Land Rover is dead... Long live land rover!

**blackrangie** · 19th November 2019, 07:35 AM

Originally Posted by scarry

What was their other option,produce something that won’t sell to the masses?

That wouldn’t be a good business decision.

That’s the way the company has gone,there is nothing anyone can do about it.

If we listened to some on here we would still be riding horses to work.

They could have continually updated the old vehicle,but sales were very poor,and there were many other issues with it,so it was dropped.

Make something similar to old model,that wouldn’t have sold well either.

And that market is very small,what is left of it is taken mainly by the 70 series,LR would have had virtually no chance of cracking it.

And many are saying it’s going as well,but that has been said for the last 10 yrs,it keeps soldiering on.

Sure there are few things not to like with the new model,but every vehicle is a compromise in some way.It is built for a world market,every market is slightly different,and here the LR market is tiny compared with their overall sales.
So one would have to presume our market here wasn’t taken into much consideration when it was built.

Fair comment, but i would change the last sentence to: "some buyers in our market have not yet been taken into consideration" (70 series buyers)

In terms of the vehicle build, if i didn't think it was tested and built to last in the Australian environment, I can assure you myself and others would not have put our hard earned down.

I have spent quite a large amount of time investigating and studying, others flew Frankfurt to see in person. The testing i have seen + the underlying strength of structure and components along with ability for continual over the air improvement gives me a lot of confidence it will do very well in our market and markets like Africa.

One thing that will be interesting is the continual shock monitoring to avoid shock failure on congregations along with the strongest axles ever on a LR and updated steering system/susp components

The cooling system with its seperate coolers + being tested in dubai should also be stellar in places like the deep sand of fraser on a 35 degree day or traversing the dunes of the outback on a 40+ degree day.

The wading depth of close to a meter + IP67 electricals along with what looks to be high quality engine bay wiring along with double rubberized flooring + proper recovery points front and rear give me the confidence to head to places like cape York or the high country.

In many ways in my eyes the new defender could become the ultimate future proof Australia touring vehicle. To be fair to LR have done everything in their power in my eyes to make that possible, not just in our market, but 150+ others.

Quite an achievement in so many ways. When i saw the first post in this thread, in the interests of Fair Go, im gunna stick up for LR here.

**scarry** · 19th November 2019, 08:13 AM

Originally Posted by blackrangie

Fair comment, but i would change the last sentence to: "some buyers in our market have not yet been taken into consideration" (70 series buyers)

Yes correct,but I would also add,LC200 and late model Patrol buyers.

Main reasons as I have said before,
Small Diesel engine,
Lack of room behind second row seats,
Fuel tank size,particularly as many tow huge vans.

Anyway,after market guys may sort out fuel tank.

Other issues,may get sorted with time,and arrival of 130.

As said,every vehicle is a compromise.

**manic** · 19th November 2019, 08:39 AM

Originally Posted by scarry

If we listened to some on here we would still be riding horses to work.

The phrase is 'workhorse'. I don't think anyone here has ever suggested an actual horse replace the Defender.

Here's a modern workhorse that isn't horse.
Here's Everything You Need to Know About Workhorse, the EV Truck Maker That May Buy the GM Lordstown Plant

A tray back option is a requirement for any new vehicle looking to replace the Defender. Bare minimum. It might still happen...

**blackrangie** · 19th November 2019, 08:42 AM

Originally Posted by scarry

Yes correct,but I would also add,LC200 and late model Patrol buyers.

Main reasons as I have said before,
Small Diesel engine,
Lack of room behind second row seats,
Fuel tank size,particularly as many tow huge vans.

Anyway,after market guys may sort out fuel tank.

Other issues,may get sorted with time,and arrival of 130.

As said,every vehicle is a compromise.

Fair points

In this day and age small high capacity deisels seem to be the norm and sufficient for most people. I test drove the D240 D5 recently and was pleasantly surprised, no slouch indeed. However for me the straight 6 petrol def is on order as i like a bit of excitement.

The straight 6 diesel in the defender will come onboard they say next year so that takes care of any small diesel issues, i may even consider trading on that if it ends up being a winner and if especially if its hybrid, and i believe their is a possibility the LC200 will be dropping down to a 6 also?

For sure LC200 has a better tank but it also would drink a 3 or 4 L more per hundred in real worlds than a D200 or D240, so it needs a bigger tank.

I agree with you though the new def needs another 20-40L of fuel stored somewhere before anyone takes on some of the big outback stretches in oz, but that is easily overcome as you know.

Storage I believe won't be an issue imo as most familys are low numbered in AU so you have a lot of space in the rear in reality.

**manic** · 19th November 2019, 09:35 AM

Originally Posted by blackrangie

Fair comment, but i would change the last sentence to: "some buyers in our market have not yet been taken into consideration" (70 series buyers)

.

Add to that all the genuine Defender owners and businesses/services with utility fleets. Not to mention the Military and Police forces globally who used them - and still do!

LR have handed their balls to the 70series and gwagen pro.

Has the Defender brand name been glued to a family SUV? They will milk the pedigree of that name for all it's worth, but if the new vehicle cannot even attempt to take on the roles of its predecessors - the value of that brand will quickly diminish.

A tray back variant could be used for camperback overlanding and utility/service adaptations. You would continue to see custom defenders built up and adapted for purpose! So if they truely want to keep the Defender going - it would be crazy not to offer one.

**Gregz** · 19th November 2019, 09:47 AM

Originally Posted by blackrangie

..... to avoid shock failure on congregations ....

I suspect some congregations have had quite a few shocks recently.

**blackrangie** · 19th November 2019, 12:31 PM

Originally Posted by manic

Add to that all the genuine Defender owners and businesses/services with utility fleets. Not to mention the Military and Police forces globally who used them - and still do!

LR have handed their balls to the 70series and gwagen pro.

Has the Defender brand name been glued to a family SUV? They will milk the pedigree of that name for all it's worth, but if the new vehicle cannot even attempt to take on the roles of its predecessors - the value of that brand will quickly diminish.

A tray back variant could be used for camperback overlanding and utility/service adaptations. You would continue to see custom defenders built up and adapted for purpose! So if they truely want to keep the Defender going - it would be crazy not to offer one.

Defender only sold 5k to public and 15k to fleet, are you kidding it was a disaster for sales.

LC 70 series dual cab doesn't get fleet deals due to not being 5 star safety rated.

New defender will beat both, be more durable, safer and future proof, it will actually be able to be driven on roads in 5 yeara

**blackrangie** · 19th November 2019, 12:31 PM

Originally Posted by Gregz

I suspect some congregations have had quite a few shocks recently.

Land Rover is dead... Long live land rover!

**manic** · 19th November 2019, 01:27 PM

Originally Posted by blackrangie

Defender only sold 5k to public and 15k to fleet, are you kidding it was a disaster for sales.

So a tray back variant on this new platform would be a disaster for sales? What are you on about?

The series-defender was one of the most globally recognisable and successful go anywhere utility vehicles ever sold. 1948 - 2016.

They clearly want to sell off the back of that, why else would they continue the name. But so far the extension is not convincing. A ute version would help maintain the link. Right now its looking like a D4 replacement.

**101RRS** · 19th November 2019, 02:42 PM

Originally Posted by scarry

What was their other option,produce something that won’t sell to the masses?

That wouldn’t be a good business decision.

That’s the way the company has gone,there is nothing anyone can do about it.

If we listened to some on here we would still be riding horses to work.

They could have continually updated the old vehicle,but sales were very poor,and there were many other issues with it,so it was dropped.

Make something similar to old model,that wouldn’t have sold well either.

And that market is very small,what is left of it is taken mainly by the 70 series,LR would have had virtually no chance of cracking it.

And many are saying it’s going as well,but that has been said for the last 10 yrs,it keeps soldiering on.

Sure there are few things not to like with the new model,but every vehicle is a compromise in some way.It is built for a world market,every market is slightly different,and here the LR market is tiny compared with their overall sales.
So one would have to presume our market here wasn’t taken into much consideration when it was built.

I dont disagree with anything you have said - the slot where the new Defender is pitched against the lower 3/4 span of the D5 and the bottom end of the RRS - this new Defender is just an other model in the LR lineup with models competing against each other. I agree for a small company like JLR to continue a vehicle like the old Defender is probably not viable.

The D5 has been a bit of a failure - certainly has not captured the public's imagination, so maybe cut their losses with that and slot in the new Defender in as the new Discovery - and take one of the agricultural Tata vehicles - wave the magic wand to give it a make over looks wise, fit TR etc and slot it in the bottom of the line up as a real replacement for the old Defender.

I dont dislike the new Defender and would certainly consider one but it would be as a replacement for my RRS - having trouble understanding where it fits in the line up and its pricing.

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