Thread: OUTBACK TRAVEL

can you live with one of these vehicles without a gap tool (whatever that really is)?

when I had my d2 I didn't have any sort of scanner and worked my way through every (and there were bloody lots) conceivable problem the d2 had.

it's interesting that I've never heard of another manufacturer needing its owners to consult a special electronic scanner everytime it farts or hiccups.

you should be able to own and drive one of these vehicles following normal scheduled servicings without any problems , but it appears that is not the case.

I was going to buy a Discovery Sport thinking Land Rover had built a good faultless offroad vehicle but I was wrong.

I've been too scared to buy a modern Land Rover in the last ten years.

My previous vehicle was faultless and my current one is so far.

Electronics are just a common phobia. The critics of ABS, SRS, EFI, ETC and on and on it went - anything new or electronic, it was always a case of you cant fix it with a piece of fencing wire in the middle of the the desert. I remember when the Disco2 came out, all of the luddites were absolutely petrified of the electronics in them and they couldn't be used. Eventually everyone realised the electronics weren't a big deal, ETC works well if you drive it the way it needs to be and it does work on sand and you could take a Disco2 to Cape York. I think it will be the same with later vehicles. They will be fine as a whole - although there are always anomalies.

Originally Posted by ramblingboy42

can you live with one of these vehicles without a gap tool (whatever that really is)?

It can be very useful to know what faults codes have been stored to speed identification and rectification of the fault, reducing the possibility of chasing red herrings as often there can be many possible triggers for the displayed message. The Gap tool is one of several devices that can at least read and clear fault codes, but it is capable of much more, such as displaying real-time values of sensors which can make fault diagnosis much quicker and more reliably.
I didn't have a diagnostic tool for my TD5 D2s, having like you worked-out how to identify the causes for the various faults but wished I'd had one early on as it would have saved me a lot of stress arguing with LR.

Originally Posted by ramblingboy42

it's interesting that I've never heard of another manufacturer needing its owners to consult a special electronic scanner everytime it farts or hiccups.

Most other brands of vehicles including the garden variety Japanese and Thai built vehicles come up with fault codes,that need to be read with a scanner of some type.

Sure one can take the battery terminals off and it will reset,and then re appear if the fault is not sorted,but like Graeme said,it is much easier to read the codes which gives you either an indication of what the fault is,or what a generic fault is, so it could be one of a few things.

Cascading faults seem to often be an issue with LR's,but never seen a comment about that happening with other vehicles.
LR's are also more complicated than many other vehicles, so more chance of codes appearing.

I have an Ultraguage for the LC,and it is very usefull,dash mounted,and can monitor something like 52 vehicle parameters.I have one page set with 8 parameters, so i can monitor all the time,while driving.
It can reset and read codes and also has alarm settings,which i have set for coolant overtemp,but it wouldnt do 1/10 of the things a GAP tool can do.
Read the code on one of the vans recently and it had a blocked Cat.Another of them was bringing up a fuel trim code a few months ago, which was because the mechanic had left a hose off the rocker cover,after replacing spark plugs.

And then there are still faults that do not throw a code at all. Last year my engine cut out unexpectedly. I let is rest (since I pulled over) looked around, found nothing obvious, started it up again et presto. Never thought about it again till this spring. Turns out the crank position sensor hit the reluctor ring because some idiot at landrover decided that tag welding a plate for a sensor in aluminium would work (hint, it does not). In any case, this never threw an error since I guess the car simply though you had run out of fuel or whatever?

I see most people here having good experiences with electronics in cars and I think that is the general consensus. They will probably be just fine but the more you overdo the plumbing, the easier it is to stuff up the drain.

PS I just saw a piece on the tubes that stated some error codes in the new defender can only be mitigated with an internet connection? That is a bit of a thing...

-P

Originally Posted by prelude

In any case, this never threw an error since I guess the car simply though you had run out of fuel or whatever?

However if the fault had persisted or the engine faultered then a diagnotic tool that shows engine rpm while cranking would have revealed the lack of continuous output from the sensor.

Originally Posted by DieselLSE

Interesting question, Patrick.
My take on this is that it all comes down to preparation and risk management. If you are travelling remotely, on your own, but you've outsourced the vehicle servicing to someone else, then you are taking an incredible risk. In a modern vehicle, the slightest malfunction can be a showstopper unless you have the ability to diagnose and work your way through the problem.
I've just returned from the Madigan Line crossing of the Simpson in the D4 with a few others on this forum. From Birdsville, I travelled on my own down the Birdsville Track (which is more like the Hume Freeway than a track) to Warraweena Station where I stayed for a few weeks wandering all over the 355sq.km. property. I covered just under 10,000km, some of it over remote and rugged terrain. Issues? Not a sausage. The D4 performed flawlessly (as did the two other D4s on the Simpson crossing) BUT:
1. Before even buying the D4, I researched as much as I could about how the thing worked and what issues I should plan for (this forum was a great resource).
2. Whilst no-one's idea of a mechanic, I have been farting about with Landrovers since 1974. Yes, Landrover ownership over the decades has turned me into a "mechanic" and, more importantly, a reasonable diagnostician.
3. RTFM. I read the workshop manual. Not cover to cover, but I refer to it often and keep a copy on my phone and laptop. I keep a small folder of printed pages in the car (including tips and procedures posted by others on this forum)
4. I do all my own servicing and fitted all my accessories.
5. I outsource mechanical stuff that's beyond my pay grade (timing belts etc.) to a trusted Indy. I use Daniel at Romsey British Automotive, but there are many good Indies all over the country. I get the transmission serviced by A&B in Dandenong (90k, 145k and every 40k from now on).
6. I only use genuine Landrover parts sourced from a dealer. I'm often surprised at the lengths people go to to import aftermarket stuff from the UK for the same price (sometimes more) as I paid for the genuine article from the dealer. Yes, I do get some sort of trade discount, but that comes from being a customer for decades.
7. I do a daily check of the car in remote locations and/or where travel is rough like over corrugations.
8. I drive sympathetically to the conditions and pay attention to tyre pressures.
9. I have 18" wheels with LT tyres for remote travel.

So, what does this all mean? I would have no hesitation in taking a similar approach with a new Defender. But I'll keep the D4 for as long as I can because there's a few things about the new Defender that I'm not happy with:
1. Barn door. I love the D4 tailgate arrangement as it suits me perfectly. But I'd live with the barn door OK.
2. Ad Blue and DPF. Putting cows' urine through your engine is not good for it. Nor is having to set off a diesel fire in your exhaust every now and again. I tend to keep cars a long time, so longevity is important to me. I also worry about DPFs setting the countryside afire when you pull over.
3. If you opt for the petrol engine, you've just halved (well, significantly reduced) your travel distance. This is critical for outback travel. Important in the mountains, too.

very level headed approach indeed, thanks

Originally Posted by DieselLSE

I've just returned from the Madigan Line crossing of the Simpson in the D4 with a few others on this forum.

I was one of the participants on this trip in a D2, being the only one to take a camper regrettably.(Tvan)

I had no end of troubles with my SLS to the point that I did the last 150 KMs on bump stops.

DieselLSE took my Tvan for me to Birdsville and his D4 did a fantastic job of hauling it effortlessly over sand dunes.

I reckon that it probably would have got up big red with the Tvan on the back.