Thread: Australian Made vs Off-Shore.

Originally Posted by ramblingboy42

currently , the majority of apprenticeship aged peoples aren't very interested in tying down to 4/5yr low paid training programs.

if on the job full time, i dont understand why these things take over 12 months let alone 4/5 years

Originally Posted by trout1105

The problem with removing the 457 visas and replacing these people with an Australian workforce is that most of the work is hard yakka in difficult conditions, people often need to travel to rural areas to do this work and generally the work is low pay.

Maybe IF the people that need these 457 workers paid a decent wage and improved the conditions at work and the accommodation provided with these jobs they would be able to attract workers from within Australia instead of having to employ these overseas workers.

One of the problems with finding harvest labour is that the work is poorly paid and living conditions for many are disgraceful. Much harvest work is piece work not wages. Persons receiving unemployment payments can not be penalised for refusing this work as it rarely meets the definition of "suitable work". Suitable work pays a fair award wage with award conditions, is conducted at reasonable hours, and is not more than 1 1/2 hours travel. Local unemployed are often familiar with the local farm employers and will not work for those they regard as slave driving skinflints. Decent pay and good accommodation would remove most of the harvest labour shortfall.

Originally Posted by DiscoMick

Reality is about half of senior school students are not suited or ready for professions requiring a university education, so they are much better to go into trades training, but there are not enough places.

been that way for at least 15 years

Charging piece workers for their accommodation and food can wipe out a fair chunk of any money the workers earn.
Foreign students only do it because it is how to qualify to get an extra year on their visa to stay here.
There are plenty of reports of farmers requiring foreign girls to have sex if the farmer is to sign the documents so the students get approved for the extended visa.

Originally Posted by trout1105

The problem with removing the 457 visas and replacing these people with an Australian workforce is that most of the work is hard yakka in difficult conditions, people often need to travel to rural areas to do this work and generally the work is low pay.

i cant speak for all 457. many i know of, simply, the company doesnt want to pay aust wages and has little to do with the scarcity of skills.

a lot of 457 are not needed and the system is being played.

Originally Posted by ramblingboy42

.......
In my time apprentices started at 15/16 yrs old and learned while they were growing into adulthood.
......

This is largely because trades learned through apprenticeships have come to require more basic learning, particularly maths and science. This is as the skills required have changed from largely manual skills to knowledge and thinking skills in almost all jobs, especially those filled by tradesmen.

Another factor is to justify the need for a trade certificate to do many jobs that really could be done by a lot of others.

And yet another is the tendency to try and even out the knowledge level of the entire population - another two or three years of schooling is needed for the lowest skill occupations if we are now requiring degree level qualifications for the next level up!

Originally Posted by JDNSW

This is largely because trades learned through apprenticeships have come to require more basic learning, particularly maths and science. This is as the skills required have changed from largely manual skills to knowledge and thinking skills in almost all jobs, especially those filled by tradesmen.

Another factor is to justify the need for a trade certificate to do many jobs that really could be done by a lot of others.

And yet another is the tendency to try and even out the knowledge level of the entire population - another two or three years of schooling is needed for the lowest skill occupations if we are now requiring degree level qualifications for the next level up!

The vocational guidance guy at my high school would tell the "thick as two bricks" students to become carpenters, brickies, plumbers as these trades were not heavy on maths. The bright ones who were not going on to university (poor parents in the days of fee paying) were told to become electricians, boilies, and fitter-machinists. These callings required good maths & geometry skills. The plumbers and brickies all became rich and early retired.

Originally Posted by Bigbjorn

The vocational guidance guy at my high school would tell the "thick as two bricks" students to become carpenters, brickies, plumbers as these trades were not heavy on maths. The bright ones who were not going on to university (poor parents in the days of fee paying) were told to become electricians, boilies, and fitter-machinists. These callings required good maths & geometry skills. The plumbers and brickies all became rich and early retired.

Yes, all too true!

Perhaps I should mention in this thread that though I have not worked in a trade or in manufacturing, my father did. He qualified as a teacher, but also qualified as a fitter and turner in an aircraft engine factory doing an accelerated wartime emergency training scheme. Largely because of his maths ability, by the end of the war he was a toolmaker, and after the war, when the factory set up a trade school for apprentices, he was transferred there as a teacher. When the factory closed after the end of the Korean war, he was headmaster.