Indonesia asks for Aus. and Singapore to help in Submarine sinking

**101RRS** · 4th May 2021, 03:46 PM

No it was not the submarine Captain but the Commander of Submarines - really all quite normal for a working up submarine or one doing special trials - we do it, but the Commander Submarines (the old COMSUBRON) would be accompanied by a sea riding team - it not clear in the Indonesian reports whether this was also case in their situation.

I assume the Indonesian Navy would be the same as ours in that the Captain retains full power of command irrespective of who else is onboard and retains that power unless officially relieved of command. If ordered to do something by the Commander that the Captain deems not safe etc he does not have to do it - however there is a cultural aspect that could come into play - it would be hard enough on an Australian ship for a Captain to say NO but, knowing a little of SE Asian culture I can see an Indonesian Captain caving into pressure.

Garry

**bob10** · 4th May 2021, 06:42 PM

Originally Posted by 4bee

Actually, it was you bob.

Yes I agree. EDIT. I got it wrong. I couldn't understand why the Commander of Submarines would be there on his own. [ ie no team with him] Still don't , but having said that I wasn't a submariner, just have some very good friends who were. We used to discuss our different jobs , etc.

**4bee** · 4th May 2021, 06:55 PM

Originally Posted by bob10

Yes I agree.

That sounds a bit Jim Hacker/Sir Humphrey Applebee-ish.

H " I agree Prime Minister"

"What Humphrey" says Jim surprised, "Who do you agree with?"

H. "You Prime Minister, I agree with you".

PM "You agree with me?"

H. "I don't know how I can put it any simpler, "Yes Prime Minister, I a-g-r-e-e w-i-t-h you".

**4bee** · 4th May 2021, 07:00 PM

Originally Posted by bob10

Yes I agree. EDIT. I got it wrong. I couldn't understand why the Commander of Submarines would be there on his own. [ ie no team with him] Still don't , but having said that I wasn't a submariner, just have some very good friends who were. We used to discuss our different jobs , etc.

Surprisingly I bet the subject of Stoker's Duties on a Sub never came up.

**bob10** · 4th May 2021, 07:52 PM

Originally Posted by 4bee

Surprisingly I bet the subject of Stoker's Duties on a Sub never came up.

I read an article written by a Indonesian Submariner about those German submarines. They were even more cramped than the O Boats. He wrote you could not pass in the passageway, it was too narrow. Could be a reason for the Commander[ Subs]not to have a team with him. It's all academic now, of course.

**Fourgearsticks** · 5th May 2021, 08:50 AM

Originally Posted by 4bee

That certainly puts a new slant on it, Fgs.
Things can't improve with that crap thinking.

Not sure if your having a go at me or the "Don't question authority" mentality.

I have seen pilots fly dangerous and un-airworthy aircraft after they were told everything is good. The aircraft were obviously dangerous but the local pilots to a man would not question and flew when they were told. Expat pilots would refuse to fly.
Local pilots were badly trained, were afraid of flying and employed because of their family positions in the company or social status, not because of experience or potential. Because of this the inexperienced pilots were too afraid to question anything they were told. It's the same throughout Indonesian society.

**austastar** · 5th May 2021, 09:03 AM

Hi,
I believe it was that attitude that prevented the 2nd officer from expressing concern at the approach speed of an overshoot landing in Asia a while ago.
Cheers

**4bee** · 5th May 2021, 09:40 AM

Originally Posted by Fourgearsticks

Not sure if your having a go at me or the "Don't question authority" mentality.

I have seen pilots fly dangerous and un-airworthy aircraft after they were told everything is good. The aircraft were obviously dangerous but the local pilots to a man would not question and flew when they were told. Expat pilots would refuse to fly.
Local pilots were badly trained, were afraid of flying and employed because of their family positions in the company or social status, not because of experience or potential. Because of this the inexperienced pilots were too afraid to question anything they were told. It's the same throughout Indonesian society.

Not sure if your having a go at me or the "Don't question authority" mentality.

Oi! The "don't question" mentality of course, as it must be a recipe for disaster generally.

I have too much respect for your known experience to have a pop at you Fgs.

**4bee** · 5th May 2021, 09:47 AM

Originally Posted by bob10

I read an article written by a Indonesian Submariner about those German submarines. They were even more cramped than the O Boats. He wrote you could not pass in the passageway, it was too narrow. Could be a reason for the Commander[ Subs]not to have a team with him. It's all academic now, of course.

The big German Designers possibly assumed they were mostly little blokes or they could leapfrog their way up/down the passage ways.

Or Price.

**bob10** · 5th May 2021, 10:44 AM

Originally Posted by 4bee

The big German Designers possibly assumed they were mostly little blokes or they could leapfrog their way up/down the passage ways.

Or Price.

Been doing a bit of searching, and found some interesting stuff [ technical word ] The Indonesian submarine had been upgraded in South Korea, to be able to fire 4 torpedos at once. The torpedo they were firing was the German AEG SUT 264, a wire guided torpedo produced by Atlas Elektronik entering service in 1967. Taiwan purchased the same torpedo, and a war shot SUT fired during a training exercise from a Hai-Lung class submarine in 2003 broke it's control wires and went out of control. Here is the Indonesian Submarine's service history, or some, at least.

KRI Nanggala participated in readiness and training exercises in 2002 & 2015, and participated in an Indian Ocean exercise in 2004, where it sank a decommissioned ship. In 2012 she participated in an exercise with USS OKlahoma City. The Submarine conducted a number of intelligence gathering operations around Indonesia, one in the Indian Ocean in 1992, and East Timor, 1999, tracking the movements of International Force East Timor as it landed in the region. In 2005 the submarine was tasked with scouting, infiltrating, and hunting down strategic targets around Ambalat , after an Indonesian and a Malaysian ship were involved in a collision .

She did a two year refit in South Korea, 2010. The refit replaced much of the most of the upper structure, and upgraded its weaponry, sonar, radar, combat control and propulsion system. After the refit the submarine was capable of firing 4 torpedos at 4 different targets simultaneously and launching Exocet and Harpoon. It's safe diving depth was increased to 257 metres, and top speed increased to 25 knots.

Looking at it's intelligence gathering operations and modernisation, it's safe to assume only the best Captain and crew would be posted to the submarine. And it was arguably one of the best submarines in the S E Asian area. Which makes it even more of a mystery .

Thread: Indonesia asks for Aus. and Singapore to help in Submarine sinking

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