Thread: This is fair justice

There is a fundamental difference of opinion between the right and left wing views of what prisons are meant to do.

The right wing believes they are meant to punish offenders. This is all well and good, but if you ever plan to release them back into society then you are back to square one.

The left wing view is that prisons are meant to rehabilitate offenders. To do this they need to be treated as normal human beings which, in the case of many criminals, means better than they have ever been treated before in their lives.

Bottom line - there must be a balance between removing a prisoner's freedom and priveledges and helping them to change. I can't see where this sheriff is going to achieve ANY of the latter. He is just going to send his inmates back into society with an even bigger chip on their shoulders and next time it may not be armed robbery, but murder that they commit. It doesn't matter how bad you make the conditions inside a jail. If a person spends enough time there they begin to treat it as home. If they are not prepared for release back into the community then all they can do is the same thing they did before to get back inside.

There is a fundamental difference of opinion between the right and left wing views of what prisons are meant to do.

The right wing believes they are meant to punish offenders. This is all well and good, but if you ever plan to release them back into society then you are back to square one.

The left wing view is that prisons are meant to rehabilitate offenders. To do this they need to be treated as normal human beings which, in the case of many criminals, means better than they have ever been treated before in their lives.

Bottom line - there must be a balance between removing a prisoner's freedom and priveledges and helping them to change. I can't see where this sheriff is going to achieve ANY of the latter. He is just going to send his inmates back into society with an even bigger chip on their shoulders and next time it may not be armed robbery, but murder that they commit. It doesn't matter how bad you make the conditions inside a jail. If a person spends enough time there they begin to treat it as home. If they are not prepared for release back into the community then all they can do is the same thing they did before to get back inside.

Well lets put it this way, the majority of prisons fall under the left wing view, say here in Oz, USA and UK and there is an exceptionally high proportion of repeat offenders. I watched one program where they spent months with a group of 10 prisoners in for lesser crimes than say murder etc and were coming up for release...within 6 mths....9/10 had re offended and ended up in jail again. Thats your left wing view for you.

Take the hard line view, look at countries oversea's where they have relatively low crime rates, why...because they have a right wing view and the punishment is harsh and swift and in many cases punishable by death. Taking it a step further, corporal punishment at school compared to the " up yours teacher that is prevalent in many schools today. Could we take a harder view to these sorts of things..........for sure,

Regards

Stevo

we have lots of room for a big tent camp in central aus

up here in the sunshine state most of them live in air conditioned cells

the whole system is a joke.......we need that sherif.....someone with the balls to make some changes....

Originally Posted by stevo68

Well lets put it this way, the majority of prisons fall under the left wing view, say here in Oz, USA and UK and there is an exceptionally high proportion of repeat offenders. I watched one program where they spent months with a group of 10 prisoners in for lesser crimes than say murder etc and were coming up for release...within 6 mths....9/10 had re offended and ended up in jail again. Thats your left wing view for you.

Take the hard line view, look at countries oversea's where they have relatively low crime rates, why...because they have a right wing view and the punishment is harsh and swift and in many cases punishable by death. Taking it a step further, corporal punishment at school compared to the " up yours teacher that is prevalent in many schools today. Could we take a harder view to these sorts of things..........for sure,

Regards

Stevo

Ummm, not quite Stevo....

Arizona has a recidivism rate of over 50%.
Most of their inmates (77%) are first time offenders.
Most of their inmates (56%) are in for non violent crimes.

That clearly is a system that is not working.

I am no bleeding heart liberal, but a realist.
People get sentenced to gaol "as" punishment, not "for" punishment.
The loss of liberty is a massive thing, and anyone who thinks any prison in OZ is like a motel, has most likely never set foot in one.
Prisoners shouldn't get pampered, but they shouldn't be treated like animals or slaves either.

Keep a dog in a cage, and belt it. It won't come out and be nice. It'll either come out and kill everything, or be broken and useless.

Some people are beyond help, but the majority aren't. If you don't treat them with respect (even the dregs), and use their time productively, at the the end of their sentence, you're letting out something worse than you originally put in.

I would rather a crim came out of the can, educated, with half a clue and some life skills, than a laundry man with huge muscles and a bigger chip on his shoulder.

P.S. The death penalty may wipe out recidivism, put it has been proven, time and again, it doesn't lower the crime rate, or act as a deterrent.

Originally Posted by stevo68

Take the hard line view, look at countries oversea's where they have relatively low crime rates, why...because they have a right wing view and the punishment is harsh and swift and in many cases punishable by death.

I agree with all but the death sentence.

I have never agreed with killing people for crimes committed but not because it’s inhumane rather the opposite, if someone has committed a crime that warrants being put to death then they deserve to be locked up for the rest of their life.

Putting them to death just removes their suffering, lock them up for the rest of the life and wish them a very long life.

His methods are obviously working... (2004 stats)

The crime rate in Arizona was 46.82% above the national average and three and half (3.5) times as high as that of New Hampshire, America's safest state. Of the nation's three most populous states, California, Texas and New York, both New York and California had crime rates below the national average, while Texas had one of the country's seven highest overall crime rates.

NationMaster - Encyclopedia: Crime in the United States

Compare the crime stats to Australia...

Originally Posted by stevo68

Take the hard line view, look at countries oversea's where they have relatively low crime rates, why...because they have a right wing view and the punishment is harsh and swift and in many cases punishable by death.

Where are these places???? Certainly none in the US...

Originally Posted by isuzurover

His methods are obviously working... (2004 stats)

NationMaster - Encyclopedia: Crime in the United States

From the same report:

The highest total crime rate of any state, except for the District of Columbia, was found in Arizona

Originally Posted by FenianEel

From the same report:

The highest total crime rate of any state, except for the District of Columbia, was found in Arizona

He has also been in office since 1992 - so his approach much be working...

EDIT - however, there is some good (possibly unintentional) in what he is doing. No cigarettes, plenty of excercise, not cooped up indoors... educational (if biased) tv shows...