Hoping to buy a 2002-2006 RR

**Homestar** · 17th July 2014, 11:11 AM

Originally Posted by Grumbles

I'd have thought that if a car had over pressurizing issues then it would be from something in the cooling system failing. I'd imagine from new that they didn't over pressurize so I'm at a loss to understand why when the car is older that the over pressurization can't be eliminated by replacing what ever the faulty part of the system is.

If you can work out a magic bullet, go over to the FFRR site and help out all the poor souls there that can't.

They did actually have an issue from the start I believe, but when new everything held together long enough for the warranty to expire. As soon as a hose gets a bit old, it will pop, as will the radiator.

Not sure if its just one issue or multiple issues, but it does seem to be the biggest fault with the earlier v8's

**Grumbles** · 17th July 2014, 12:22 PM

Well there you go. I had no idea that there was an endemic, non fixable issue from new with the V8s.

**rar110** · 17th July 2014, 02:54 PM

Originally Posted by chaybra

I got my FFRR a few months back, coming from heavy experience with off roading in other vehicle from suzuki sierras, classic rangies, discos to VW Touaregs, and my word I am still being amazed by the abilities of the rangie. I went for a late model TD6 (2006) apart from the stupid gear box using the TC slip instead of changing gear (Can be sorted with a modified computed from the EU) they are bang on. First thing I did with mine was service the gearbox and fit a HD tc (preventive maintenance) What ever you get you will be amazed at the engineering of these things

Is fitting a HD torque converter expensive? Is a trans service about the same cost as a D3?

**chaybra** · 17th July 2014, 03:12 PM

Originally Posted by rar110

Is fitting a HD torque converter expensive? Is a trans service about the same cost as a D3?

Cost $800 all up....i think? there are a few options for people who re manufacture the TC with HD components. a few fragments of clutch material had made it to the filter at 150K and i think it had the whole box done at 60k under warranty.

Now I drive with the TC in mind and try to lock it up as soon as I can from 60kph. I will be investing in the eco box tune as soon I sell my damn VW....any one want to buy a V8 Touareg?

**Laurie** · 17th July 2014, 03:38 PM

Check Harlie's posts on his box rebuild.
On thr Ffrr site one member said he changed the main V8 thermostat housing for a BMW equivelent, and had a lot better system. He believed the higher pressure system used in the RR was due to UK emission regs.

Laurie

**Laurie** · 17th July 2014, 04:23 PM

Found the link !

fullfatrr.com - View topic - 4.4 Thermostats - could it be this easy for a lower temp ?

Laurie

**Homestar** · 17th July 2014, 06:22 PM

Not sure - I've never really investigated it, I was just going off the main complaints I hear from V8 owners.

I've driven one and nearly bought it - silky smooth and more power than the diesel. I could live with its issues I think - I've managed to put up with all the ones that go with owning the diesel.

**harlie** · 18th July 2014, 07:37 AM

Originally Posted by rar110

Is fitting a HD torque converter expensive? Is a trans service about the same cost as a D3?

Fitting a HD converter to an original box is a band-aid solution; it will last a bit longer than the original but that’s it. Don’t bother.

These transmissions do not fail due to the TC. The TC is just the obvious symptom (when you loose drive, the box is opened and there are bits of TC clutch everywhere) – it is the symptom not the cause.

They fail due to pressure drop, once it looses pressure the TC slips and chews itself to bits – a HD converter will just last a bit longer before it goes the same way, then you’ll be on here harping on about how no one makes a converter that’s heavy enough… There are many people who have had a trans failure, fitted a HD converter without addressing the pressure issue - low and behold it lasts 4-12 months before they have no drive again. Spend some time with the guys who have been involved in the BMW warranty work for the last 15 years and there is a different line of advice from them.

Unfortunately due to the fact that the TC clutch is usually completely destroyed and all else visually looks fine, most people point to the TC. However, If you get the pressure components tested you find the real cause.

All BWMs (actually all makes) with the 5L40 have exactly the same problem. Can’t tell me the E46 318i with the 1.9 four pot that won’t pull the skin of a custard is eating TCs because they aren’t strong enough…

If you want to do a preventative fix. Do
· the valve body – easy to remove and the hydraulic specialist will test it and sleave/replace what needs doing.
· The main pump
· Pressure control regulator
· TC clutch replacement because it will be worn due to the pressure issues.
· To improve drivability ask for a 15% stall speed reduction while the TC is open.

When you sort your pressure you will notice it behaves quite differently – no need for software updates. The 5L40 has a fundamental design flaw related to pressure.

For the record, my box was removed at the first sign of TC clutch slip. 183k, 60k with 505nm retune, plenty of towing. The standard factory TC clutch looked near perfect apart from the obvious signs of recent heat from 2 days of slipping. There was some debris in the pan. It was last serviced at 175 at which point there was no debris in the pan. Because everyone told me that the trans would fail, I had done a crap load of research well before hand, knew what signs to look for, and had a good idea what to do when these slight signs started.

**Strangerover** · 18th July 2014, 08:32 AM

Great reply, Harlie- thanks for clearing this up.
Question- what did the initial slippage of the TC feel like? What should we look out for?

Sent from my GT-I9300 using AULRO mobile app

**harlie** · 18th July 2014, 10:35 AM

The first sign was vibration/harshness @ 80-85km/h when applying throttle on a nice hill – those who know Brisbane, for me it was Sth bound on the Gateway Bridge. At this speed it is in top gear with the TC locked and it is pretty steep (the gateway goes from near sea level on the north side to a height for ships to pass under).

My car did this 3 times over a week, same spot. I then tried below.

The simple definitive test is: with the TC clutch locked (say 90-95), give it plenty of throttle (but you don’t want a kick down), if it is slipping the RPM goes up but the speed doesn’t follow. The car should just bolt; it should feel like a manual. This is the same way we determined if the clutch was gone on our old manual cars – those were the days….

After the first conformation of the test above, I literally drove it straight to the BMW trans guru here in BNE – prior research had all pointed to him so I knew where to go. I waited 20mins or so, he and I went for a quick circle. He then explained to me what’s what. At this stage the car is still driving perfectly apart from those 2 symptoms above. By COB that day the box was out and the valve body and TC on their way to different specialists.

IMO some of these cars are being sold after the first signs are recognised, the owner takes it in and the trans specialist gives him the news. That night it is on carsales. This is why we have members here who have had trans failure nearly as soon as the bought the car. Looking back, it would have been easy to sell my car, other than these subtle signs it drove perfectly, which my wife kept saying when I arrived home in the loaner.

I owned the car for 6 years before it played up, if you aren’t familiar with the TD6 drive train, you would not notice anything wrong – do the definitive test. To make matters worse, the ECU doesn’t log anything until its way too late.

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