Thread: Which is better Off Road a D3/4 or a late model Defender? ... Puma 110

Gordon is crazy.Seen him do stuff in a brand new D3 that a normal person wouldnt do in a bashed up series
Gordon,Aaron40 and I just both discovered how poor the 19" tyres are in soft deep sand over the last few days.Until then we had Ron trading in his yet to be delivered Defender on a D4 Something about the quietness,the smoothness of the 8 speed,oh,and the way it can take off with a 1.5 tonne camper trailer hanging off the back,and the economy doing so
It seems anything over 20lbs wont work.15lbs went well,BUT the tyres look almost flat on hard ground.Aaron did get stuck with 25lbs trying to park off the traffic track.Was impresed how well the max tracks worked.
We both decided we need 18" rims if we want to do much beach work.We also discussed doing the sand training at some stage.
Mine got stuck a few times too,was able to get it out by airing down futher.The sand there at Horrocks seemed coarser and softer than we are used to in the south west.All 3 of us believe our D2s wouldnt have had dramas.Having said that,that sand could have been hard for D2s,didnt have one handy to try





Andrew

Dare I suggest the reasons the D3/4 doesn't do CV's and drive shafts is a combination of tyre size (diameter, most only have problems with the Defender CV's once they get past 33" tyres, we won't mention the P38 diff and Sals axles were definitely made from cheddar) sophisticated TC (less shock loading on the drive line) and probably better design and material spec (which wouldn't be hard compared to some of the Deefer stuff, it is crap, and LR have continually downgraded specs over the last twenty five years, the last twelve months capping it off by installing an inferior 2 gear centre diff)

Originally Posted by LandyAndy

Gordon is crazy.Seen him do stuff in a brand new D3 that a normal person wouldnt do in a bashed up series
Gordon,Aaron40 and I just both discovered how poor the 19" tyres are in soft deep sand over the last few days.Until then we had Ron trading in his yet to be delivered Defender on a D4 Something about the quietness,the smoothness of the 8 speed,oh,and the way it can take off with a 1.5 tonne camper trailer hanging off the back,and the economy doing so
It seems anything over 20lbs wont work.15lbs went well,BUT the tyres look almost flat on hard ground.Aaron did get stuck with 25lbs trying to park off the traffic track.

Andrew

Book into the next sand training in Perth - dates should be up next week. You'll get the AULRO moderator's discount ;-)

Originally Posted by rick130

Dare I suggest the reasons the D3/4 doesn't do CV's and drive shafts is a combination of tyre size (diameter, most only have problems with the Defender CV's once they get past 33" tyres, we won't mention the P38 diff and Sals axles were definitely made from cheddar) sophisticated TC (less shock loading on the drive line) and probably better design and material spec (which wouldn't be hard compared to some of the Deefer stuff, it is crap, and LR have continually downgraded specs over the last twenty five years, the last twelve months capping it off by installing an inferior 2 gear centre diff)

All that's true, but LR have continually stated that the T5 is the strongest they have ever built, independent of any other factors.

Cheers

Gordon

Originally Posted by gghaggis

Book into the next sand training in Perth - dates should be up next week. You'll get the AULRO moderator's discount ;-)

Charge Andrew double Gordon for taking the discussion off topic. ...

...

Originally Posted by gghaggis

The T5 Disco 3 / 4 and RRS have the strongest chassis LR have ever built.

Cheers

Gordon

Strongest or stiffest Gordon ?

Big difference.

Look at a truck chassis and they have the torsional rigidity of a wet noodle.
They aren't stiff, but they can cope easily with heavy loads as they are strong.

I can imagine the T5 chassis is immensely stiff and very strong, lots of FEA would have gone into it, the Deefer chassis was just a deeper section version of the RRC/Disco 1 chassis with stiffening plates added for the 130 which would have been drawn up on a big drawing board 35 years ago.
It's still pretty strong even though it's only about 2mm wall and probably much stronger than its Japanese competitors that use a much shallower box section.

My D4 has been on some interesting off road trips. With other vehicles, including Defenders (highly modified ones at that)
The question "which is better" is clearly subjective to each persons needs.

Comfort, ease, versatility, reliability and safety the D4 is miles ahead.
"Real driving", character, repairability with a coat hanger and duct tape the Defender wins.

If money was no object I'd own one of each. Unfortunately the money Gods (and SWMBO) dictate that 1 capable off-roader is all I can afford, so my $ said the answer was a Disco.

As a repairer of both of these vehicle types from early 110 county to 2015 defenders and first up 2005 d3 all the way to current these are my thoughts... ( sorry if i am not helping here Terry just adding my 2c quickly) I have had a few d3 worked very hard and yes a broken cv or 2 and trashed wheel bearings, EPB siezed cables and ground away shoes, hydro bushes and lower ball joints , transfer case and spline wear, torque converter oil leaks from ground away seal due to sand and mud packed into bellhousing....😮😮, leaking shocks and all rear bushes, twice. and all this on ONE vehicle...😈. I have also seen the same if not worse on many , many defenders . ( minus of course the epb and other non defender issues) my point is that the both of them are capable and tough in their own ways but can still suffer from neglect or abuse causing failure and in many cases huge devaluation.
My thoughts on chassis strength between the two are that like everything else on a defender hasn't changed much in 35years and still does its job well☺ the D3 and on chassis is so, so strong and shows just what market leading design can do. I don't expect to see any of these corrode away or fail anytime soon. To the 'normal' user the Disco is a highly capable totally sublime offroad performer that is just brilliant on the highway too. The defender is on a different level and is aimed at a different use and demographic but is just at ease on the same tracks most of the time if driven correctly. Me personally?? Everytime I drive a SDV6 D4 i want one. Everytime I drive my 110 i am thankful i alreasy have an iconic vehicle and I'm thankful for that 😅😅

JC