Thread: D4 3.0 SDV6 catastrophic failure

Originally Posted by Melbourne Park

He stays in touch with what is going on. the 200 4.5 V8 had lots of issues when I bought my Disco ... Toyota eventually resolved most of them. But I'm towing, so that puts things in a different light.

As far as 300s go, there isn't much choice is there? Patrol is being replaced, from my reading of the Defender it has severe limitations and is small for me, the Grenadier is great IMO but not for the city ... the Everest which is smaller but seems capable except for the quality issue and its gearbox. I wonder if the engine is fixed? So no wonder the 300 as so expensive - Toyota can charge a very high price because the competition is weak, and they can rely on reputation, which IMO is falling. The revised models do cost more though ... and IMO the VX is far more city capable than the GXL, because its surround cameras will allow any driver to park it in an underground supermarket car park plus some maybe unnecessary luxuries. But to pay $15k more for surround cameras which all the Prados have, makes me think rip off.

There is lots of talk about issues with the new motor. Dust won't kill the car, but they leak badly via the rear door. That would really annoy me as the car must have been sorted for Australia, surely. Sequential turbo issues, various software CU updates trying to resolve those issues. The oil issues too. In South Africa some owners have got refunds. Toyota stopped production of the 300 series too. Evidently due to failing to properly test the exhaust ... same issue happened with the Hilux and Prado here, Toyota found guilty for a large number of vehicles. Eventually Toyota will sort it out IMO. Hopefully for you the update version will have more issues resolved, so good luck. I don't know what resources my Indy has, but he's well connected IMO. Realistically though, towing over the vehicle's weight is dangerous, and the 300 is lighter. When one adds GVM capacity via spring upgrades, then you loose your motor and drivetrain warranty. Most do that when towing, but it's not worth it IMO. Which really means Grenadier, 79 series, or a USA made big ute. Or Iveco or another type of 4WD "light" truck, all which feature reliability but gutless diesel motors which may be 5 litres but develop 340 Nm torque ...

Oh well,cross the 300 off the list,even the rear door seal leaks dust(a huge issue), they replaced a few under warranty,which did fix the problem.
I see quite a few Patrols pulling blocks of flats,and the ocassional D5,so there are other options in the large wagons.

Everyone has different needs,the surround cameras is something we would never use,same as the sunroof.The upgraded headlights,sound system,larger infotainment screen,synthetic leather would be the kicker for us.Worth an extra $15K,i doubt it.The GXL is also slightly lighter,for those that run on the weight limits.
Rear seats can come out of them to reduce weight even more,if they are not used.

Not much else suits,so maybe like others have said do some work on the D4 and keep it for a few more years?
If you cant do the work yourself,you just have to hope the work is done properly,but the vehicle will still be 10 plus yrs old.

Anyway,good luck with what you do,and i hope it all works out.

And on a side note,friends of ours pull a huge Kedron off road van around,and have done full time for almost 4 yrs,using a stock 2018, LC200,professionally weighed,all fine.
It does have rear airbags,and A/T tyres,and there is only two of them.So it can be done if the weights are sorted correctly,but i know this sort of set up only suits some,it wouldn't suit us.
That is why i had the upgrade on ours,so we don't have to continually worry about the weights.
And it rides well when empty,not as some say,rough as guts.
There are upgrades,and there are upgrades....

Originally Posted by scarry

. ... using a stock 2018, LC200,professionally weighed,all fine.
It does have rear airbags,and A/T tyres,and there is only two of them.

The air bag issue is an interesting one. I have looked at 200s too ... could have bought a Sahara from a dealer - a 2016 with 46,000km - for 100k on the road. I have just found them dead to drive around town, and not at all precise on the highway. Beige interior was an issue too. And paying that much for an old car seems crazy to me. The Patrol's fuel consumption is all over the place, but I suspect the turbo V6s will be even more variable in their fuel consumption. Our Australian Off Road vans owners group, have shown the difference in fuel consumption towing 2.3 tonne in similar vans to mine, is very close to the same between both the Patrol and the 200 vehicles. And now one gets 300k and 10 year warranty on a Patrol. The 300 though will be great on fuel, and it's quiet and powerful.

Glad you're getting air bags because there is a misnomer about steel sprung vehicles being legal when towing a 350 kg tow ball. Now I haven't done the proper maths, but I've looked at reviews, and the vehicles like the 300 dip when 350kg is attached to their tow ball. Now considering levers and balance, if the vehicle is horizontal and the vehicle has dipped at the back, then there is weight transfer to the tow ball and the weight is no longer 350kg. So if one attaches 350kg to the vehicle, and it dips down, lets say a slight angle of 15% which happens more easily with a short wheelbase like the Prado and 300 have (and all the full size 80/100/200s) then using a cosine on that angle and a proportional increase, then that is 361 kg. Meanwhile there is also magically more weight on the rear axle. While with the Land Rover, it's still horizontal, and still legal. Of course, Land Rover sales guys wouldn't know about such stuff. They these days sell to city folk IMO.

Originally Posted by Melbourne Park

The air bag issue is an interesting one. I have looked at 200s too ... could have bought a Sahara from a dealer - a 2016 with 46,000km - for 100k on the road. I have just found them dead to drive around town, and not at all precise on the highway. Beige interior was an issue too. And paying that much for an old car seems crazy to me. The Patrol's fuel consumption is all over the place, but I suspect the turbo V6s will be even more variable in their fuel consumption. Our Australian Off Road vans owners group, have shown the difference in fuel consumption towing 2.3 tonne in similar vans to mine, is very close to the same between both the Patrol and the 200 vehicles. And now one gets 300k and 10 year warranty on a Patrol. The 300 though will be great on fuel, and it's quiet and powerful.

Glad you're getting air bags because there is a misnomer about steel sprung vehicles being legal when towing a 350 kg tow ball. Now I haven't done the proper maths, but I've looked at reviews, and the vehicles like the 300 dip when 350kg is attached to their tow ball. Now considering levers and balance, if the vehicle is horizontal and the vehicle has dipped at the back, then there is weight transfer to the tow ball and the weight is no longer 350kg. So if one attaches 350kg to the vehicle, and it dips down, lets say a slight angle of 15% which happens more easily with a short wheelbase like the Prado and 300 have (and all the full size 80/100/200s) then using a cosine on that angle and a proportional increase, then that is 361 kg. Meanwhile there is also magically more weight on the rear axle. While with the Land Rover, it's still horizontal, and still legal. Of course, Land Rover sales guys wouldn't know about such stuff. They these days sell to city folk IMO.

I have seen a few posts on sites on the weight increase when a 350KG weight is on the tow bar.It also depends on how much weight is on the front of the vehicle,bars,winches,etc.
I cant remember the actual weights but i think it will usually increase to around 400KG,often more.

The 200 is a bit sluggish off the mark,unless it is given a bootfull,the power button sorts that out and seems to make little or no difference to fuel economy.
Not that i am fixated on fuel economy.
Yes,the price of them second hand is absolutely rediculous,i cant see it staying that high,but maybe with all these emission regs,some vehicle second hand prices will stay high.

If we were in the same position today,as we were in 2020,with an aging D4,we would probably buy a 300.We looked at the Patrol back then as well,but it was a bit bigger than the 200,and the wife didnt really like it.
At the moment the 200 suits our needs and i can't really fault it.The auto is not as smart as the ZF,but a good gearbox tune sorts that out,makes a huge difference.
The big fuel tank is very convenient,as is the tailgate set up.
I could never get more than 76L in the D4 which was painfull at times.
The D4 did hold the road better at high speed,but so it should,with IS all round and EAS.

It is also interesting that when pulling the huge weights,GCM of around 8T,and having an engine tune, is(apparently) causing engine issues in the 300.
Yet there are hundreds of thousands of 1 VDs around pulling the big weights all day,and tuned,with little or no issues.

UK Suppliers

Originally Posted by scarry

I have seen a few posts on sites on the weight increase when a 350KG weight is on the tow bar.It also depends on how much weight is on the front of the vehicle,bars,winches,etc.
I cant remember the actual weights but i think it will usually increase to around 400KG,often more.

The 200 is a bit sluggish off the mark,unless it is given a bootfull,the power button sorts that out and seems to make little or no difference to fuel economy.
Not that i am fixated on fuel economy.
Yes,the price of them second hand is absolutely rediculous,i cant see it staying that high,but maybe with all these emission regs,some vehicle second hand prices will stay high.

If we were in the same position today,as we were in 2020,with an aging D4,we would probably buy a 300.We looked at the Patrol back then as well,but it was a bit bigger than the 200,and the wife didnt really like it.
At the moment the 200 suits our needs and i can't really fault it.The auto is not as smart as the ZF,but a good gearbox tune sorts that out,makes a huge difference.
The big fuel tank is very convenient,as is the tailgate set up.
I could never get more than 76L in the D4 which was painfull at times.
The D4 did hold the road better at high speed,but so it should,with IS all round and EAS.

It is also interesting that when pulling the huge weights,GCM of around 8T,and having an engine tune, is(apparently) causing engine issues in the 300.
Yet there are hundreds of thousands of 1 VDs around pulling the big weights all day,and tuned,with little or no issues.

It's totally crazy to tune a 300 engine. I reckon they do it for internet ratings. It makes no sense at all, as the motor has a heap of poke already, it's a new generation motor and it's relatively highly tuned despite some interesting features, like its steel pistons.

My wife and I both liked the 300, and I found it easy to park. But to get the surround cameras means a VX, which is pretty pricy. I reckon the revised LC 300s around June , might be better too. Toyota is always increasing their prices, which makes them seem not to devalue. But if you have to buy another one, then it's a big dollar excercise. The Patrol does hold its value but not as well, but new ones are Prado prices. We drove a Sahara ZX which has the adjustable shockers, and its ride was phenomenal, I loved it. And they depreciate like crazy because GVM upgrade options seemed limited with them, and they are expensive. I thought the VX Prado LC 250 has much the same technology as the Sahara ZX. The Prado in Victoria is $96k drive away, while the Sahara ZX retails for $159,600 drive away. So $64k for the engine and a bit more room and some other more minor benefits. Hence I can see Toyota making lots on those. If one wanted to buy a ZX, well then I'd buy instead 20,000 km Lexus 600 diesel - the Sport luxury very luxurious one - for $5k more.

My wife really did not like the 200, due to its heavy in town ponderous steering, also its unresponsive around town. But she loved the Y62! But they'e dropped the Y62's surround cameras - we need to get one for several hours, and resolve if it's parkable in the close underground Coles supermarket. If I was to get a 200 and I haven't ruled it out, then we'd probably have to keep my wife's car. I imagine though I would not loose too much if I later sold the 200, presuming I bought well, which is very difficult to do at the moment!!

I contacted Lexus early to order a GX550 when I found it was coming, assuming it would get the 300's diesel. But the sales people came back and said definitely no diesel. So I did not go ahead. But I would still buy one IF it had fuel capacity - but there is no secondary tank available for them. It's bazaar how Toyota manipulate pricing with feature sets. The Prado has 110 litres of fuel, plus a 19 litre Ad Blue tank. While the Lexus GX just 80 litres for its tank, and there are no 3rd part tanks available. The attraction for me with that is I could get rid of my wife's vehicle, and we'd share. It's easier to share that sized vehicle, and city trips don't worry petrol vehicles like they do diesels.

The Y62 has those benefits and no turbos either, so I reckon it could outlast me!! It has heaps of room, rides everything brilliantly and is luxo IMO. But my wife parking it for shopping would probably rule it out.

I'll likely do preventative maintenance on the D4, as it still drives and feels new, plus it has most of the gear I need. It's really coming down to weight - as if I put a tank in place of the spare tyre, I'll need to put the tyre on the roof. I could not put on on the back due to weight at the back, plus they get in the way of an A-frame. Because of all that, it's why I am trying to accurately weight things at the moment.

Saving money and keeping the Disco is the preferred option although last trip we did, my wife got a sore back, first time in our Disco ... not sure what happened there ... but we have an AirBnB, and the chap and his wife there at the moment (for 6 weeks) has a electric Mustang in the UK and a Disco in there Scotland place ... its done 160,000 miles ... he's had two issues - the exhaust manifold had to be replaced. And since he travels, he left it for some months in Scotland and the hand brake rusted into the had brake drum, so he couldn't move it. He also was low on fuel, in a hurry and put petrol into it. Then he drove over 40 miles ... somehow it survived! He reckons he has a good Indy and that person's told him nothing major until 200,000 miles. 160k miles = 258,000 km. And 200,000 is 322,000 km. I asked him what motor, and he's go the 3 litre. A 2013 ... he reckons all the 3 litres came in the same state of tune in the UK, as far as he knows.

Today my son and I had a brief look at the main bearings from my son's siezed engine and those from the replacement engine.

The remnants of 1 main upper shell of the siezed engine was caught in the bearing cap, reduced to a thin piece of metal bent over the edges of the cap. Its anyone's guess as to how many times it rotated with the crankshaft before the adjacent big-end bearing welded to the crankshaft due to no oil. The level sensor and wiring was untouched so the engine had indeed lost all oil pressure.

Some of the main bearings of the replacement engine had already worn off the sputter layer by 120K kms, with 1 set very obviously having run on a tapered journal. The fitted trimetal bearings should last very much longer.

Originally Posted by Graeme

Today my son and I had a brief look at the main bearings from my son's siezed engine and those from the replacement engine.

The remnants of 1 main upper shell of the siezed engine was caught in the bearing cap, reduced to a thin piece of metal bent over the edges of the cap. Its anyone's guess as to how many times it rotated with the crankshaft before the adjacent big-end bearing welded to the crankshaft due to no oil. The level sensor and wiring was untouched so the engine had indeed lost all oil pressure.

Some of the main bearings of the replacement engine had already worn off the sputter layer by 120K kms, with 1 set very obviously having run on a tapered journal. The fitted trimetal bearings should last very much longer.

I hope they do, but I feel that it’s not the bearing material we need to worry about, but how does everything measure? Bearing clearances in check? Everything round?

Now with bearings designed to handle some wear, the engine should be good for at least another 200-300K even with an imperfect crankshaft. At least these bearings won't destroy the crankshaft, allowing the crankshaft to be ground and undersize bearings fitted when they wear enough.