Thread: D4 - 2 Year Service Cost

Re what graeme said re rear belt drives hp, no timing, and oil pump.

heh.... I have both a mirror, good LED torches, have a mind that works in reverse.... and have done quite a number of them now to be able to have the time to think "and why am I working on Land Rovers???" ..... cuz I love it!! and Im just that little bit more out there, I also work on Freelanders lol lol, thank godness its Friday.

Every now and then I see comment that are just way over the top, one being the "oh remove body to do timing belt" and the other was remove engine on a 70 series V8 to change the starter motor..... both lets face it are slightly out there.......

Re poor timing, I never remove the starter motor...... I have been through this with countless people..... tell me how it can possibly be out, its a arguement I have had many many times, understand how it all works and then come back. Ive not had a "odd running" tdv6 nor a failure since the D3, RRS has been out.

the dealer $2800... you can do a lot lot better from a specialist Land Rover repairer, at a min remove $1000 ........

Originally Posted by DazzaTD5

Re what graeme said re rear belt drives hp, no timing, and oil pump.

heh.... I have both a mirror, good LED torches, have a mind that works in reverse.... and have done quite a number of them now to be able to have the time to think "and why am I working on Land Rovers???" ..... cuz I love it!! and Im just that little bit more out there, I also work on Freelanders lol lol, thank godness its Friday.

Every now and then I see comment that are just way over the top, one being the "oh remove body to do timing belt" and the other was remove engine on a 70 series V8 to change the starter motor..... both lets face it are slightly out there.......

Re poor timing, I never remove the starter motor...... I have been through this with countless people..... tell me how it can possibly be out, its a arguement I have had many many times, understand how it all works and then come back. Ive not had a "odd running" tdv6 nor a failure since the D3, RRS has been out.

the dealer $2800... you can do a lot lot better from a specialist Land Rover repairer, at a min remove $1000 ........

dazza, these are banned from my workplace


jc

If the belt has any stretch or the notches are worn just a little then the crankshaft can be off its mark, probably not by much and probably not enough to notice the performance difference especially being a 3.0 although fuel consumption could suffer but repeat the process each time the belt is changed and the valve timing can get further and further retarded. Removing the starter to change the turbo drain pipe took a little time but refitting it was quick, knowing exactly what was needed. I'll take the extra time to R&R the starter to ensure the valve timing is spot-on. With the crankshaft pin fitted, if the camshaft pins go in then I'll know that I've wasted my time.

I indeed have a work mirror on an extendable handle along with a good work lights. I'm hoping my tendency to memorise difficult procedures will reduce the need to see what's being done.

Originally Posted by tempestv8

And oil is cheap so no big deal if it requires a top up, which it incidentally doesn't once the engine has been fully run in.

Sorry but on the point above - hundreds of owners will disagree with that one...

You're experience with the LC200 is very different to your last 4wd because your use of the vehicle is completely different to what you did in the last one!!!


What I find funny is that people baulk at the pricing of a service on a highly technical vehicle, where just checking each item, connection, link etc can take a significant time, and then to diagnose comes with a significant outlay in hardware and software...

Of course rear places are going to charge more, that's why the showroom looks great, why the workshops are large, technically up to date, EPA compliant, subject to OH&S audits, have multiple work bays, loan vehicles etc...

Compare this to a smaller operation and one can easily see that the running costs, overheads and price per unit costs will be significantly different.


And then the people who want to buy these vehicles often run decent 6 figure salaries.

How many of you would want to earn less than you do now? We live in a country where most people are very well paid (compared to many places OS)?

Well the dealer principle wants the same, his workers want decent wages, and to get this - his clients expect a high profile showroom and service centre.

I would hope a quality mechanic is paid $40-$45 an hour.
After payroll tax, super, etc and another staff member to process said legal requirements it all adds up!!!
That $160+ labour charge gets eaten up pretty quick!

When looked at like this it's easy to understand the pricing structure.


Toyota, hasn't built a vehicle with an original idea in it for decades - it's all a knock off of pioneers in motor engineering - and using old, outdated tech in other areas. Toyota almost give vehicles to mining companies - and gouge the public on theirs!

Their showrooms are simple, and the service department has techs who service everything from a Lexus to a Yaris - they still have huge overheads but are subsidized for services for 60,000km etc combined with a larger product range and the economy of scale improves.

Applying this same logic, computer companies are thieves, software companies pirates, and IT support companies Rapists...

Seen the rates these service companies slug? Or how much a mass produced Silicone chip is priced at?

Priced a big screen Tv? If you went to the buyers markets OS and found out how much they cost you would cringe! But we pay without issue...

Mind set is interesting!

Originally Posted by justinc

dazza, these are banned from my workplace


jc

lol ohhhh come on am I the only Land Rover guy that works on Freelanders?? I know 2 in Perth wont touch them, but thats only because they are old and grumpy!! I just see them as like working on a Toyota Rav 4, just not-so-well-thought-out............

Apart from the 2.5lt and coolant leaks, the engine rattles, slip liners, oil leaks, perhaps some transmission issues, driveline "issues".... did I mention driveline issues.....(wont mention ABS issues, thats all Land Rovers isnt it??) I think I might like them.....

Its all about care and maintenance, the poor Freelander gets hammered.... I think I might go post in the Freelander section.... there is a Freelander section right?????

Regards
Daz

Originally Posted by Graeme

If the belt has any stretch or the notches are worn just a little then the crankshaft can be off its mark (snipped)

Absolutely spot on, I dont argue this point at all, but (not meaning to tell anyone how to suck eggs) Although you know that maybe the belt has stretched or worn to a degree it hasnt worn a tooth out and as anyone that is doing it for a living (another words, doing it all the time) can understand, that yes when you are fitting the new belt, you are doing that slight move etc etc to get it fitted. Generally timing belts I have ever done, Ive always set it up as per specs, then I do the paint marks on the gears, old belt, housing where available, the paint marks get put onto the new belt, Yes when the new belt goes on, you do sometimes find the marks are slightly off (we are talking mm here) due to the fact the new belt basically is shorter etc etc etc.....

The end result the timing fuel or valve cant be out, I understand your point but with the new belt you have set it back to its original spec. pretty well every TB I've done on a D3, RRS, at that what 160 - 180, 200K looked like new.

There is a lot of generalisation and assumptions in what I have said, as in Im only commenting from a repairers point of view....

Regards
Daz

Daz, do you loosen the bolts on one or both camshafts? If not then you're safe, assuming the timing was already correct.

Originally Posted by Tombie

What I find funny is that people baulk at the pricing of a service on a highly technical vehicle, where just checking each item, connection, link etc can take a significant time, and then to diagnose comes with a significant outlay in hardware and software.


And then the people who want to buy these vehicles often run decent 6 figure salaries.

But you still have to get value for money,no matter how much your earnings are.

For me,i don't mind paying the big bucks,but if you don't get the good quality workmanship to go with it,well it isn't good value at all...

I have found the quality of the workmanship does not match the price.

If my independant charged the same price as the dealers,i would still stick with the inde.

And small businesses still have enormous overheads.

Ask someone who has owned one for over 23yrs

Its often the case they can operate more efficiently,the larger the organisation,inefficiency seems to creap in,which leads to overcharging.

Oh,and maybe they have sorted the LC200 TD,mate of mine has had one for almost two yrs,never used a drop of oil,and he tows a huge van.