Thread: OUTBACK TRAVEL

Interesting question, Patrick.
My take on this is that it all comes down to preparation and risk management. If you are travelling remotely, on your own, but you've outsourced the vehicle servicing to someone else, then you are taking an incredible risk. In a modern vehicle, the slightest malfunction can be a showstopper unless you have the ability to diagnose and work your way through the problem.
I've just returned from the Madigan Line crossing of the Simpson in the D4 with a few others on this forum. From Birdsville, I travelled on my own down the Birdsville Track (which is more like the Hume Freeway than a track) to Warraweena Station where I stayed for a few weeks wandering all over the 355sq.km. property. I covered just under 10,000km, some of it over remote and rugged terrain. Issues? Not a sausage. The D4 performed flawlessly (as did the two other D4s on the Simpson crossing) BUT:
1. Before even buying the D4, I researched as much as I could about how the thing worked and what issues I should plan for (this forum was a great resource).
2. Whilst no-one's idea of a mechanic, I have been farting about with Landrovers since 1974. Yes, Landrover ownership over the decades has turned me into a "mechanic" and, more importantly, a reasonable diagnostician.
3. RTFM. I read the workshop manual. Not cover to cover, but I refer to it often and keep a copy on my phone and laptop. I keep a small folder of printed pages in the car (including tips and procedures posted by others on this forum)
4. I do all my own servicing and fitted all my accessories.
5. I outsource mechanical stuff that's beyond my pay grade (timing belts etc.) to a trusted Indy. I use Daniel at Romsey British Automotive, but there are many good Indies all over the country. I get the transmission serviced by A&B in Dandenong (90k, 145k and every 40k from now on).
6. I only use genuine Landrover parts sourced from a dealer. I'm often surprised at the lengths people go to to import aftermarket stuff from the UK for the same price (sometimes more) as I paid for the genuine article from the dealer. Yes, I do get some sort of trade discount, but that comes from being a customer for decades.
7. I do a daily check of the car in remote locations and/or where travel is rough like over corrugations.
8. I drive sympathetically to the conditions and pay attention to tyre pressures.
9. I have 18" wheels with LT tyres for remote travel.

So, what does this all mean? I would have no hesitation in taking a similar approach with a new Defender. But I'll keep the D4 for as long as I can because there's a few things about the new Defender that I'm not happy with:
1. Barn door. I love the D4 tailgate arrangement as it suits me perfectly. But I'd live with the barn door OK.
2. Ad Blue and DPF. Putting cows' urine through your engine is not good for it. Nor is having to set off a diesel fire in your exhaust every now and again. I tend to keep cars a long time, so longevity is important to me. I also worry about DPFs setting the countryside afire when you pull over.
3. If you opt for the petrol engine, you've just halved (well, significantly reduced) your travel distance. This is critical for outback travel. Important in the mountains, too.

Originally Posted by DieselLSE

Ad Blue and DPF. Putting cows' urine through your engine is not good for it.

Ad Blue is injected into the exhaust, downstream from the mechanical bits. It's a messy inconvenience rather than an engine destroyer.

Never worried about the vehicle, just driven it where i want to go - i service it every 10k and dont use cheap parts in servicing.

197kt and never let me down - dont over think these things...

But if you are inclined to, allow me to overthink

I guess this questions has first started to come up in the mid 90's when the P38 range rover came along. The previous incarnation was taken pretty much everywhere a Defender would have been taken but the new one was full of electronics. I have never digged that far back into the forum to see if there are any stories surrounding it but it would be a cool read!

Anyway, since then the car industry has only been going one way; the wrong way in the eyes of some but certainly the more complex and electronic way. If we simply forget about the reputation of landrover or any other brand and just look at a bit of simple and basic math cars are getting more complex. Every added system brings it own potentially ruinous risk with it. It must be said that it is a small miracle we can make this things to work as it is!

I recently watched the top gear episode from season 22 again (the last series with the holy trinity) where they visited Australia in bog standard "super" cars. Of course one could argue about the scripted nature and what not but by the looks of it they pushed those poser cars through some seriously rough terrain and they did not even blink an eye. Clarkson took one of those cars (the bentley) on the Grand Tour special to reunion and there only a plastic coolant pipe let go. It seems modern cars can take a beating! at least when new and for a reasonable amount of time.

Personally, I am still betting on it that electronics infested vehicles can be made to be reliable and serviceable since I am still in the process of converting a P38 range rover with air suspension to travel around the globe. The one thing that I would argue though is that although electronics and diagnostics can be learned, there is no guarantee you can fix any and all problems whilst in the bush. For example: let's say your ABS unit packs up, this is not a biggie since you can keep on driving. You still have brakes, just not the ABS which is doable. Most of the time the ABS cut's out due to a sensor problem, some of them can even be fixed road side. The same type of sensor is used (same concept, not the same model) for your crank position which tells the EFI how to do it's job. When that gives out, the engine will not run, period.

It seems to be the general consensus from the, admittedly car fans thus potentially biased, group of people I talk to that cars have generally become more reliable over the years. Back when cars had carburators you would need to change the dizzy, gap the plugs, replace bearings etc etc on a fairly regular basis. A car was something that needed constant maintenance and rightfully so we all thought, it has 1000's of moving parts! These days most cars don't need any maintenance before the 100K mark at all, except for oil changes. Even the brakes can last the first 100K's. From that point of view the reliability has shot up many times over. Add to that that we have stuffed hundreds of electronic devices everywhere that would normally have pulled DOWN the reliability (and to some extent they do) overall, still most cars will do 100k without issues whatsoever. So, yes, I think when talking in absolutes over the complete spectrum of cars reliability is "better" then it ever has been, however...

This does not mean that a 4x4 specifically has become more reliable. I believe even the venerable toyota landcruiser has certainly been sliding down the hill over the past years as an example. Less and less need for true 4x4's coupled to the need for more and more flashy SUV's around the world means choices are being made that do not lend themselves to your needs perhaps. Sure, a lap around OZ where you do not go of the more decent tracks (like the mentioned birdsville track) will still be possible with pretty much any decently maintained vehicle. Ask a bit more of it though and things might turn out differently.

You see, for me the question is not so much if a car is reliable enough to make it through some part of the world, the question is how reliable is it's driver and ultimately it's maintainer Can the person in the drivers (or passenger for all I care) seat actually get him/herself out of trouble when needed. In the past a piece of fencing wire, duct tape, hoseclamps, ty-raps and some spares like a fan belt and a radiator hose got you very very far. That is simply no longer the case. In today's day and age you need a computer for diagnostics and at a bare minimum the sensors that the engine MUST have to operate, if only in limp home mode. Also, no longer do you have 2 radiator hoses, you have a whole slew of small pipes everywhere for emissions and what not. Sure you could plug some off but you need to carry the tools and means to do so.

Finally I do agree that when servicing use genuine or known good parts. Problem is that when vehicles get older, getting parts is no longer possible. The D4 is already reaching the point where the manufacturer is no longer obliged in most jurisdictions to keep stock for example and older vehicles can't get some genuine parts anymore, period. Also, the diesel vs petrol debate is not as simple as: petrol is less range. Diesel has become way more complicated to keep running than a petrol engine so in many cases petrols certainly win out, except for range but if you have the GVM... bring more fuel

So, your question as to what capable and appropriate vehicles still exists, well, from a reliability point of view most will work. From a capability point of view, unless you want to go 4wd/247-ing (ie. break stuff) most will do. From a survivability point of view it depends entirely on whether you can fix it or can afford to have it towed at some point.

Cheers,
-P

When people talk about reliability I come back to a comment from a journalist I used to know

He had tested a Toyota for a week and was doing the write up for the magazine. During the week it had blown 2 fuses

When had written it up realised had not mentioned the fuses in the story. Stopped to think about it and why had not occurred to include this while writing the story. If this had been a Jaguar it would have been a big part of the story. Yet why had it not been a big part of the story written about a test of a Toyota?

My Disco 4 has taken me up the east coast, Fraser Island, Vic high country, across the Nullabor , WA coast, red center, Great Central Highway, Kimberly GRR, Top end Darwin to Lorrella Springs and everything in between.
Never one brake down, not a single fault, not a single unexpected visit to a repair shop, always driven with mechanical sympathy except the one day we drove it to Mitchell falls and out, I decided to "test" the robustness and long longevity of the car and punished it well beyond normal use which would put most cars to shame and make any car owner cringe.
Regular service and drive it for what it was designed for, they can take one hell of a beating if thats what you want to do to your car, I baby mine most of the time with the occasional spirited drive, service it regularly all that is needed
By far the best 4wds available IMO

Originally Posted by Patrick M

If you do believe that they are still capable vehicles in this respect then which models do you think are appropriate?
Regards:-
Patrick M

New vehicle or older models?

I started with mums range rover. V8, 4 on the floor and twin carbies and a distributor bodged up by a service at a local BP servo. I didn't know a distributor had to be welded at a service.

I went from that to mums new D1. First diesel delivered in WA and we had the sales managers V8 D1 while we waited. That D1 was cursed. Everything from a rear axle shaped like a banana to a clutch made from marshmallow. We had that car for ~25 years before it snapped a pin on the crankshaft because a Perth indie didn't tighten the bolt properly after a service.

I have (for the last 6 years) owned a 6 speed Manual D3. This ****er has 19 ECUs (RSE + FBH and no TCM). I live and die by the pdf workshop manual and Gap IID. I understand it inside and out. I know where each ECU is. I keep a connector guide and wiring diagram in the glove box.

Since we've owned it, every single fault has been caused by either a part with FoMoCo stamped on it, or negligence on the part of prior mechanics.

I'd drive it from coast to coast without any thought. Of course I carry a reasonably well stocked tool bag and my trade is "electronic technician". Everything that has failed to date on this vehicle has been either mechanical, or mechanical electrical (ie, driveshaft related wear to a wiring loom). Nothing that can't be fixed or worked around on the side of the road.


Personally I find the new Defender a bit like the Ducati 999. It's a face only a mother could love, but that's just a personal opinion.