Thread: NT to bring back climbing Uluru?

Originally Posted by bob10

Of course I can. The same as I can appreciate why there are Nazis, Taliban, Klu klux klan, etc. All borne out of fear and ignorance. I don't blame the people so much, as the environment they grow up in. What I do find is in most of these people you will find a reluctance to reach out to try to understand those that they regard as different, or social and intellectual inferiors .

It is a pretty big stretch to compare nazis, taliban and the KKK with someone that thinks it is "just a rock" (for example). And, once again, it is just your opinion/belief that others are driven by "fear and ignorance" just because they differ from your line of thinking. That does not necessarily make it true.

From a personal point of view, I don't think I have any "fears" in regard to (any) other cultures in our society and will happily admit to not knowing all the deep dark secrets and traditions of any of them. I have a general understanding of the ones that interest or have some affect on me/my family and that, like everyone else is a personal choice.

Originally Posted by pop058

It is a pretty big stretch to compare nazis, taliban and the KKK with someone that thinks it is "just a rock" (for example). And, once again, it is just your opinion/belief that others are driven by "fear and ignorance" just because they differ from your line of thinking. That does not necessarily make it true.

From a personal point of view, I don't think I have any "fears" in regard to (any) other cultures in our society and will happily admit to not knowing all the deep dark secrets and traditions of any of them. I have a general understanding of the ones that interest or have some affect on me/my family and that, like everyone else is a personal choice.

I think you should read it again. I made the point that I thought someone's environment was instrumental in forming their Belief structure, and if you look closely at the three examples I gave you will see that fear and ignorance are driving forces in all of them. And that is the belief of many prominent historians , recorded for you and any one else to read. I base some of my opinions/ belief's on documented evidence, and I also try to find out as much as I can on a subject before I make comment. something I can recommend..

Originally Posted by bob10

you will see that fear and ignorance are driving forces in all of them.

But, isn't that the crux of indigenous mythology? If the actual reason for something's existence was not understood , then a good yarn was made up to explain things e.g. the Glass House Mountains. They're volcanic plugs, not Mum, Dad and a cowardly little boy.
Then there's the Coloured Sands story : Minerals, not a rainbow serpent v magic boomerang, the two sisters teardrop marks at Gantheaume Pt. near Broome : Dinosaur prints not tears, and so on.
These are nice stories but should they take precedence over the facts?
One 'Dreamtime Story' I remember was about the creation of the moon, caused by an old black fella throwing a shining boomerang into the sky so his people could see at night. No harm with the story but how would it have gone down with NASA if a complaint had been put in about the 1st moon landing?

I'm not saying that these, or any creed or culture's beliefs and myths, should be denigrated but surely, common sense, even though in short supply apparently, should prevail in the struggle of Fact v Fiction..................and there are no greater purveyors of 'Fear and Ignorance' than the 'God Above' establishments.

Originally Posted by Saitch

But, isn't that the crux of indigenous mythology? If the actual reason for something's existence was not understood , then a good yarn was made up to explain things e.g. the Glass House Mountains. They're volcanic plugs, not Mum, Dad and a cowardly little boy.
Then there's the Coloured Sands story : Minerals, not a rainbow serpent v magic boomerang, the two sisters teardrop marks at Gantheaume Pt. near Broome : Dinosaur prints not tears, and so on.
These are nice stories but should they take precedence over the facts?
One 'Dreamtime Story' I remember was about the creation of the moon, caused by an old black fella throwing a shining boomerang into the sky so his people could see at night. No harm with the story but how would it have gone down with NASA if a complaint had been put in about the 1st moon landing?

I'm not saying that these, or any creed or culture's beliefs and myths, should be denigrated but surely, common sense, even though in short supply apparently, should prevail in the struggle of Fact v Fiction..................and there are no greater purveyors of 'Fear and Ignorance' than the 'God Above' establishments.

You and many like you miss the point entirely. No point in discussing this any more because it's pointless, really. It is just too difficult for some one with the colonial mind set to begin to understand ,[ and I struggle to fully understand as well, the deeper I get into it, the harder it gets. I have the disadvantage of not being a fully initiated man , and they are the custodians of their land , the only ones who can pass on the dreaming. So your story of the archaeologist telling aboriginal 'advisers ' doesn't make sense. There is no way she would be permitted to know the sacred sites.. And were the 'advisers' fully initiated men, Or just a couple of men from the local land council, out to garner maximum profit from the mining company?]

and as far as traditional ownership goes, Terra Nullias was made illegal, and null and void with the Mabo decision. It's not my intention to come across as an ' expert' because I am most certainly not. But it irks me to see what some here with absolutely no understanding call informed debate, and expect it to be taken as written. This is a complex and difficult subject for the average white man to understand, and sadly more and more young aboriginal men are not being initiated into the culture. An example of the total lack of understanding is given by your suggestion that the dreaming story of the creation of the moon may leave NASA open for some type of claim. Sorry but that is ridiculous. Anyway, I've had my say, that'll do me.



Understanding Aboriginal Dreaming

Originally Posted by bob10

Of course I can. The same as I can appreciate why there are Nazis, Taliban, Klu klux klan, etc. All borne out of fear and ignorance. I don't blame the people so much, as the environment they grow up in. What I do find is in most of these people you will find a reluctance to reach out to try to understand those that they regard as different, or social and intellectual inferiors .

Why is it that every time people don't agree with your personal philosophy you resort to denigrating them, I this particular example comparing them to "Nazis, Taliban and Klu Klux Klan" ??
In my Personal opinion I believe that ALL religions and Mythologies are pure fantasy, Does that make me a Nazi??