Thread: Which is better Off Road a D3/4 or a late model Defender? ... Puma 110

Stop it...this thread is killing me. I might have a coronary laughing so much. It's brilliant!

Terry's original question should have been "which looks the coolest?" Then it would have been easy cause even D4 owners would concede the point and we could all go home.

Cheers

Cheers

Originally Posted by ozscott

Stop it...this thread is killing me. I might have a coronary laughing so much. It's brilliant!

Terry's original question should have been "which looks the coolest?" Then it would have been easy cause even D4 owners would concede the point and we could all go home.

Cheers

Cheers

C'mon - you know even then I wouldn't concede

Originally Posted by 1nando

If you still reckon it is then how about this;
You bring your disco on what ever size tyres you want and ill bring my puma on 33s and rear locked and you can use all the "automatic" crap you want and see who gets through what tracks. Dont worry ill bring a snatch strap for you

Terry O. you may have to take the D3 out of retirement now, let's do this ... I will bring my D2 though and let's see how we all go, I have some tracks in the Watagans in mind

Originally Posted by gghaggis

C'mon - you know even then I wouldn't concede

Naaa, fridge on wheels.....



(with tongue planted firmly in cheek as I usually use the "whitegoods on wheels" sobriquet for TLC's )

Originally Posted by Steve223

Terry O. you may have to take the D3 out of retirement now, let's do this ... I will bring my D2 though and let's see how we all go, I have some tracks in the Watagans in mind

Ps. Stefan your d2 is in a league of its own. 35s, twin locked and heavily modifeid drivetrain......dont think there would be many in this thread that could keep up with you

Originally Posted by 1nando

You know the puma has the advantage becuase of its bigger tyre size.....thats becuase it was designed for a purpose. You engineered this thread to have the same size tyres to take away the pumas advantage.

You've actually given me a great idea;

How about a thread along the lines off:

"Pumas are currently in high demand and people are paying high prices for them. Considering a d4 is only 10k more on average over a newish puma is it worth paying the extra?
Is the d4 better off road compared to a puma......if you take out the d4s automatic trickery is it actually any good off road?"

You see if i take something away that clearly gives a vehicle a huge advantage then it isnt a fair comparison!

If you still reckon it is then how about this;
You bring your disco on what ever size tyres you want and ill bring my puma on 33s and rear locked and you can use all the "automatic" crap you want and see who gets through what tracks. Dont worry ill bring a snatch strap for you

Oh here we go again ......

It's pretty clear that a lot of learned LR drivers (which includes others outside the D4 faction ) cannot figure why LR spend so much money on the best Traction Control/Stability Control ... etc, etc systems in the world and then accommodate a market that really does cater for the Mummy Run. I'm not being cheeky ..... it is a freakin enigma! I have no clue why that is.


However, the outcome is a car with brilliant systems, the toughest chassis, transmission, gearboxes, etc, etc that LR have ever built but it does come with some design limitations if you want to do 'rugged' 4WDing. I think it's been established that unmodified (either vehicle), the D4 has slightly less clearance in some areas (they are actually very 'clean' underneath ... unlike a Deefer), less body panel clearance and slightly less entry/exit angle clearance. The D4 has better blah, blah, blah ... (which there are shed loads of ).


However .... the bloody thing has wheels and tyres (size) that are not designed for any decent off-roading (but actually do a lot better than you'd imagine). They do however make the car bloody safe and allow it to perform well on any formed surfaces .... and I mean really, really, really well. However, refer to start of thread ..... it's an enigma .... but it is what it is. A wheel and tyre change is not a massive concession is it? Let's get serious and drop the crap.


Talking about the crap, I can guarantee that if a comprehensive requirements activity was commissioned (maybe by an independent agency) to create a measurable comparison field ..... in other words .... a whole bunch of tracks that actually test the cars through a serious of conditions that have been 'accredited' as off-road .... there would be a whole bunch of certain people on this forum that would claim that 90% of them are "not REAL off-roading"!


It would be a friggin waste of time.


For every one of those scenarios there would be a counter. But I'm pretty certain when it got to the REAL Off-Roading categories the Deefer guys would be sweating and seriously concerned (like turning a tight corner going up a seriously steep hill.... LOL .... no electronic wizardry required for that ) ..... not in all areas of course, but because the D4 would do much better in certain areas that you would/could imagine or ever give it credit for .... not that you'd ever get them (Certain Deefer guys) to lie down ... so as I said .... it would be a waste of time. As soon as 'THEY' no longer considered it meeting their criteria .... they'd pop smoke again.


For sure some D4 owners would do the same but most would actually be pretty chuffed at the overall results ... and be pretty surprised. Most wouldn't even realise that their shopping trolley could even be in this comparison.


As I said ... pointless exercise ...


Oh BTW ... would one of the Deefer Drivers seriously answer this .... stock standard .... how does a Deefer compare to a JEEP Wrangler in your interpretation of REAL off-roading scenarios? Don't you dare ignore this question .... :-)


Oh and more crap .... the whole point of the exercise is to establish whether all the shiny, heavy, aesthetic and safety stuff (constraints I think you'd call them) can be really compensated for by 'Wizardry' .... not that stronger stuff and better reliability really comes into that category ...... like that one?


So talking about removing that for a fair comparison is BS ... mind you .... a D4 would then be lighter than a Deefer .... smaller brakes, bigger wheels .... HELL - YEAH .... let's try that......LOL!!! A D4 Stripped right down ..... LOL!!!

Originally Posted by gghaggis

C'mon - you know even then I wouldn't concede

Thats a great looking rig Gordon. :thumbup:
We're here arguing like idiots......looking at that pic makes pretty proud to own a land rover. Theres something about the LR badge thats special.....probably the fact that i dont drive a toyota or a nissan and we're one of the smaller minoritys in the Australian 4wd scene.

Originally Posted by gghaggis

C'mon - you know even then I wouldn't concede

And you know when you actually get one of these mags to cough up some cred on a Landrover, let alone a Disco .... LOL!!! The Toyo boys would be throwing themselves under their substandard barges .... LOL!!!