Thread: Mark Webber

Originally Posted by taff

when coulthard was in the second seat at mclaren it was for a number of reasons but definately not because of his raw talent.
cheap (in terms of a f1 driver ), very good for p.r. - nice personality and aslo for the sheer amount of testing and his commitment to the team thus improving the car throughout the season for the number 1 driver.
at the time he was number three, f1 was a pretty sad place to be with a huge divivde between the top and the rest - that insn't the case as much anymore but every team still needs a whipping bitch other than the test drivers who will put the time in out of race days as well as doing well on race day's and coulthard fit's that mould perfectly and is good to have on the team
he's obviously talented to have gotten where he is and acheived what he has but he's still **** when compared to the likes of senna, schuey and soon to be hamilton.
as for weber, if he was any good ( by this i mean really good) he wouldn't be driving for red bull - he would have been picked up by now and would have a decent car to drive

A guy who has been in f1 for that long has "raw talent" as you put it.Being someones whipping bitch is a harsh call i don't think to many other drivers would see it that way.If i was third to shuey,senna or Hamilton i would consider myself a sucsess.

again brett, sorry mate i'm not having a dig but i think your taking me the wrong way. he's obviously decent (good) cos he's there in the first place - but good in terms of a good f1 driver (senna etc...) then definately not.
as for whipping bitch's harsh but true - look at the storm kicked up when massa let shuey past. proves the point his job at that time was to help shuey win and you come second - nothing more. it's that simple, happens all the time.

Originally Posted by taff

again brett, sorry mate i'm not having a dig but i think your taking me the wrong way. he's obviously decent (good) cos he's there in the first place - but good in terms of a good f1 driver (senna etc...) then definately not.
as for whipping bitch's harsh but true - look at the storm kicked up when massa let shuey past. proves the point his job at that time was to help shuey win and you come second - nothing more. it's that simple, happens all the time.

Ah yes but being a good team driver is what f1 is all about.I agree this happens all the time so teams secure enough points to gain the best chance of the championship ect.I think compareing anyone to senna is a tad unfair.

Originally Posted by taff

don't get me wrong i'm not trying to knock the bloke down - but in a sport where ther are a very little number of people participating as in f1 if your not in the top 2, 3 maybe 4 then realisticly they are not upto scratch.
i'd still give my left bollock to have his talent - job - but let's face the reality

only very few participate because very few can get there by whatever means they can... but lets be honest, everyone who has sat in a kart and raced wants to drive an F1, there are probably hundreds of open wheeler classes and competitions around the world feeding into F1. I believe that for by far the majority of those guys, F1 is the pinnacle of competition level driver's aims, therefore if you make it on talent, even in a cruddy car, you are right up there.

To be the best you need the full package, car, team, driving skill, finances, political position at the right time and luck... Webber doesn't have half of these while guys like Hamilton (who no doubt is highly talented) have had all of them since the age of 12 or something... Is Webber as good as the best? we will never know as they would need to swap cars each race throughout a season to determine the best driver (not the best balance of constructor/pit team/budget/etc etc).

I think he is a good bloke, and that is what his problem is.

Just like Hill, Mansell and Herbert before him. Mansell is probably one of the best drivers in the world but he only won one (F1) world championship. Same with Hill.

Unfortunatly F1 isn't the pinacle of driving / engineering that people think it is, it's a ruthless cutthroat business and certainly the best drivers do not always get through.

To be good in F1 you need to be devious and backstabbing, names like Senna, Schumacher are being mentioned I wont deny that they are good drivers but they got success by manipulating politics / rules behind the scenes.

Can Webber win a championship ? sure if he has the right car, there are only about 5 drivers in the field who are real drivers. Put any of those 5 in a top car and they will win, the rest like Coulthard/Lauda/Button/Heidfeld are just a PR's wet dream, but you can throw all the resources at them and nothing will happen.

Look I'm sorry but didn't vote, there wasn't an option for............................................... ........................... boring as batsh1t

Originally Posted by Redback

Look I'm sorry but didn't vote, there wasn't an option for............................................... ........................... boring as batsh1t

Sorry Baz .... will keep you in mind for my next poll .

i agree that there are maybe 5 drivers who could win a world championship given the right car but trust me weber isn't one of them - unless i was his team mate and every one else was driving tdi defenders
i also agree with the cut-throat business but you also need to understand that these guy's are being watched from a young age and the really talented one's are spotted then and followed.
o.k. you might think hamilton had it easy because of his sponsorship by ron dennis but he had already at that age proved how good he was so ron wasn't nuturing him, he was just trying to secure him for the future (because of how good he was) - should he remain as good and commited.
damon hill and johnny herbert were good but definately not up there with the best - not sure i'd even put mansell in that bracket.
and i'm really sorry but weber comes into the category of a p.r.'s wet dream along with coulthard/ lauda no matter what you give him etc...
that's a non biased opinion from a f1 fan