Thread: Disappointed in the D5 / waiting for the Defender

Originally Posted by rick130

I'm still trying to get my head around comparing a vehicle from the 80's without a locking diff in sight and suspension set up for the client to carry loads, vs a modified new vehicle?

Purchase justification anyone?

My old Deefer had 10" of travel in the front at the bump stops and it was only slightly higher than stock ride height without too much modification, I can't see a Rok achieving anything like that sort of articulation in a hurry without some serious reengineering.
It also carried a constant work load of around 7-800kg its entire working life, often at silly speeds speeds over indifferent roads.

The Deefer also outshone our then new GU Patrol coil ute on the farm, and was more comfortable, had better if minimalist seats, a better driving position but a cramped cab, yet on a trip the GU was so much quieter and had modern creature comforts, I wonder if I can sure Land Rover for my tinnitus?? (Joking!)
Swings and merry go rounds...

We all know the faults of the 90/110/130, we've discussed them ad nauseum and Land Rovers failure to address basic engineering issues over the years, but one area they've shone is off road, and as the years progressed at least Land Rover kept them current with excellent T/C although articulation had been comprised with anti-roll bars, and such a shame lockers were never an option from the factory....

Have to get back to work...

The Amarok has 9" of front travel, and just with slightly longer rear shocks mine has 15" of rear travel, the total of which is similar to a defender.

Originally Posted by rammypluge

If you only put 2" lift coils under a defender it ends up with hardly any droop, making it a POS. You need longer shocks and extended bumps stops at the least.

I would have assumed you would have thought if putting a 2" lift in you also fit shocks to suit!

NON Land Rover Vehicles

Thanks

So is there any more info about the new defender?

Rammy be honest and tell me a rough estimate of what its cost you to to run 33s. I had a good look at one in the car park and mate i cant see 33s fitting under it without a host of rubbing issues.

As for IFS suspension, yes it does have some areas of benefit however you can't beat solid axles for rutted and rocky terrain. Solid axles provide a smoother more calculated ride over obstacles. Solid axles allow for a much stronger drivetrain setup. I run ashcroft cvs which are guaranteed with upto 35s. An IFS truck will never be as strong as a solid axle vehicle.
The d5 has air suspension or whatever its called and thats why i wont buy it for my idea of offroad. There are obviously other reasons aswell such as stupid shape, too many overhanging/bloated panels and of course the price tag.
The level of modification to your rok is far beyond that of a standard one, im sure that your rig has had over 10k spent on it just to accommodate the larger tyres and suspension to suit, and keeping in mind everything that broke along the way. The other thing is that the lack of a transfer case makes it not as good of road. I can put my puma into 1st low and its so slow that even down a hill i could get out and walk next to it (not that i would, but you get my point).
Yes i gramt you that your Rok is a well "setup" truck, but its "setup" so when comparing it to other vehicles make it a even comparison. Im twin locked with a 10k drivetrain; would it be fair for me to compare it to a standard puma......of course not. D90 Orkney (Damo) on hear has a very impressive 90 puma thats modified heavily and has some of the best flex ive seen on any fender ever (youtube it). Would it be a fair comparison to compare it to my 110. Corse not! He'd get through a lot of places id get stuck.
Modification when done correctly is great and you should be stoked you have a great setup. Had you bought a puma and done the same level of mods im sure you'd be impressed to.

Originally Posted by Vern

My old d1 ES tdi had $72k price tag on it according to the books i had. And it wasn't anywhere near as flash as a d2/3/4/5 or even a range rover at the time.

Not doubting it, but RRP was $65k, still written in the front of a book I have when deciding but. But also red book prices confirmed them, where I got the D2 prices (but did look at D2s new as well before buying the Defender second hand, looked at new D2s on run out and the new D3 in 2005. They actually told ne they could even bring the 97 D1 ES down to around $60K if I wanted the demo ES or $85K for the Rangie, but still out of my comfortable repayment zone. Our local dealer was very keen to sell cars when I bought ours and shaved margins to make them more attractive.
Like I said what was odd is the way prices were higher in 94 and actually came down in 97, likely the Aus $ value.
$143k in anyone's language for what should be a mid tier vehicle is still a lot of money and rules a lot of people out. The devaluation on these will be horrendous I reckon.

Originally Posted by 1nando

Rammy be honest and tell me a rough estimate of what its cost you to to run 33s. I had a good look at one in the car park and mate i cant see 33s fitting under it without a host of rubbing issues.

As for IFS suspension, yes it does have some areas of benefit however you can't beat solid axles for rutted and rocky terrain. Solid axles provide a smoother more calculated ride over obstacles. Solid axles allow for a much stronger drivetrain setup. I run ashcroft cvs which are guaranteed with upto 35s. An IFS truck will never be as strong as a solid axle vehicle.
The d5 has air suspension or whatever its called and thats why i wont buy it for my idea of offroad. There are obviously other reasons aswell such as stupid shape, too many overhanging/bloated panels and of course the price tag.
The level of modification to your rok is far beyond that of a standard one, im sure that your rig has had over 10k spent on it just to accommodate the larger tyres and suspension to suit, and keeping in mind everything that broke along the way. The other thing is that the lack of a transfer case makes it not as good of road. I can put my puma into 1st low and its so slow that even down a hill i could get out and walk next to it (not that i would, but you get my point).
Yes i gramt you that your Rok is a well "setup" truck, but its "setup" so when comparing it to other vehicles make it a even comparison. Im twin locked with a 10k drivetrain; would it be fair for me to compare it to a standard puma......of course not. D90 Orkney (Damo) on hear has a very impressive 90 puma thats modified heavily and has some of the best flex ive seen on any fender ever (youtube it). Would it be a fair comparison to compare it to my 110. Corse not! He'd get through a lot of places id get stuck.
Modification when done correctly is great and you should be stoked you have a great setup. Had you bought a puma and done the same level of mods im sure you'd be impressed to.

All i have done to fit the 33" is remove the front mudflaps, and use a heat gun on a 50c sized section of the inner guards to heat and squash it back about 10mm.

There was still very minor and inconsequential rubbing when turning at a specific angle and compression of suspension, until i did the lift and that went away.

I agree it doesnt look like they would fit se easy at the front but heaps and heaps of amarok guys have now done it so its pretty much an exact science.

My suspension mods are custom but available and all fitted runs at less than $3k. It provides smooth and controlled ride over rutted and rocky terrain. The lower control arms and bushes are mostly beefy.

After doing heaps of serious/extreme(?) stuff one of my cv's started clicking under strain at 60k and so i replaced it. It is said that it is easier to replace a cv than a diff so upgraded cv's are not particularly recommended. Amaroks have done Dakar, they are mostly pretty tough.

The std rok front bar isnt suitable for serious offroading although many try, but it seems that many defender owners replace the front bar anyway, putting both cars in the same boat.

Sill protection is basically a must if you want to get serious.

I have run the car up to gvm but not over and first gear in the auto has done the job, but reverse in the auto is another story. The manual has low range, but the auto impresses people offroad when they drive it.

I would not be happy with a Puma no matter what i did with it because of certain fundamentals. The car has some great features that i cherish, but overall doesnt stack up to my fussy standards...