Thread: Police shoot 15yo boy in Melbourne

Originally Posted by Numpty's Missus

I'm not a bleeding heart by a long shot But...how often do obvious signs of something not being quite right get missed or ignored?? Too often I reckon I don't for one moment think anyone should be blamed...its just a great pity some things can be missed by the masses. Its not always obvious until the unthinkable happens....I still think its a failure of the system or society maybe a better word...IE his family, friends, his GP, his teachers and every man on the street that ever spoke to him or knew him...a troubled person lets of plenty of messages...we are often too tied up in our own selves to even see them

Sorry NM but what is it that the average person is to do? Call the cops, go talk to him and get bashed or stabbed?

He was obviously not coping with his dads death but.......he chose the path he took.
He was obviously not on the right path......But how then do you stop him from bashing people at school if he went to school, stop him from drinking and hanging around skin head thugs.
He was obviously heading toward a life of crime drugs alcohol and violence....but again, this is his choice and this is the problem of living in a democracy where he is allowed to make those decisions and we as normal people have very little say of what we want him to do due to it is his right to believe in and worship what ever the hell he wants to.

There is one sentence that is the only thing that means anything in life, "we are all in charge of our own destiny".

He chose his path and now his family and the coppers are living with the consequences of his actions.

Originally Posted by mcrover

Sorry NM but what is it that the average person is to do? Call the cops, go talk to him and get bashed or stabbed?

He was obviously not coping with his dads death but.......he chose the path he took.
He was obviously not on the right path......But how then do you stop him from bashing people at school if he went to school, stop him from drinking and hanging around skin head thugs.

He was obviously heading toward a life of crime drugs alcohol and violence....but again, this is his choice and this is the problem of living in a democracy where he is allowed to make those decisions and we as normal people have very little say of what we want him to do due to it is his right to believe in and worship what ever the hell he wants to.

There is one sentence that is the only thing that means anything in life, "we are all in charge of our own destiny".

He chose his path and now his family and the coppers are living with the consequences of his actions.

counsiling maybe? direction! Guidance! Support!

I think this is what NM was getting at and she is right a lot of kids choose the wrong paths in life because they dont get some of the essential things they need to make the right decisions in life.

causing to make them go off the rails and seek support and guidance in other areas such as gangs.

Originally Posted by mcrover

... skin head thugs...

Hey, im a skin head

Originally Posted by dullbird

counsiling maybe? direction! Guidance! Support!

I think this is what NM was getting at and she is right a lot of kids choose the wrong paths in life because they dont get some of the essential things they need to make the right decisions in life.

causing to make them go off the rails and seek support and guidance in other areas such as gangs.

Yeah no worries, I get the theory but in practice, Im not going near these out of control hitler wanna be's.

I would love to see someone try to get them to go to counciling.

By the time they have joined these gangs they are beyond help in a lot of cases.

Hopefully it will wake a couple of his mates up and they will leave that life and move onto a more sociable path, that all I can say as if he wont be subdued by capsicum spray then I doubt your going to subdue him with counciling.

Originally Posted by Numpty's Missus

Yeah...I wasn't saying at the time of his offence. More that in the 4yrs after his dad's death surely someone must have noticed he was running off the rails a bit

I dare say they did but once they are in the bad crowd it takes a bit to get them out of it.

I ended up having to deck one of my X bro inlaws mates and nearly ripped my Bro inlaws head off many years ago when he came around to score drugs and made no secrate of it.

I went into his caravan and told him his mate wouldnt be back and he got violent with me so I took that as he needed to be smacked like a little kid.

His mum (my x Mother inlaw) was trying to pull me off him saying he wasnt doing anything wrong.

2 days later I was picking him up from the cop shop.

Thus he never saw those mates again and they never would come near him or me again.

A couple of those mates are now dead, one suicide and 1 alcohol poisoning with drugs etc.........geez must have been a good night......

And yes, both their families cried that the system let them down yet the rest of them got sorted out as did my Bro inlaw who is now an electrition and a pretty good bloke by all accounts.

It is up to them if they want to straighten out or not, it is not our fault, not the coppers and not the systems fault.

If he had asked for help from a counciler and got told to sod off then I would think that there was a problem with the system and at the moment I wouldnt go bagging out the family for not helping him but they were about the only ones that could.

I've just finished reading all the previous posts (in installments). Couple of points for those who have never confronted an angry person:
The only people who gain from counselling are those who seek it.
Model 10 Smith & Wesson .38 revolvers are not one shot man droppers.
Approaching an agitated person armed with two knives will only result in oneself getting carved up.
When you are in a situation such as reported one reacts to training. One is trained not to place oneself in the line of fire of a fellow officer.
Victoria Police have not issued Tazers to general duty police.
There obviously was not any opportunity to wait for a dog or further backup.
There were four members, two of each gender at the scene. One was in immediate danger of being attacked by the OFFENDER. (Does his age have any bearing at this stage?)
Three of the members were in fear that an innocent life was in danger. (Yes, either them or a colleague!) If not they would have not shot.

Originally Posted by gogg0

I've just finished reading all the previous posts (in installments). Couple of points for those who have never confronted an angry person:

The only people who gain from counselling are those who seek it.

Model 10 Smith & Wesson .38 revolvers are not one shot man droppers.
Approaching an agitated person armed with two knives will only result in oneself getting carved up.
When you are in a situation such as reported one reacts to training. One is trained not to place oneself in the line of fire of a fellow officer.
Victoria Police have not issued Tazers to general duty police.
There obviously was not any opportunity to wait for a dog or further backup.
There were four members, two of each gender at the scene. One was in immediate danger of being attacked by the OFFENDER. (Does his age have any bearing at this stage?)
Three of the members were in fear that an innocent life was in danger. (Yes, either them or a colleague!) If not they would have not shot.

possibly true but sometimes people dont seek because they dont know its there and available.
I have met many people that think counsling is only for the sick and mental. Not true!

would it also be the case that people that get put into drug and alcohol programs never get better? as they didn't seek it in the first place.

Some people dont know they were in need of help until they get talking to someone.....and counsling doesn't have to be done by a professional can be done by a freind parent and other

Originally Posted by gogg0

I've just finished reading all the previous posts (in installments). Couple of points for those who have never confronted an angry person:
The only people who gain from counselling are those who seek it.
Model 10 Smith & Wesson .38 revolvers are not one shot man droppers.
.

Not off topic really but was'nt the 45 Colt devised after the Zulu wars as the warriors kept coming after being shot & the armies decided a caliber had to be able to knock an apponent/enemy off thier feet to be effective?