all over Qld, and manned the check points, and also mobile patrols in every locked down suburb. It was almost a guarantee if you were out & about during lockdown, you would be stopped and questioned . The Police were firm but polite, gave out masks, if you didn't have one, gave you one. If you refused to wear it, you were fined.[ and to the credit of the population , there were very few fines given out, and only a handful of arrests of people who pushed the issue ] They did a magnificent job, and were a large part in ensuring Qld came out of lockdown.

Using the military in such a way as they did , in my mind, was not what the defence Force should be used for, , doing a job that was the responsibility of the State Police force. Not knocking the NSW Police , they have to do what they are told. Any way, it's just my opinion, and we've all got one.

Originally Posted by Arapiles

Victoria has already suppressed two delta outbreaks.

It's bog standard for a lockdown to be a fortnight, because that's the incubation period and that's also why hotel quarantine is 14 days. So the extension was not a surprise to anyone here.

NB, Victoria would be covid-free if the Sydney outbreak was under control because Sydney has seeded one and probably both of our outbreaks. So it's a bit rich to be bagging Victoria for dealing promptly with an outbreak that was caused by NSW.

Not bagging Victoria, they are using the tools that they have at their disposal, a two week lockdown is neither short nor sharp as has been pointed out on here as the success story that has saved Victoria previously, maybe delta is a bit more difficult to control than the simplistic arguments on here would suggest? We'll see if Victoria is experiencing 20 cases a day in a weeks time I guess....

Regards,
Tote

Originally Posted by Tote

Not bagging Victoria, they are using the tools that they have at their disposal, a two week lockdown is neither short nor sharp as has been pointed out on here as the success story that has saved Victoria previously, maybe delta is a bit more difficult to control than the simplistic arguments on here would suggest? We'll see if Victoria is experiencing 20 cases a day in a weeks time I guess....

Regards,
Tote

A two week lock down is short and sharp, compared to a three month one.

Originally Posted by bob10

True, but you could have the same result from using security guards or SES volunteers. But the intimidation factor is not there, especially among some of the migrant residents of S.W. Sydney. During the first major lockdown/ border closure in Qld troops were deployed out west to work with Police at border crossings, the ratio was something like 1 police Officer to about 9 or ten soldiers,[ from memory] with the troops supplying the man power & the Police the professional expertise.

During the recent delta outbreak Police were called to the SE from all over Qld, and manned the check points, and also mobile patrols in every locked down suburb. It was almost a guarantee if you were out & about during lockdown, you would be stopped and questioned . The Police were firm but polite, gave out masks, if you didn't have one, gave you one. If you refused to wear it, you were fined.[ and to the credit of the population , there were very few fines given out, and only a handful of arrests of people who pushed the issue ] They did a magnificent job, and were a large part in ensuring Qld came out of lockdown.

Using the military in such a way as they did , in my mind, was not what the defence Force should be used for, , doing a job that was the responsibility of the State Police force. Not knocking the NSW Police , they have to do what they are told. Any way, it's just my opinion, and we've all got one.

I disagree on many points.
My personal experience of being a legitimate border crosser during lockdown was:
NSW- Unmanned.
SA- Police alone.
WA- Usual border officers with police reinforcement. Police checking passes.
QLD- Transport Department Inspectors, ADF, SES with police reinforcement.
All of the above were polite, friendly and efficient with nary a hint of intimidation.
The police are the only members of the above group with power of enforcement. By far the vast majority of the community are cooperative and compliant, easily processed by non-police personnel. Police numbers only needed to be minimal, to deal with the ratbags.

During the very recent SEQ lockdown, I was legitimately out and about in Brisbane and Ipswich, at not time was intercepted or had my legitimacy challenged. I know of people who totally ignored the orders, every day, but were never questioned.

I have a nephew, in the Army, who spent weeks last Christmas on hotel quarantine duty. Had the authorities wanted him to intimidate, I'm sure he would have been ordered to present in full camouflage (painted face included), carrying his rifle.

Originally Posted by Tote

Not bagging Victoria, they are using the tools that they have at their disposal, a two week lockdown is neither short nor sharp as has been pointed out on here as the success story that has saved Victoria previously, maybe delta is a bit more difficult to control than the simplistic arguments on here would suggest? We'll see if Victoria is experiencing 20 cases a day in a weeks time I guess....

Regards,
Tote

I think it will be around 3 weeks before lockdown 6 ends - if it is working, we'll see numbers that were infectious in the community start to drop by early next week. If we get to zero cases that were infectious while in the community for 3 or 4 days after that we may be allowed out.

For me it's not such a drama as my work takes me out of the house most days for legitimate reasons. My Partner is getting a little sick of it though as she can't.

Originally Posted by bob10

Des, just what exactly is the Army there for? They have no powers to arrest, they can not use force nor compel compliance with directives . Makes one think they are there purely for intimidation, and the fact that they were asked for because of " thousands of complaints people were breaking covid restrictions " , according to Police Commissioner Mick Fuller, and the fact the troops were to be deployed in the Western and South Western suburbs, but NOT the Eastern suburbs, even though the compliance rate for covid restrictions was no better in the East than the West at that time, well, that's a real bad look. Considering the population demographic between the suburbs.

The only reason I can think for their presence is to add a bit of muscle in case some folk get a strop on. A bit of "intimidation" it may be, but as they are dealing with some descendants of Oz's first convicts, maybe it is an in grown thing but I am not aware of other states using Army but shirley "they" must have a good reason. I wouldn't have a problem with a Copper & a Digger standing in the background if they knocked on my door but then I am a law abiding Citizen & wouldn't throw a punch at a Copper anyway. Call me a wuss if you like. I have had a couple[ of parking stickers but I doubt that would inflame them.
I just wish I knew what it was is all, not that their presence bothers me. Maybe it was an over reaction & they can't be seen to reverse the decision to use them?


Has Army been asked the reason?

Are the residents in the above affected areas prone to "sorting out the bloody coppers"

Could be as simple as that you know.

Originally Posted by V8Ian

I disagree on many points.
My personal experience of being a legitimate border crosser during lockdown was:
NSW- Unmanned.
SA- Police alone.
WA- Usual border officers with police reinforcement. Police checking passes.
QLD- Transport Department Inspectors, ADF, SES with police reinforcement.
All of the above were polite, friendly and efficient with nary a hint of intimidation.
The police are the only members of the above group with power of enforcement. By far the vast majority of the community are cooperative and compliant, easily processed by non-police personnel. Police numbers only needed to be minimal, to deal with the ratbags.

During the very recent SEQ lockdown, I was legitimately out and about in Brisbane and Ipswich, at not time was intercepted or had my legitimacy challenged. I know of people who totally ignored the orders, every day, but were never questioned.

I have a nephew, in the Army, who spent weeks last Christmas on hotel quarantine duty. Had the authorities wanted him to intimidate, I'm sure he would have been ordered to present in full camouflage (painted face included), carrying his rifle.

Different experience from mine. plenty of police out & about, and you miss my point on intimidation. If you came here from Iraq or Syria, the sight of police and soldiers at the door has a totally different feel about it.[ as told to me from some one who has.] I'm not suggesting that the military at the border crossings were intimidating, at all. They supplemented the police , and allowed some to be moved to areas where they could be of more value. The same in hotel quarantine. I don't want to have to spell it out Ian, but by using the Army to doorknock to me was a cynical exercise in intimidation by a government out of ideas.

Originally Posted by 4bee

The only reason I can think for their presence is to add a bit of muscle in case some folk get a strop on. A bit of "intimidation" it may be, but as they are dealing with some descendants of Oz's first convicts, maybe it is an in grown thing but I am not aware of other states using Army but shirley "they" must have a good reason. I wouldn't have a problem with a Copper & a Digger standing in the background if they knocked on my door but then I am a law abiding Citizen & wouldn't throw a punch at a Copper anyway. Call me a wuss if you like. I have had a couple[ of parking stickers but I doubt that would inflame them.
I just wish I knew what it was is all, not that their presence bothers me. Maybe it was an over reaction & they can't be seen to reverse the decision to use them?


Has Army been asked the reason?

Are the residents in the above affected areas prone to "sorting out the bloody coppers"

Could be as simple as that you know.

Des, I've been dancing around the issue for obvious reasons, suffice to say that many of the residents involved were of middle eastern origin.