D4 with LLAMS height adjustor and MTR (19's)

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Originally Posted by sniegy

A dealer is in breach of law if they modify the vehicle in "any way" from the manufacturers specification. And there are hefty fines to be dealt to the dealer. :(

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OK got you now, thanks. I believe that's to do with trying to pass off a modified car as stock or something along those lines, more of a fraud thing than road safety regulations? Also the manufacturer would have a thing or two to say about any modifications, never mind the law. I know dealers sometimes struggle with selling modified 4WDs for certain industries because they have to use manufacturer-approved parts, not the aftermarket options.

A modification can still be carried out though as long as it complies with the regulations.

Then there's the warranty concern which is an ever-present issue with mods and seems to be very much dependent on the dealer and the person handling the claim.

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Originally Posted by HedleyLamar

I'm keen to install a Llams controller so I approached a respected Melbourne LR workshop (Not LR Aust.). Anyway, they will not install these as they claim that it is violation of Victorian modification laws.

Cheers,
Neil.

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Mmmmm ......
I 'm guessing you may be using the same eastern suburbs workshop as I am! I got the same story.

I'm thinking I may have to fit the system myself.

There is the issue of allowing a change of height at speed, which is a somewhat grey area under the current rulings. The Maztker system gets around this by having a speed lockout, whereby a user-requested height change cannot be effected above a certain speed.

Cheers,

Gordon

Edit: I think however, that any company refusing to fit a LLAMS system or similar based on this interpretation of the ruling could be accused of severe hypocrisy, considering what passes for "legitimate" 4WD mods these days - how many 38" tyre'd 4'bys do you see on the road - how many of them have _really_ got engineers' certs?

At least with Llams the driver knows that the vehicle is about to raise, compared with the standard D3/D4/RRS function of automatically raising from a LR promoted improved handling height to a lesser handling height at speeds just under 130 kph and not informing the driver that its about to happen! You know the rest of the story but LR have set the precedent.

Hey guys, I gotta ask, why approach someone to fit the llams for you? With the detailed information you can get off this forum ,inclusive of photos, you can easily do it yourself. I now speak from experience as i have just completed the fit up today and it only takes 2 hours provided you read all the instructions carefully and prepare properly.
N.B. i'm not overly mechanically minded and hate electrical work due to the restricted work space:mad: { if you can't fix it with a hammer and welder it can't be fixed:p!!!!

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Originally Posted by gghaggis

There is the issue of allowing a change of height at speed, which is a somewhat grey area under the current rulings. The Maztker system gets around this by having a speed lockout, whereby a user-requested height change cannot be effected above a certain speed.

Cheers,

Gordon

Edit: I think however, that any company refusing to fit a LLAMS system or similar based on this interpretation of the ruling could be accused of severe hypocrisy, considering what passes for "legitimate" 4WD mods these days - how many 38" tyre'd 4'bys do you see on the road - how many of them have _really_ got engineers' certs?

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Well exactly re your Edit. I can tell you very few although the tyre sizes are more like 33 to 35 and even 33 is out of limits in many cases.

The point re speed is interesting, but what do the regs actually say (agreed it's very grey), and already the factory system permits speed up to 50km/h at height. It also changes at 160 and 140. And Jeep/VW permit up top 70 in their offroad modes.

I still do not see any reason why LLAMS is not legal. Or rods for that matter.

In case anyone is interested in reading the actual Victorian law, here it is:

http://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/NR/rd...340/0/VSI8.pdf

sections 5 and 6. Note the reference to 1/3 travel, NOT 50mm.

These VSIs are well behind the times with respect to height-adjustable suspension.

If you're worried about "any modification to the suspension" read it and see that it is concerned with physical mods. Then read Section 3.3. In the case of LLAMS it has no effect when you're not using it.

Yes, you could raise it to +50mm and drive fast, but then that's a permitted lift anyway, and what about manual difflocks which have no speed override? You can flick one of those in at any speed and good luck then.

If anyone has other regulations stating LLAMS or rods are illegal, post them up for Vic or other states.

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Originally Posted by rmp

I still do not see any reason why LLAMS is not legal. Or rods for that matter.

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Neither do I - the only reason I can see for someone to refuse to fit them due to "legal" reasons is a poor interpretation of rules that no longer easily apply to the newer technologies out there, or a fear of playing with "new technology" they don't understand.

All these mods are relatively simple to fit, so as Nomadic3D says, do it yourself. There's no benefit in getting a shop to do it for you.

Cheers,

Gordon

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Originally Posted by gghaggis

Neither do I - the only reason I can see for someone to refuse to fit them due to "legal" reasons is a poor interpretation of rules that no longer easily apply to the newer technologies out there, or a fear of playing with "new technology" they don't understand.

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I think it's an old latin term used in the legal fraternity .....and many others these days......it's called "Anus Protectus"!!!!

Me thinks I might fit it myself:cool:

We can do a mass fitting next time I get the D3 owners together. Ashes and I are old hands now :-)

I do think the D3/D4 needs more clearance than the factory offroad setting and rods/Llams are just the thing.