Need to restore faith !!

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Originally Posted by Tombie

Prado aren’t reliable either.. bloody horrible POS....

LR has a reputation by volume... of course they’re going to have more failures. There’s more of them.

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I don’t understand your logic. By volume more Prados have been sold in Australia than Discoveries and they have had less issues. Yes the Disco is more comfortable and has a more advanced engine so although the Toyota engine is still not a POS it’s not as good as the disco. Lack of luxuries does not render it a POS either. I don’t agree that the disco is a POS either. Boy fan brand biased comments such as yours don’t bring any value to discussions which seek helpful and constructive opinions.

I have a D4 2011 HSE SDV6 AND a Chevy Silverado 2017. Believe me the Silverado is what you need for your type towing

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Originally Posted by Tombie

Digger and Basil135 will also agree...

This is the same dealer that the Service Manager in his Jag F-Pace, drove to Melrose last year to sort a small issue on Diggers vehicle before he went away for a week.

That’s a 600+km round trip to help a client.

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And me!! 😁
They couldn’t do enough when I had my problem a couple of years ago. Very easy to deal with, and considering I called in from another state,, nothing mattered to them, just so long as they got me going again.
Mud was actually really very appoligetic that they couldn’t find and fix the problem. They gave me a back up plan to work with for two different scenarios, one which involved them, and one for when/if we made it back home all right.
Excellent service.

I jumped ship!
Life and owning 4x4 doesnt need to be so complicated!

Goodluck

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Originally Posted by DiscoJeffster

We all should care. This is why the warranties cost so much. It’s fraud to be honest, performing unnecessary works, if there is an opportunity to repair it cheaper for no ongoing issue

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Well.....This is a classic insurance problem.

You as the customer with little mechanic knowledge, have to reply on your surrogate decision maker that is the mechanic to decide what you "need". This information problem (consumers are significant ignorant than the seller) will lead to supplier-induced-demand..,meaning the mechanic is Lilley to also say "maybe you want a bigger turbo mate, a exhaust is a must, and also how about a chip or remap? And also I would recommend a paint protection product. It's good for your car".

While theoretically they, the sellers have considerable conflicts of interest to offer you, the customer, a honest opinion that will be cost effective.

All these combine with a third party payer. Meaning you the customer don't pay directly, so that you don't have any brake on this spending frenzy..Hehe
This is the typical insurance ****hole scenario


Ideally I would like an Mechanic that only produce diagnosis, list of parts required and estimated labour, plus a list of potential complications due to the repair (I.e. when removing the engine, there is 15% chance the coolant hose will be damaged. No a problem you simply add 15%* coolant hose replacement cost to the estimation. But this diagnosis mechanic doesn't do the job. You pay him $400

And you take the results to someone who will do the job.....

But I am just dreaming....Haha

Cheers

I don’t get why people want to get on this forum and unload on Land Rovers. I use this forum to connect about my car. The last place you would see me is on a Toyota forum trying to get some sort of sick enjoyment out of someone else’s misfortune.

I have owned Disco’s for over 20 years. Love everything about them. Best mate has owned Prados for 15 years and won’t change for his own reasons and we are all ok.

If you are truly happy with your Toyota go and enjoy it. You don’t need to justify your decision to compromise on technology and comfort by trolling this site.

Unfortunately, it seems that Land Rover Australia is open to such dealer behaviour. I am aware of several similar "repairs" which, with the benefit of further investigation and hindsight, appear to be grossly complicated and expensive. But it appears LRA is quite happy to fork out the cost, and naturally enough, the dealers are quite happy to receive it.

The work is probably done thoroughly, but also probably unnecessarily.

That I am aware of, engine changes, gearbox changes, various complicated engine parts, (and now turbine controllers), are all the subject of this behaviour.

Perhaps LRA simply doesn't care (they are probably insured anyway); perhaps they know no better. But the annoying part of all of this is that in the long run, it is costing we owners a lot more for service than it should.

But rest assured; this practice is not only with Land Rover dealers. I personally have had the experience with Ford dealers as well. Cases where enormously costly "repairs" or "replacements" have been rejected in favour of a "short cut" of simpler work which has led to many years of further, trouble free, operation of the vehicle.

It seems to be the nature of the beast.

Caveat emptor

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Originally Posted by Nankas

I don’t get why people want to get on this forum and unload on Land Rovers. I use this forum to connect about my car. The last place you would see me is on a Toyota forum trying to get some sort of sick enjoyment out of someone else’s misfortune.

I have owned Disco’s for over 20 years. Love everything about them. Best mate has owned Prados for 15 years and won’t change for his own reasons and we are all ok.

If you are truly happy with your Toyota go and enjoy it. You don’t need to justify your decision to compromise on technology and comfort by trolling this site.

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I personally like Toyota’s, I also like LR as well as Nissan’s. I am a member of LR, Toyo and Nissan forums. I don’t brand bash regardless of the make of 4x4 which I own at the time. They all have their pros and cons. Fan boy was the one who decided to brand bash in lieu of providing facts and constructive information. Anyone who chooses to make those type of ignorant comments on ANY forum is wasting the readers time. Get your facts right or get some new glasses before responding to posts buddy.

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Originally Posted by Spinner912

Unfortunately, it seems that Land Rover Australia is open to such dealer behaviour. I am aware of several similar "repairs" which, with the benefit of further investigation and hindsight, appear to be grossly complicated and expensive. But it appears LRA is quite happy to fork out the cost, and naturally enough, the dealers are quite happy to receive it.

The work is probably done thoroughly, but also probably unnecessarily.

That I am aware of, engine changes, gearbox changes, various complicated engine parts, (and now turbine controllers), are all the subject of this behaviour.

Perhaps LRA simply doesn't care (they are probably insured anyway); perhaps they know no better. But the annoying part of all of this is that in the long run, it is costing we owners a lot more for service than it should.

But rest assured; this practice is not only with Land Rover dealers. I personally have had the experience with Ford dealers as well. Cases where enormously costly "repairs" or "replacements" have been rejected in favour of a "short cut" of simpler work which has led to many years of further, trouble free, operation of the vehicle.

It seems to be the nature of the beast.

Caveat emptor

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Actually....

All I can say is this is aweflly similar to healthcare spending problem....

Actually Land Rover Australia do have a capitation payment that is to combat the inflated prices , caused by the third party payer problem I mentioned above.

The capitation payment is simply a pre-set list of labour required for a repair. Say $500 for 3 hours to replace the turbo hose, no matter what year, how dirty the thing is, how many mods the truck has that maybe in the way and you have to spend time to remove them so that dealer may end up losing money

It's a capitation payment system similar to the DRG system used in public hospitals (yeah hospitals get paid by the number of case they done, just like the dealer hehe

The capitation system will generate skimming, meaning dealers with either A. Choose the easiest of the job done and deny less profitable repairs or B. Escalate the case group to a bigger higher and more expensive case group.

This behavour is predicted by economist more than 50 years ago

this explains why dealers will either cherry pick the easy fix and do it immediately; or make the fixing bigger so that they can get more money

For example your car need a turbo hose replacement. Land rover say this repair will only be reimbursed $500. However it is likely to cost the dealer $700 in reality due to the crappy access to those components.
The dealer may say "screw this I don't want to lost money fixing stupid car" but dealer has to repair it under contact. So the dealer will say " hang on the coolant hose looks rubbed and that's no good," and it's dead easy to replace coolant hose compared to turbo hose.
So now dealer will replace both hoses and get reimbursed by Land Rover

Land rover Australia doesn't have a good solution. Otherwise LRA will be the leader in solving healthcare spending worldwide...

The only seemingly working solution is dealer get fixed salary but the workload mustn't be perceived as "too much" (this is all just plain theory....


does it make you feel any better OP?
I surely hope so. It's just human behavior under incentives and nothing else. You shouldn't have hoped for altruism or communism.

I believer every car manufacturers have the exact same problem. And it seems Toyota has a stricter capitation system making dealers really reluctant to repair anything.

Thats right. I am saying you should think land rover is great because they replace the diff etc... It's because LR dealers are financially incentived to do so

Same goes for Toyota. Their dealers may be financially incentived to deny repairs...Who knows...

Cheers
Martin

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Originally Posted by specwarop

If you want reliability, get a Prado.
Land Rovers have a horrible reputation for reliability in the UK...

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I bought a brand new Prado in 2007 and it was the worst car I have ever had - I put up with it for 4 years - The injectors were faulty and Toyota would not replace them until 3 years later after continued dialogue. Due to the faulty injectors the car had very poor performance and the motor rattled and pinged badly when cold. After a trip to the Kimberlys the inner guards under the bonnet cracked and the thing rattled like a bucket of bolts. you could hear me coming from a mile away. The Toyota bullbar fell to pieces and I lost my expensive driving lights on the Mitchell Falls track. Took the car to Darwin toyota and they would not fix the bullbar under warranty and in any case they did not have any in stock. Transfer case oil leaks, front shocker lower bushes required replacing 3 times over the 4 years of ownership and the rear handbrake assembly broke on the Oodnadatta track. Could not get the disk rotor off to repair due to the handbrake mechanism jammed. Servicing was expensive.
Got rid of the thing and bought a used Range Rover Sport and stuck with land rovers ever since due to comfort and reliability. I haven't heard of any 'horrible reputations" in the UK - the disco 1's and early freelanders had some issues but I haven't heard of the later models having any issues - no more than any other vehicle.