Thread: Taste of things to come?

It's interesting trying to find data on where our electricity comes from.
Brown coal is still the main source in Vic but I was surprised at the percentage from wind (providing it's windy).
Australia: energy generation capacity in VIC by source 2023 | Statista

I think the gas turbines are mainly to fill in shortages and only get fired up when demand is high.

When Snowy 2.0 gets finished we'll effectively have a huge 'battery' storing energy for when the sun don't shine and the wind doesn't blow.
They claim it could power 3million homes for a week.
About - Snowy Hydro

In the end it all depends on reliable distribution to the consumer.

If, as some people believe, EV's are the future then the distribution infrastructure probably needs upgrading !


Colin

Originally Posted by scarry

Not normally,when mains power is off,unless the system is off grid permanently.

That’s where the solar battery comes in handy. Can power the house during outages, and when you have excess also solar charge the EV.

Although V2H would also be a good back up to have. Just keep enough in reserve to drive somewhere else to recharge it (not a problem if it is a hybrid) and you could survive an extended local outage.

Originally Posted by grey_ghost

Listening to the energy minister last night - she admitted that we generate 30% of our electricity from gas.. Yeah gas - the stuff the government is getting rid of…

So let’s go renewables right? Last time I looked the sun doesn’t shine at night. Which means more batteries. But really big ones yeah? More precious minerals…

How about wind? Oh yeah - the windmills that they turn off when it’s too windy… Oops

Sorry but I just don’t get the manical push for renewables. Yes - it should absolutely be part of the system, but not the entire solution…

Renewables backed up by gas would be a much more balanced and achievable outcome that can deliver the same nett zero benefits. This is the same argument for EVs.

Gas power is much cleaner, generates about half the CO2 emissions of coal, and can be switched on quickly when needed.

We can always offset the CO2 from gas by other means.

Even with all 4 Loy Yang A units now back on-line, the 2 Mortlake Power Station gas units are still providing back-up to the grid feeding a Smelter and SA if needed.

Originally Posted by grey_ghost

Depending on the setup, having solar panels on your roof doesn’t help with power outages. I have solar on my roof, which can’t pump into the grid due to - you guessed it - the local infrastructure can’t handle it. When we have a power out the solar does absolutely nothing.

I presume that the reason your PV panels do "absolutely nothing" when your grid connections fails (i.e., doesn't feed into your house) is because you don't have an isolation switch, which can be quickly and cheaply installed by any electrician.

Originally Posted by grey_ghost

We could install a battery system - which is quite expensive, uses even more resources from the earth and won’t last forever. So we dig up even more resources to get around the problem? I don’t think that is the answer either.

A battery would be helpful but it's the isolation switch that you need. In any case, the environmental impact of all the battery systems installed in Australia wouldn't add up to a fraction of the environmental impact of Australia's materialistic lifestyle.

Originally Posted by grey_ghost

In your scenario doesn’t that mean that wvery EV driver has to have solar and a battery system at home? How many precious minerals will that use? Do we even have enough?

EV in Japan is often sold as a package - house, panels and car. All interconnected. It's been the case over there for ages.

Originally Posted by grey_ghost

Listening to the energy minister last night - she admitted that we generate 30% of our electricity from gas.. Yeah gas - the stuff the government is getting rid of…

So let’s go renewables right? Last time I looked the sun doesn’t shine at night. Which means more batteries. But really big ones yeah? More precious minerals…

How about wind? Oh yeah - the windmills that they turn off when it’s too windy… Oops

Sorry but I just don’t get the manical push for renewables. Yes - it should absolutely be part of the system, but not the entire solution…

The reality is that most fossil-fuel plants can't compete on price with renewables. It's why no-one's building new coal plants. There's been times this year, already, when they were giving electricity away as the prices were negative.

Originally Posted by Arapiles

I presume that the reason your PV panels do "absolutely nothing" when your grid connections fails (i.e., doesn't feed into your house) is because you don't have an isolation switch, which can be quickly and cheaply installed by any electrician.

Unfortunately most of the inverters fitted on solar systems in Australia can not readily do this. Even with an isolation switch.

So you actually need a different inverter, or a seperate battery with its own inverter, which then includes the switch over capability.

Some hybrid inverters can’t even charge the battery when they switch to back-up mode - which is not very apocalypse proof.

Originally Posted by Arapiles

I presume that the reason your PV panels do "absolutely nothing" when your grid connections fails (i.e., doesn't feed into your house) is because you don't have an isolation switch, which can be quickly and cheaply installed by any electrician.



A battery would be helpful but it's the isolation switch that you need. In any case, the environmental impact of all the battery systems installed in Australia wouldn't add up to a fraction of the environmental impact of Australia's materialistic lifestyle.



EV in Japan is often sold as a package - house, panels and car. All interconnected. It's been the case over there for ages.





The reality is that most fossil-fuel plants can't compete on price with renewables. It's why no-one's building new coal plants. There's been times this year, already, when they were giving electricity away as the prices were negative.

As DiscoDB has said - I don’t think that it’s an isolation switch, it’s the type of inverter. Which was only explained to me after the system was installed - I wonder how many other people are in the same boat?

I am not sure that I agree with your statement on batteries. And I am not really sure that you answered my questions:

1) Do we have enough minerals for all of the required batteries (EV, house, mobile phones, laptops, ipads, etc, etc)
1 Given that these minerals are finite - surely we will run out?
1C) Exactly how much of a battery can be recycled effectively (without causing more environmental damage) ?

2) What is the environmental impact - of producing all of these batteries?

I actually think that EVs are a good option for some people.

I don’t think that BATTERIES are an environmental solution. At all.

Originally Posted by Arapiles

I

The reality is that most fossil-fuel plants can't compete on price with renewables. It's why no-one's building new coal plants. T

Those statements are so wrong they border on the idiotic.

First, remove all incentives and subsidies, all taxpayer funded and based solely on green ideology, and see who's competitive then. Hint: it won't be wind/solar. Long term results will be even worse. And, make the "renewables" clean up and dispose of their already obsolete monstrosities that lie around collecting weeds. The fossil fuelled generators have to. The various EPAs saw to that long before the arrival of the "renewables". I use the inverted commas, by the way, because they are NOT "renewable". Every part of tham, from construction, through installation, to decommissioning, is an environmental disaster, but nobody seems to care about that.

Second, take a look outside your local and Japan based bubble at the rest of Asia, including the sub continent, and then say nobody is building fossil fuel power generators. And, take a look at places like Germany, who are desperately scrambling back to coal, including the filthy lignite, because when some idiot blew up Nordstream and turned the gas off, their lovely green dream evaporated like fairy dust.

As for Japan, well.....

Back on topic, sort of. My power went off at approx 16:20 on Tuesday. Simultaneous to a very close lightning strike. Hmm. Of course, I couldn't check outages, because a; no power so no internet, b; mobile reception here is hopeless, and c; everyone else was doing the same thing. I had no idea just how widespread this event was. I agree with John at #4 that the infrastructure could be poorly maintained. It seems to me to be systematic, but I don't want this punted into CA. I don't agree about the air conditioners. The 15 year ago event I referred to, while there may have been less airconditoners installed overall, was on a Saturday, back when that meant something and back when most people would be at home, AND it was 45°C, so every airconditioner in existence would have been cranked up to 11.

Anyway, during this recent outage, which up here was exacerbated by the predictable falling of very large trees, the NBN also went down over almost the entire area known locally as "The Hills", but not until much later. I was still using it up until I shut down the genny and went to bed, but it was out in the morning. Not just here, and not just through the fibre/copper network, but through 4G and 5G mobile connection as well.. ( try filling an eScript. Had to drive about 10 K foe internet on my phone and screenshotting the QR code.) Then, at 10:423 yesterday I received a message telling me that it would be Saturday, as late as 18:00 before power could be restored. Less than two minutes later the lights came on! Not the NBN though. That was still out at 08:00 today, and came on while I was out.