Which is better Off Road a D3/4 or a late model Defender? ... Puma 110

Wow TerryO......creating a post to reassure your ego is a waste of every bodies time and energy.

Type in "land rovers toughest vehicle" into google and see what comes up........its a defender not a discovery with a bloke wearing some fancy polo shirt drinking a mocha latte frape chino.

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Originally Posted by 1nando

I agree about 4wd action being very biased towards toyota and nissan, also find them quiet arrogant and ignorant in many ways.
I disagree that Milo is a hunk of junk, if thats what you call junk then thats your opinion. In my opinion i have to pay respect to a 30 odd year old truck that has done more kms and seen more of this great country than what ill ever manage to do in my landy (i have a job, a mortgage and a Mrs to stop me from doing all that, i see what i can when i get the time off).

I also agree that the d4 is a highly capable 4wd vehicle.

I also believe that it is hard and very expensive to increase the d4s capabilities beyond factory spec as it has too many fancy gadjets and is way to sophisticated to be playing around with and the rim and tyres choices are ridiculous.

I manage a sand yard, supplying building materials to builders and trades as well as transport and logistics to other sand yards utilizing our truck and dogs. What ive learned over many years of transport is that the simpler the truck the less heasdaches, the less fancy equipment less headaches, the more basic a cabin less breakages etc.....we run Hinos, Macks, Kenworths, Isuzus, Mitshubishis and let me tell you there is a reason we do not run fancy Scanias or Mercedes that have every fancy gadjet under the sun, its becuase they are not up to the sort of messy, heavy haulage work we do. Most people here say that the puma engines are not adequate in the defender and that LR should have shoved some massive v8 in the engine bay similar to the landcruiser. These people are ignornant and do not understand the principles of a working vehicle which the defender is by the way. These same people would jump in one of our truck and dogs fully loaded and say they are under powered when in fact they are top specs. They arent race trucks they are work horses and the defender is no different. They are 6 cyclinder diesel turbos, not v12 twin turbo 2 million horse power dyno queens! The puma is exactly the same principle, great bore:stroke ratio, torque where you want it and a chassis to match its intended purpose.

My 2013 110 is not as comfy as a disco, not as sophisticated as a disco, not as fast as a disco.......but when it comes to offroad id pick my defender any day of the week. If i was taking the family camping I'd take the disco.

Ps; it would be great to have a 4wd day with d4s vs defenders.....the ultimate test..anyone?

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I posted this earlier but read it agian. The same principles aplly to proper offroad 4wds in my opinion. If you want to own the "scania" of 4wds then its your choice. Just be prepared for the long term complex issues steming from a over complicated platform catered to look good at the school parking lot. It screams adventure when its prime hunting ground is the concrete jungle.

Wasnt me :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by jon3950

I find this an odd argument. My new Defender is costing me $60k. I don't want to abuse it any more than I wanted to abuse my Disco. I do want to enjoy using it offroad as much as I have enjoyed the Disco.

Repairing panel damage on a Defender is just as expensive to do properly as it is on a Disco. That fact that you are able to live with a battered vehicle has more to do with its age and condition.

I'm not knocking that but would you be happy going out and bending panels on a new Defender that you just shelled $60k or more out on? If not its irrelevent to this argument, which is about the offroad capability of new vehicles.

Cheers,
Jon

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The thing is you can reinforce the more exposed panels on a defender and all panels start higher.
The other thing that's ignored is replacing glass to keep going. No answer, no challenge, must be correct then. :twisted:

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Originally Posted by 1nando

Wow TerryO......creating a post to reassure your ego is a waste of every bodies time and energy.

Type in "land rovers toughest vehicle" into google and see what comes up........its a defender not a discovery with a bloke wearing some fancy polo shirt and a mocha latte frape chino.

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Talking about ego, it's definitely not mine that is feeling insecure and in need of reassurance, given a couple of the churlish responses it would seam that a few Defenders owners are feeling a little threatened about how good their pride and joys are given the many comments by a large number of Disco owners.

Everyone is allowed an opinion, even me believe it or not. My various comments expressing my opinions add up to less than 5% of all the comments so far in this thread in total.

Yes I have said I believe a late model Disco is just as good if not better than a Defender in many cases given parity with tyres and I have said that late model Disco's have character just like many Defender owners say their vehicles have.
If that upsets some of you so be it, yes Defender owners are very passionate about their vehicles and many truly believe they own the only proper 4wd on the planet, that's fine, but rather than trying to be insulting why not offer actual proof rather than just twaddle about Disco's are inferior because their owners don't like getting scratches or Defenders are tougher because everyone knows that or something else just as pointless.

This has been a very good discussion so far until several of you have felt the need to make it personal. I expect several Defender owners though that the Disco owners would just lay down and take as gospel their words of wisdom about how the Defender is the best 4wd vehicle there is. Yes I accept a Defender is a excellent 4wd, I have always believed it is but no matter what some of you think it's not the only good 4wd out there.

So how about getting back on topic and actually discussing the points and actually explaining why a late model Defender is better off road than a late model Disco on similar size and spec tyres, because to date not to many of you have even attempted to address that.

1st: price of a disco is significantly dearer
2nd: load carrying ability. Defender 110 is 1000kg and D4 is 750kg
3rd: cargo area is bigger in the 110
4th: fuel usage on a fully loaded D4 is significantly more than a fully loaded 110. Bigger engine more fuel. Draw back when remote travelling
5th: better angles of approach, traversing etc
6th: 1/2 a ton lighter
7th: bigger tyres with solid axles provide better clearance when flexed
8th: better torque delivery where you need it.....down low and controlled delivery not aggressive and therefore maintains better traction.
9th: the body presents the perfect canvas to add bits and pieces to better cater for bush adventure/travel
10th: simpler design= less to go wrong.
11th: stood the test of time.....


Need i say more?
Ticks a few boxes in my opinion!

I forgot the best point;

12th: its one of the most recognized and iconic vehicles of all time. Its a timeless vehicle that has evolved marginally over time, excellent in its conception and refined over years to suit its intended purpose. A purposeful vehicle that built a culture and will leave behind a legacy that the world will not forget when LR stops production. Its the grandfather of the LR badge and the "bar" that other 4wds are compared too.

....and its a bloody pleasure to drive and its just bloody "cool"!

Well when you put it like that, sounds like the defender should have a few awards to its name...
You know...
Like the discovery platform winning 4wd of the year...
9 years in a row...

Sent from my HTC One using AULRO mobile app

Until a river crossing that fried the computer! Was reported pretty well in 4wd action if i recall correctly

Also, going back to the question of which is better offroad, I've listed 11 real world points. If you believe the disco is better please address each point which i believe is fundamental to touring/offroad and create a argument for the disco.

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Originally Posted by 1nando

1st: price of a disco is significantly dearer Irrelevant
2nd: load carrying ability. Defender 110 is 1000kg and D4 is 750kg Good, but this makes the Defender better at carrying a load, not driving over rough ground.
3rd: cargo area is bigger in the 110 Also good, but still doesn't make it better off-road
4th: fuel usage on a fully loaded D4 is significantly more than a fully loaded 110. Bigger engine more fuel. Draw back when remote travelling Agreed
5th: better angles of approach, traversing etc Agreed. Definate advantage.
6th: 1/2 a ton lighter Big advantage in my opinion. The downside of this is much of the extra weight in the Disco goes in to making the structure more solid. A big plus if you come to grief off-road.
7th: bigger tyres with solid axles provide better clearance when flexed In many circumstances yes. However there would be some situations where the Disco's suspension would have clearance advantages
8th: better torque delivery where you need it.....down low and controlled delivery not aggressive and therefore maintains better traction. No. Here the Disco has an advantage. Torque delivery is brilliant.
9th: the body presents the perfect canvas to add bits and pieces to better cater for bush adventure/travel Yes, if that floats your boat. Or it just gives you the ability to bolt more useless crap to it and so reduce that 1/2 ton weight advantage.
10th: simpler design= less to go wrong. Simpler design yes, but poor constructability of the design means things are more likely to go wrong. So much of this benefit is lost.
11th: stood the test of time.....No it hasn't. That's why it's being discontinued.


Need i say more?
Ticks a few boxes in my opinion! I do agree with this bit though.:D

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Cheers,
Jon

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Originally Posted by 1nando

I forgot the best point;

12th: its one of the most recognized and iconic vehicles of all time. Its a timeless vehicle that has evolved marginally over time, excellent in its conception and refined over years to suit its intended purpose. A purposeful vehicle that built a culture and will leave behind a legacy that the world will not forget when LR stops production. Its the grandfather of the LR badge and the "bar" that other 4wds are compared too.

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That's probably the greatest thing about a Defender, but how does it make it better off-road than a Disco?

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Originally Posted by 1nando

....and its a bloody pleasure to drive and its just bloody "cool"!

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No argument with that.

Cheers,
Jon