Covid Mk ll

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Originally Posted by bob10

What to do about vaccine refuseniks? Singapore has legislated non payment of Covid medical fees if you are not Vaccinated. However , in Australia a scheme based on our Medicare levy surcharge could help recoup costs while gently incentivising vaccination. From CRIKEY;

"There exist a small number of democratic obligations that , if adhered to by everyone, generate the many freedoms we enjoy. Vaccination is a modern embodiment of these "

Vaccine refusers need to pay for the pressure they put on hospitals (crikey.com.au)

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It will get to the point where it does not matter, they will only be a risk to themselves, not the hospital system or the majority of the population. NSW is looking at a point in time where the restrictions will drop for the unvaccinated, currently this is 95% vaccination or the 15th of December, whichever comes first. Other states have different rules but it does become a game of diminishing returns attempting to get hardcore anti vaxxers to submit......
As for paying for their impact on hospitals, they already do via the medicare surcharge.

Regards,
Tote

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Originally Posted by Tote

It will get to the point where it does not matter, they will only be a risk to themselves, not the hospital system or the majority of the population. NSW is looking at a point in time where the restrictions will drop for the unvaccinated, currently this is 95% vaccination or the 15th of December, whichever comes first. Other states have different rules but it does become a game of diminishing returns attempting to get hardcore anti vaxxers to submit......
As for paying for their impact on hospitals, they already do via the medicare surcharge.

Regards,
Tote

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True, but the unknown is just how reduced immunity from vaccines will impact the vaccinated community. For example 85% of Singaporeans are vaccinated, with 18% receiving booster shots. And yet, two days ago there were 2,470 new cases, and 14 deaths. The Singaporean Government has been paying full coronavirus medical costs to all citizens, until now .Now ,according to the report, unvaccinated people pay their own costs. What is not being mentioned is that 95% is not of the whole population. All school children 5 to 11 have not been vaccinated, and in the UK and the US, schoolchildren of those ages are making up a large proportion of the new cases. I think it is a massive mistake to think this is over.

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Originally Posted by bob10

What to do about vaccine refuseniks?

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they are now running round comparing themselves to the jews in WWII

madness and rather offensive IMHO

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Originally Posted by bob10

I think it is a massive mistake to think this is over.

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truer words never spoken

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Originally Posted by incisor

they are now running round comparing themselves to the jews in WWII

madness and rather offensive IMHO

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Uneducated rabble, who probably haven't seen a real hard time in their lives. Offensive beyond words to holocaust survivors still alive. Lost for words really.

You've probably all seen this article from The Age but still .... it's extraordinary that there are people in ICU who are, even as they are being ventilated, still insisting that Covid isn't real. And whose families are aggressively demanding that they be treated with things like Ivermectin, you know the instant cure drug that medicos are for some reason refusing to treat them with:

COVID Victoria hospitals: Inside Sunshine’s ICU ward, only Maria is vaccinated as other die in disbelief

Inside Sunshine Hospital'''s COVID-19 ICU ward


"Victoria’s Health Department revealed on Friday that 95 percent of those in ICU with COVID-19 were not fully vaccinated.
Professor French said many had chosen not to be vaccinated due to their beliefs. These values are often shared by the patients’ families, making clinical conversations about life-saving treatments extremely difficult.


Some families have expressed a desire to shun conventional medicine, while other families request dangerous and unproven drug treatments they have read about online. Others find it hard to comprehend how much their loved one has deteriorated on FaceTime calls after having not seen them become increasingly sicker in the ICU.

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However, he said the abuse his staff have endured from the families of those severely ill with the disease, who believe the COVID-19 is a conspiracy, has taken a heavy toll. Psychologists have been called in to the ICU weekly to support healthcare workers.

“The level of verbal assault our clinical staff have been exposed to in the last six to eight weeks is something I have never, ever experienced in my career,” the intensive care physician said.
“The misinformation, the belief this isn’t real, the absolute distress they are experiencing when their relatives are critically unwell makes it very, very difficult to have a conversation with them about how we can help them because what they’re requesting is often not consistent with the medical advice.”

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Originally Posted by Tote

It will get to the point where it does not matter, they will only be a risk to themselves, not the hospital system or the majority of the population. NSW is looking at a point in time where the restrictions will drop for the unvaccinated, currently this is 95% vaccination or the 15th of December, whichever comes first. Other states have different rules but it does become a game of diminishing returns attempting to get hardcore anti vaxxers to submit......
As for paying for their impact on hospitals, they already do via the medicare surcharge.

Regards,
Tote

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Yes, all taxpayers are charged a Medicare levy of 2%. Individual patients pay the " gap " between the Medicare fee , and the fee their Doctor charges. Here's the kicker, households that do not have private hospital cover face a surcharge of 1%, 1.25% , or 1,5% depending on their taxable income. With no equivalent levy for public hospitals, a similar scheme could be introduced for those who refuse a vaccination without an exemption. The Victorian AMA , in their frustration, understandingly stated that those who refuse vaccination for no good reason should be denied treatment. But that flies in the face of the premise a public health system must treat all comers based on need, and the capacity to benefit.

People refusing the life saving vaccine , when infected with COVID, will be placing huge strain on our hospital system. A system that costs 6.5% of GDP in the public system alone, and 9.4% of GDP in both public and private systems. NSW , and other States, are taking a large gamble on opening up restrictions to unvaccinated people, especially as the Federal Government is , and rightly so, if you only take the economy into consideration, intent on opening up to International travellers . With the state of the World ATM, countries going thru another wave of Covid, present , to me, an unacceptable risk of infection to our community. That risk is made even more stark by the fact our children aged 5 to 11 have not been vaccinated. We shouldn't gamble with the health of our people, or our children's lives. Just my opinion, history will judge.

Let me assure you all that I'm as far as one could be from the antivax stance.
If governments want to impose a surcharge on the unvaccinated, the same should be applied to all high risk activities, such as motor cycling, parachuting, jaywalking, even off road driving and any Defender driving; the list is endless.
The better alternative is to severely restrict where the unvaccinated can visit.

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Originally Posted by V8Ian

Let me assure you all that I'm as far as one could be from the antivax stance.
If governments want to impose a surcharge on the unvaccinated, the same should be applied to all high risk activities, such as motor cycling, parachuting, jaywalking, even off road driving and any Defender driving; the list is endless.
The better alternative is to severely restrict where the unvaccinated can visit.

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From what you are saying is, if they could do all those activities at the same time they could be covered? Spot on.[bigrolf]

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Originally Posted by Tote

It will get to the point where it does not matter, they will only be a risk to themselves, not the hospital system or the majority of the population. NSW is looking at a point in time where the restrictions will drop for the unvaccinated, currently this is 95% vaccination or the 15th of December, whichever comes first. Other states have different rules but it does become a game of diminishing returns attempting to get hardcore anti vaxxers to submit......
As for paying for their impact on hospitals, they already do via the medicare surcharge.

Regards,
Tote

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In Vic, there will become a sub class of unemployable people - we are getting several calls a week from people calling looking for work as their current employer is laying them off for not being vaccinated - as is the rule for a whole host of businesses - including ours. They are being told "If your current employer can't keep you as you wont get vaccinated, what makes you think we can take you?" November 26 is the day the following people need to be fully vaccinated by or will not be employable - Information for industry and workers required to be vaccinated | Coronavirus Victoria

These people are trying to wait it out thinking this rule will change but Uncle Dan has made it quite clear that rule will stay for all of 2022 at least. If that's not enough incentive to get jabbed, then there is nothing anyone can do.